[LooseAlliances] Loose Alliances Options

[Canis]

Hi, this is my first post, but I’ve been lurking for about a year on and off. I finished reading LA a few days ago and I liked it. I put off buying it for a long time because of many of the complaints but I finally relented and bought it. Personally I didn’t really think there was strong European feel. Capt Chaos does use the term ‘pond’ a few times, but he uses it in reference to Europeans so I didn’t think it was too unusual (i.e. a few months ago my friend returned from a trip to Britain, when he returned I asked him how his trip across the pond was). I’ve traveled abound Europe a bit and really at a basic level the people weren’t any different than Americans. IMHO the difference between individuals is often greater than the difference between cultures. But that’s just my take, I have several close European friends so maybe I just don't notice these things. [On a side note, I think most entertainment does translate well between cultures, several top American shows are based on British shows, many popular novels and video games are created outside the US, and look how popular Japanese entertainment is in the US and you can't get much more of a foreign culture, the reverse is also true in Japan.] It’s true that few of the groups are centered around Seattle, but I don’t think that’s such a bad thing. After hearing about the NeoCommie chapter I was afraid to read it and I almost skipped it, but it was actually rather entertaining (imho). And even if you hate it, it is only about 2 ½ pages.

The first chapter (which is about various political groups) I thought was interesting. Of course my group loves to debate politics/economics/religion and many other topics, we often have opposite opinions on things. This chapter sparked an interest in them to bring some politics into the game; I foresee some very interesting role-playing. A lot of my players have been playing fairly mindless criminals for a while, so I’m happy about this.

The second chapter “Hands of the Elite” was ok. It was nice to see the UN, and I think the big flurry about the line “the UN prefers efficiency” was taken out of context. I didn’t think the UN described in LA was too realistic, but I did think it was realistic given the Shadowrun fictional background. And the author does try to explain why the circa 2060 UN looks so odd to modern eyes. The section on Aegis Cognito was kind of nice; I think I might work them into a plot sometime down the road. I also liked hearing more about the aristocrats and learning more about the Grand Tour, I think I might also use that sometime.

The third chapter “Mystic Secrets” was the real reason I bought the book. My players are very interested in the mystic secrets of SR. Right now I’m in the process of creating an archeological based mission, but I haven’t worked out the details yet. And learning a bit more about magical groups and how they work is nice.

The fourth chapter “Keepers of the Faith” better than I expected. I really liked the Vigila Evangelica. I’m thinking of creating a side campaign sometime and having the players create members of the church and hunt paranormal threats. The rest of the chapter dealt with Islamic groups. This is an area that interests me, so I was happy that it received a fair number of pages. Personally this section didn’t seem like it added too much new information (though now I’m even more certain Ibn Eisa is a Shidem). But I thought it was reasonably well done.

The last chapter “DIY Crime” was ok. Brokerage X seemed a bit dull, and this is coming from a guy who loves business (I’m a subscriber to Barron’s and the Wall Street J. and I’m working on my MBA; heck my favorite SR fictional character is the Chromed Accountant). Maybe I didn’t give it a fair shake; I will probably go back and read it again to see if I can get any ideas. The chapter also talks about Tamanous and a group of Dragon watchers. These sections gave me a few ideas I might use. Finally the chapter also talks about a few of the major SR groups out there.

Overall, I though the book was worth my time and money. This book actually gave me more ideas than most, too many in fact. I think most GMs can fit in several of these groups into their campaigns with minor alterations. The book wasn’t perfect though and I wouldn’t rate it as a ‘must have’, but I think it was well written for the most part (though the editing was pretty sloppy, but they’re probably very busy right now) and I thought it had some good ideas.

[NeoJudas]

I have to agree there on that very last part ... the editing of the LA book SUCKED!!!!!!!! I have been reading SR now since pretty much it's inception (missed that by three months) but the quality of the grammar (and I know the difference between "game speak" and "grammar") was just horrible. I'm not saying I'm a pro here, but the editing quality was just absolutely horrendous.

Please understand that I also realize that this may not be a FanPro US problem but may be a publisher issue because of conversations I had with Mike M. way back in the day.

[Pistons]

Errr... publisher issue? I'm sorry, but what's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

[Penta]

I'm usually opinionated...So I'm going to keep up that tradition here, given that I got LA via UPS a while back...

Going chapter by chapter....

Actually, before I begin, an overarching thing. Synner, I must agree with NeoJ. Whoever the editor was here should have been shot. The editing was horrible. Infuriating, actually; Spelling and basic grammar mistakes abounded, seemingly. This is, hands down, the worst-edited book I've read in a long, long, long time. For anything, not simply game books.

Political Agitators

This chapter was actually decent, on a "gamefic" level. Maybe not useful, but not a bad read. I do think, however, that it got way, way, way too shrill at points, even accounting for the POVs.

Highlight of the section: The communists/neo-commies.

Oh my God. Oh my God. :rotfl: I nearly peed myself multiple times reading that, it was so funny.

Hands of the Elite:

This worked surprisingly well. I have disagreements with some of the changes to the UN, but no big ones. (I do think, however, UNATCO could have been left aside. It served no purpose, unlike the rest of the UN.)

Aegis Cognito had me squirming with joy...But if only mention were given of it's lower-priced contemporaries...

Mystic Relics

Less good. This was a weak section, really.

I dunno, it just seemed...tired.

Keepers of the Faith

OK. The Vigilia had me giddy. Synner, I apologize, this came out GREAT. :notworthy:

However, I wanted to hurt someone with the Islamic bits.

Namely, there were some very basic mistakes made...

1. Where the hell are the Sufis?
2. Where...the...hell...are...the...Druze?
3. OK. You managed to ignore folk Islam (as practiced in, say, most of Africa and Asia). That annoys.

