Edge, Potential? Options

[Geko]

Right off the bat, below is not a question of whether tactical pools were better than what they are apparently being 'replaced' by. It is a critical look into what we know, in order to make sense of these changes. Please help by picking it apart, etc. Alot of you know the rules of SR3 better than I do. That said...

Does the FAQ section on the edge attribute signify the potential for an element of strategy to be maintained in SR4?

It says that it will be extra useful for non-cybered mundanes. That's a clue.

We know that character creation will be point-based, that skills+attribute vs. TN5 is the core mechanic, and that there are more attributes and skills than before. Only one of those attributes is a true wild-card (edge). There are no attribute-derived tactical pools.

So, cyber Samurai-style characters will be spending their build points primarily on gear and the rest directly on the attributes/skills they need for combat. Awakened characters will spend theirs on the magic attribute, the appropriate mental attributes, and the necessary magical skills (of which there are more). Non-cybered mundanes therefore presumably have 'leftovers' to spend on edge, after they take the skills and attributes they want.

Fairly obvious.

But...this doesn't mean that sammies and mages/adepts won't have access to similar "pools" of extra dice.

Take, for example, the adept's Combat Sense power. It adds dice to the combat pool under SR3. What is to say that the new Combat Sense won't still add the ability to use X number of extra dice during combat tests?

What is to say that the VCR doesn't add extra dice to a "hacker's" reaction+driving skill rolls in the same manner as it applied them to the control pool under SR3?

In other words, they might have simply done away with the abstraction of the tactical pools by applying the same concept directly to the skill+attribute roll. In which case, they wouldn't have done away with the strategic flexibility of the tactical pools at all. Right?

[Bigity]

That all depends on how it actually works.

However, if Edge is the attempt to recreate Combat Pool, I am very much opposed to "weighting" it for mundane use. As this is a classless game, for the most part, no one "class" should be more "tactical" in combat then any other "class".

If the various pools are replaced by other mechanics (streamlining???), then that's different.

[Jrayjoker]

We are utterly unformed as to the application of Edge, except that it performs similary to Karma Pool according to one of the FAQs

[Geko]

I don't usually like to do this, but I think I was unclear (I'm at work), so I will clarify.

Edge has been said to replace the karma pool. As in, it is a wild-card that can be used to aid any roll.

Since they are saying that edge will be extra important for non-cybered mundanes, that seems to imply that cyber-freaks and awakened characters WILL have their own sorts of tactical dice.

As in, bonuses from cyberware, powers, spells, etc., which mundanes won't have access to, which is why edge is important for them. Same as before, except mundanes are now actually competetive.

The "mechanic" that replaces tactical pools is just that those extra dice (from whatever source) apply directly to the attribute+skill equation. In other words, attribute+skill+bonus dice vs. TN5. That is streamlined, yet it does not do away with the tactical flexibility offered by the tactical pools of SR3.

[Earthwalker]

Edge being more usful to mundanes could mean that a characters max edge is equal to something like

9 - subjects essense - subjects magic attribute.

Or something like that so a none cybered mundane can gain more points in edge and so have more chance to use it in different situations.

of course it clearly could not mean that too.

[Kagetenshi]

How does it imply that at all? Non-cybered mundanes obviously get the benefits of neither magic nor cyber/bioware, leaving Edge to be extra important as their "balancing factor". No need for bonus dice from anywhere.

~J

[Geko]

Kagatenshi,

To answer your question, the benefits of cyber/bio must be along the same lines as the benefits of edge, if they are to balance.

If the TN is fixed, what else will they do besides add dice?

[Jrayjoker]

[Kagetenshi]

[mfb]

that's what the playtesters i've talked to have said--edge is random, whereas cyber/bio/magic are more dependable.

[Geko]

[Kagetenshi]

If they're added directly, there's no tactics involved. It's like Enhanced Articulation—it adds one die to everything physical, but there's no decision-making past whether or not to get the 'ware. The dice are always added. If you perform one physical action in a combat turn you get the one bonus die for that action, whereas if you perform twenty somehow you get the bonus die for all twenty. You also can't, for instance, hold that die back to dodge with.

~J

[Critias]

Which translates directly to "yet another bonus you don't have to think about to use right." Yippee.

[Ellery]

Karma pool is limited and refreshes slowly. Edge will be even more limited than karma pool, and if edge was a pool that refreshed every combat turn, they'd have just said as much. Thus, edge will also refresh slowly. There is some strategy in using a small, slowly refreshing set of dice, but not that much.

[Geko]

But that is not how things like the VCR work. Or Combat Sense. They added control pool and combat pool dice, respectively, which is why I mentioned them.

I do see what you mean, though. And at this point, the question comes down to 'what will they change it to: more like enhanced articulation, or more like what Geko hopes they'll change it to (ie: the bonuses only refresh every turn).' Which is impossible to answer.

Thank you for clarifying.

[Jrayjoker]

[Kagetenshi]

[mfb]

eh. strategy with a small, slow-refreshing dice pool is largely limited to "am i going to die/are we going to lose if i don't use it now?"

i don't see how a pool that refreshes every round could be comparable in function to karma pool; therefore, i'm pretty sure that Edge won't refresh every round.

[Jrayjoker]

We don't have enough data to even speculate reasonably at this point.

[mfb]

yes, we do. we have the FAQs, and we have several freelancer comments that indicate how Edge works.

[Jrayjoker]

Whats the refresh rate?
What does it apply to stats, rerolls, etc.?
Can it be rolled in lieu of lower stat or does it supplement rolls with additional dice?
I may have missed the answers to the specific application of the Edge stat, but all I see is speculation without supporting evidence at this time.

[mfb]

if we were speculating on those questions, that would be a reasonable objection to raise. we're not.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Geko]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

You're welcome.