 Use Street Index when buying gear at chargen? |
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 May 17 2005, 01:45 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 23-April 05 Member No.: 7,354  |
Does the street index of gear also apply when buying gear at character generation?
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May 17 2005, 01:51 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
No.
Although, most GMs limit the availbility to 8 and the max rating to 6. IE you can't buy rating 7 decrypter software, or an availability 24 Monowire Whip. |
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May 17 2005, 02:01 PM
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#3
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
One exception.
If you use your starting 3D6x100 cash, you apply Street Index |
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May 17 2005, 02:08 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 14-May 05 Member No.: 7,395 |
sometimes i wonder to myself...Myself i says, why not stick 'em with street index at generation...now THAT would make them respect some of those high cost toys.
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May 17 2005, 02:12 PM
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#5
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
But, then they points have less value.
If there is an item you don't want a character to have, don't let them start with it. |
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May 17 2005, 09:04 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 8-March 05 Member No.: 7,146 |
Now if you are going to stick em with street index, why not make em pay to have that cyberware they bought installed? (poor poor samies)
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May 17 2005, 11:13 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 14-May 05 Member No.: 7,395 |
boy, if i did that, my player that usually does sammies would b**** even more about how adepts are more powerful than he is....ack.
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May 17 2005, 11:36 PM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 18-March 05 Member No.: 7,188 |
Here's something I generally do. Leave it up to the players. With the simple rule that whatever they can get, so can the bad guys. That generally tones things down pretty quick.
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May 18 2005, 12:10 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 21-December 04 Member No.: 6,893 |
Monowire whips are NOT overpowered for the price. For pretty much the same cost, you can get a dikoted claymore. A troll adept with a dikoted claymore (why a large SWORD is considered a POLEARM, I do not know) can easily deal base damage of 12D. This is just plain scary. Of course, I'm pretty sure that Dikote has an availibility of more than 8, but it's scary regardless.
And you can't forget APDS rounds, either. Although they, in themselves, are hardly game-breaking, the fact that they're usually made of things like sintered tungsten instead of brass or lead mean that they're candidates for dikoting. Of course, it would cost a fortune, but a PC with a sniper rifle and a dikoted APDS round would'nt likely need more than one. (Who can argue with 15D damage?) |
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May 18 2005, 12:19 AM
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#10
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Ooooh crap. Lets not let Raygun see that post. ;) That is one helluva can of worms you opened with that statement, teapot. |
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May 18 2005, 01:35 AM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
The biggest advantage of a monofilament whip over a claymore (assuming big whopping troll dose the welding) is consealability, you cant hide a clamour, also the whip is very useful in the hands of a low strength character, but then so is a shotgun.
Edward |
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May 18 2005, 01:40 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 14-May 05 Member No.: 7,395 |
i thought besides the concealabilty...the halving of impact armor kinda rocks as well with the whip....
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May 18 2005, 02:14 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 21-December 04 Member No.: 6,893 |
Yes, but claymores are a bit easier to get a liscense for. Plus, all you need to do is find a theatre playing LotR, and duck in. You'll be invisible amonst the cosplayers. Also, the halving of impact armor is nice, but a troll with basic bioware or adept powers can easily be dealing 16D or more. And you get the nifty bonuses pertaining to barriers and the like. That said, I'm going to try my hand at an effective whip-using adept, perhaps a dwarf. It's pretty hard to ignore 13 dice rolled in conjunction with a weapon that already does 10S in the first place. (An added bonus is found in the fact that, by showing this to the GM, he's a lot more likely to allow me to use the Hand of God.) And there's still the problem of the big-shot PC who carries around a sporting rifle loaded with teftlon-coated dikoted APDS slugs. They'd be roughly fifty nuyen EACH, but 10D damage with the ability to ignore light armor and no inherent explosive properties is pretty scary. And because they're hunting weapons, it's easier to use the "goin' huntin'" exuse. |
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May 18 2005, 02:55 AM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
The problem with using Street Index at char-gen is twofold.
