Ranged Combat, the SR3R way Options

[Random Voices]

[Kagetenshi]

It's different for targets with armor 2 or less. I'm not sure if that's an important demographic, but it means they don't have the same effect.

~J

[mfb]

[Kagetenshi]

Yeah, there's also all that. Barriers, too.

~J

[nezumi]

[Herald of Verjig...]

Almost sounds like what variable staging was supposed to represent. Instead of just a rule that rifles work against 3 less of the targets armor, how about introducing the possibility of other things with different default armor penetration. For nostalgia, we can toss that in like the variable staging in the damage codes.

9M would still be 9M because a Predator doesn't get a piercing bonus, but some rifles may be 6M3 to indicate the 3 point armor reduction and an experimental rail-needle may be 2L10.
My other question is, does the hardened armor have to beat the power before penetration effect or after?

[Austere Emancipa...]

I don't think the variable staging really has to do with the same sort of effect. You don't have to hit far better with a rifle to score a kill -- and if you do, that is easily simulated with Power and DL.

For hardened armor, it should definitely be armor rating modified by the penetration compared to effective Power.

[Herald of Verjig...]

[nezumi]

I was testing out the shotgun rules where all armor counts as hardened (so if the shotgun doesn't overcome the armor rating, it does nothing, keeping mind that shot already has the -2 to power due to being flechette). It occurs to me that the problem here is the weapon either does a base of Serious damage, or none at all. So my shotgunner had 10 successes against two fellows, one with 8 points of armor, one with 7. The one with 7 had to resist 2D damage, with 8 extra successes. The fellow with 1 more point of armor didn't have to resist anything. A bit of a harsh dichotomy. Thoughts?

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Wounded Ronin]

[Sir_Psycho]

Do we want to do anything about the fact that Shotguns are all semi-automatic? What happened to pump action!? Did they stop making pump shotguns in 2010?

Also, while flipping through the Firearm Design rules, you cannot create an semi-automatic sniper rifle. Don't semi-automatic sniper rifles exist irl? Do we want to do anything about that?

What about the rule of no Smartgoggles/Smartlinks/Laser sights etc when dual-wielding pistols or smgs. It makes sense that you can't use a scope, but the rest don't seem unreasonable at all. Should we scrap it?

[Herald of Verjig...]

Which firearm design rules are you referring to?
Raygun's has sniper rifles start as SA, and the CC guide has sniper rifles start out as SA.

Was there some other guide mentioned that I missed?

[Sir_Psycho]

Oops. I read those wrong when I was flipping through. It said Design Options: Firing Mode (Single Shot only).

I thought it meant you could only design them to be single shot. My bad.

[Wounded Ronin]

What *I* think would make sniper rifles more fun would be if bolt action rifles had a small bonus to hitting targets at Extreme range.

[nezumi]

[Sphynx]

Sorry, I don't have the book with me, but I could have sworn that you could use smartguns with dual pistols, but it would only apply to 1 of the pistols, and only if you were firing them both at the same time instead of taking turns... It's possible we just house ruled it, but our speed-character has a smartlink with 2 induction pads, and usually uses one like suppressive fire and aims with the other using the smartlink. o.O

However, if it's true that you can't use a smartlink at all while dual-wielding, that rule should be changed. Since Smartlinks were defined as adding crosshairs into your vision, obviously you should only get the bonus for 1 of the guns though per simple-action.

[Shockwave_IIc]

[Link]

[nezumi]

[Herald of Verjig...]

I say that the catalog had the wrong product name and stats for the description and image that were on the page. The wageslave responsible for the editing has been sacked and the catalog provider has spend thousands on damage control to try to get everyone to forget about that incident.

[Sir_Psycho]

Unfortunately, due to a human resources bungle, he was hired to write the weapon descriptions for the Remingtons in the 3rd edition BBB aswell. :grinbig:

I think MA (manual action) should be single shot, and loading another round (whether through a sliding bolt or pump) should be another simple action. I'd be in favour of changing the Remington 990 (infact, anything with remington in the title!) to MA, and maybe even breaking from the description of the Defiance T-250 and making that pump aswell.

Shotguns as they are are totally deadly. Having some in pump evens it a little bit. But it doesn't change the fact that the SA/BF shotguns are instadeathmachines.

I think we should allow the smartlink bonus to apply to both weapons (as long as you're using two cables or induction pads). The penalty is already in that you suffer stacking recoil. On that note, fixed and folding stocks should provide no recoil compensation when dual wielding.

[nezumi]

[Sir_Psycho]

Then we need to change something with the difficulty of shooting. Dual wielding should be powerful, but your hit rate should be lower.

Some things we could introduce:
-Recoil on the first shot
-Double all uncompensated recoil (hell, we do it with BF shotguns)
-Range reduced. Short becomes medium, Medium becomes long etc.

[Kagetenshi]

IMO, the approach is to weaken Ambidexterity, then make Smartlinks the best way to compensate for the penalties. Under the "active" interpretation of Smartlink operation, which is the only one that allows the limited simsense rig and Essence cost to make sense, that's the most rational approach.

~J