But...a theocratic Islamic regime in Cyprus?:|

Cyprus, that's mostly Greek and Christian by something like an 80-20 Greek-Turkish split? :|

There was no research done for this section, was there? Not even the basic research?

4. Confirming that there was no research done...The Bohras are not the Assassins...They're a subsect of the Isma'ili, previously seen on the same page.

DIY Crime

This had the potential to be such a good section, but...Ugh.

Brokerage X is entirely too high-level to ever be useful to all but the most epic campagins. The prices and eligibility minimums quoted are a bit...steep. Fittingly, yes, but...Oy.

I could have, I think, done without the runner groups like Assets. Assets especially.

DAMAGE and the Smokers Club were interesting though.

[NeoJudas]

[NeoJudas]

... and now that I'm back and done reading the book in general.

I pick up with Keeper's of the Faith.

The section gave some considerable potential for nearly all of the contained material therein. I do admit, I appreciate the "Padre Pedro" material as it showed if nothing else that even "all powerful groups" can still have problems detaining some people if those people have the will and know-how enough to evade them. Even if just for a little while.

I have to agree with Penta with regards to the Islamic section(s). I started getting the feeling I had read some of the material before and after a bit realized a chunk of it seemed to have been lifted out of a "primer" I had read two years ago. I say at least "seemed to". It was odd to have seen the Islamic populations where they were, such as Penta's mentioned Cyprus material. I do know that there are members of the Islamic Faith in Cyprus now (modern day) mind you, but they are most certainly the scant minority as compared to the older/established culturally faithful/ingrained.

It was also strange to not have a bit more material in this regard if for no other reason than the heavyweight that the entirety of the Islamic Embodiment is at this point in time. There are at least as many variations of Islam as there are Christianity (okay, maybe that's a bit extreme but it is the truth).

I would have personally enjoyed an islamic pronunciation key or examples in at least a couple places. For instance the Isma'ili, I had to verify how I was saying it with someone here locally from Algeria who is a follower of Islam and even then I got the feeling it was heavily slanged in enunciation.

DIY Crime

Okay, I admit it ... several sections from here are immediately usable by our game group here but I also have to admit that most people would refer to our games as "Epic" (if they were being polite). I greatly enjoyed the mentionings however of the various organizations/groups that get involved in things and at what level/instances they usually do. It will help us at least serve as a primer/comparison sheet here.

Game Materials

Oh thank you for all the initiatory groups insofar as the write-ups/numbers. Especially the update for the IOND, that one in particular is needed right *now* in our games ... an instance of perfect timing.

Some of the examples of "Unholy Alliances" were kinda interesting, and if nothing else gave me and the other two GM's (and some of the players) ideas as to where "System Failure" could draw upon if needs be. (the Neo-Communists just literally *SCREAMED* Deus to me).

I was however *NOT* satiated with the one or two superficial references to the Black Lodge. With that many magical groups, several of very substantial size, I just constantly find it strange that the Black Lodge (we call it "the Big Dog House" here) did not get updated as well.

Some of what I refer to as Game Hooks were helpful, but in truth if you read through LA like I did they were already being considered in the back of my head (shrugs).

Overall, even with the editing issues the book had ... as a game fic work it is very helpful to me and I personally would advise GM's and any more involved players to purchase the book. It definitely helps gives what most of people basically take for granted ... that being "world content". Definitely easier even for the highest experienced characters to be imagined better.

By the same token, I would NOT consider it for every SR player to purchase especially a newer player or a player in a game with little to no exploration beyond a given Sprawl/Metroplex. The person who made the remark about "It's all about Seattle" (my paraphrasement, I admit it) for instance should just ignore the book. But for other people ... definite read.

[Paul]

So this is what you were talking about, I think....Okay now it makes sense.

[Ryu]

I bought the book a few days ago and did read most of it (all except "political agitators"). Great content!

Whatever your campaign focus may be, at least part of it will be useable.

I did like mystic relics and keepers of the faith, but we have a magocentric campaign. Very, very nice.
Brokerage X is also good, but the average ROI will be adjusted downwards, preferably by incorporating a risk of capital loss.


On the editing: I bought the german version, and was quite shocked. Many very obvious and painful errors. Painful enough to delay buying SR4 until 3rd printing or something, as we likely won´t switch before Street Magic and the cyberware book are available either way.

[hermit]

Haven't we already seen that with SoE? :roll:

That's why I only buy English books anymore. I could care less about AGS-specific stuff anyway. I greatly dislike the setting, myself.

[Grinder]

The last releases all had been awfully bad edited. So i go with hermit and buy only english books.

[Adam]

[NeoJudas]

[Synner]

Note there are several South American countries besides Argentina and Amazonia still on the Sixth World map including a sliver of Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia and a few more... also note that Florida was Spanish for a very long time.

[Ryu]

The question is, how old is quartus? Rejecting any location without that information will not be possible, IMO.

[SL James]

Considering that Spanish influence extended as far north as Washington and as far east as New Orleans (Plus Florida and southern Georgia), I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that it's in the old U.S.

[Ancient History]

[hermit]

Click here for a good start on information on this. And note that New Spain was centered on what in SR is Aztlan ... maybe Quartius was moved when Aztlan became what it is now? If so, I'd suggest some Californian or Floridan city.

Hey, it may even be in the Carribean.

[Grinder]

If i had a secret library i would place it in a tourist resort. At least the people working there can als enjoy there life. :D

[Ryu]

Workforce satisfaction is not on the HCCs agenda, I´m afraid. ;)

On the other hand, if they know that I think that they would never.... you don´t suppose Disney Land is just a convenient cover for Qartius?

[Penta]

Thought: Perhaps its in Boston?