First, characters like street samurai, deckers, and riggers already require too much math for adding up all of their gear, computing their Essense, etc. Making them have to multiply everything by a different percentage, for each piece of gear, would take it past the point of ridiculous. Secondly, like most house rules, it messes up game balance by penalizing certain types of characters far more than other types of characters. If someone is playing an adept, or a shaman with high Attributes and skills but no foci, then they don't suffer at all from this rule. I guess it's fine if you want less sammies and techies, and more awakened characters, but you might wind up with practically nothing but awakened characters. And if you try to restrict the numbers of awakened characters, then the mundanes will complain about how screwed over and weak their characters are. Personally, I think it's a bad idea. |
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May 18 2005, 03:03 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
Yeah, my GM enforces that idea pretty strictly. The other players and I have agreed that we're not even going to just guns, we're going to use fuckin' KNIVES. Not even a survival knife, just knives. We'd punch 'em, but that deals str(M) Stun and a knife does str(L), so it'd be stronger. Also, we're not going to buy any cyberware or magic or be anything but humans. After all, if we have nothing, neither will the NPCs. In addition, we're all spending our skills on the most worthless skills we can. So we're taking combat skills, like Eye Gun, Oral Gun, Oral Strike, Suborbital Piloting, and similar things. This way, the NPCs will also be gimped and be defaulting to quickness when they bust out the pen knives. We'd use something bigger, but I'm worried he might give us some power, so the other NPCs would get it too. So what if this means we can't do anything but knife fight other people? If we use anything bigger, so will the GM! |
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May 18 2005, 03:26 AM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
i still say the trew power of the mono whip is in the hands of a weakling. Skill 2(4) 2 points of combat pool and the chance of hurting yourself is quite low, but in spite of your str 2 you are able to cut down samys with the best of them. (thinking typical claw samy without close combat)
Edward |
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May 19 2005, 01:47 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Well, tell him that if physads are so powerful, and he's getting so bent out of shape over power, why dosen't he play one ? I mean, in addition to the whole snort snicker thing about physads having more raw power than sammies at chargen. Few things annoy me more as a GM than players whining about really stupid things like that. Power level is really a nerve for me. It's so easy to min max and make an ubercharacter in Shadowrun that there's really no excuse for complaining about power levels. Whenever I make a character I actually try to make weak characters so that I have more of a challenge as a player and I need to play tactics up to the hilt rather than rely on stat bonuses to defeat the opposition. |
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May 19 2005, 01:50 AM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Heh, I actually hate APDS. :P When I make a PC, I no longer buy APDS ammo at chargen. I restrict myself to Regular. |
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May 20 2005, 02:25 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
I think it was somewhat of a joke. I think we all agree that adepts have much more growth potential than a cyber-character, and that cyber-characters generally can start the game with a lot more power to begin with....even using only basic cyber... I would play an adept, and have thought about it (even made up a few attempts). Not for "Powergaming" but for the fact that sammies can get a little depressing because there essence and body are all gone when you start the game ussaully, and adepts have unlimited growth in magic points. Its equivalent to a sammie being able to spend karma on more essence (and getting that essence filled with cyber for free). So if your looking for a character that grows withthe game, sammies are not the best choice...But I've found that I'm just hooked on cyber-ware....Even the lure of magical power isn't enough to turn me away from the sheer coolness implants... |
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May 21 2005, 01:18 AM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Well, Street Sams can grow following chargen. They spend their karma on skills and attributes directly, and nuyen on getting their old stuff taken out and better stuff put in. At the moment, my street sam is getting a Rating 1 Dermal Sheath and a Smartlink installed, both used Alphaware (Smartlink in Cyberleg), which will leave him with .12 Essence. When he saves up about 80k, he will go in for another round of cybersurgery, get his Muscle Enhancement 1 taken out, upgrade his Dermal Sheath to rating 2, have another set of Improved Hand Razors installed in his other hand, get both sets of hand razors dikoted, get Rating 3 Strength Enhancement for his legs installed, and get Rating 4 Muscle Augmentation and Rating 1 Muscle Toner implanted. He'll probably also get a set of Climbing Claws installed as well. All of this is Used Alphaware. After all of that, he'll have .02 Essence, assuming nobody botches the surgery. If he can find a Delta clinic... |
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May 21 2005, 02:11 AM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
Large two-handed swords have more in common with polearms than they do with single-handed swords, handling-wise. Especially the Western ones, which frequently have a blunt ricasso reaching as much as halfway down the blade, for use as an extended grip in close fighting. I have a lot of complaints about the way SR3 divides up the weapons skills, but the classification of claymores as pole arms is not among them.
Check those legality codes again. Licenses for claymores and monofiliment whips are equally difficult to acquire. It's impossible to get either one. |
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May 25 2005, 11:39 PM
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#22
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Target Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 8-February 05 Member No.: 7,066 |
Here's a Street Index question. SI is described as the added costs for using 'shadowy' means of obtaining hard to get items for the SINless. (But of course I'm paraphrasing). So, what if a customer wants to buy something legitimately. For example; Enchanting Gear is not illegal as far as I know. So if one of my runners wants to buy Enchanting Gear in a regular fashion, do they pay the Street Index price? Or the regular price and wait the full amount of time.
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May 26 2005, 12:29 AM
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#23
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Did you sleep through math class, buddy? M(3 boxes) damage would bring them down faster than L(1 box) damage. Even though its just Stun, they'd still be down. Finish them off with your knife while they're unconscious. |
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May 26 2005, 12:58 AM
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#24
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
You may have missed that it was sarcasm. That was a response to all the "if the PCs have it, so do the NPCs" argument of balance. The idea being, if the PCs don't have anything, neither do the NPCS. |
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May 26 2005, 01:11 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
I didn't phrase that very well. Rephrased for clarity, it would be: We would punch them, but that's better than using a knife, so we're going to use knives instead. |
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