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> Lightbearers in SR, How much could they do?
Hoondatha
post Jun 2 2005, 05:49 AM
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Ok, everyone, time for a hypothetical question. A 15th Circle Earthdawn adept (I'll say Weaponsmith, just to pick one) that is also a 15th Circle Lightbearer suddenly appears in 2064. How many of the Lightbearer talent powers would you rule could be used in SR's magic-poor environment? For that matter, has it ever been hashed out how many Circles of an ED character would be "active," and what circle spells can be cast? Would there be any difference between the Lightbearer talent and all the character's other talents due to the Lightbearer talent being tied into the Great Pattern? Final question: if a Lightbearer uses Edge of Light on a bullet and promptly shoots a spirit with it, what would you rule happens?

Thanks. I've got opinions of my own on these (of course), but I value all input and freely admit that many of you know more than I do.
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Kagetenshi
post Jun 2 2005, 06:09 AM
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As for how many circles are active, it is apparently possible to netherwalk in the 2050s, so that ought to give you a general idea.

~J
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fistandantilus4....
post Jun 2 2005, 06:56 AM
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Harlequin did the sword effect in Hq:B, and I would assume that an edge of light would require an edged weapon. Have to check my ED: comp.

As for circles and spells.... I'd say anything could go. If there wasn't enough mana, try a power focus or power site. I'd assume there's a good reason that all the immortal types go for power sites (because I assume they don't need 5 extra dice for a test). I'd say things like the Veil and summoning the Wild Hunt, the barrier around Tibet, would all be in the high magic category.

Also, at the end of the first harlequin adventure, Harlequin and Ehran basically teleport, which I believe is a high circle lightbearer power (is that the one you were referring to Kage?).

Out of curiosity, how are you planning on carrying the character over?
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Kagetenshi
post Jun 2 2005, 07:35 AM
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That is indeed (stepping physically into the astral, moving there to the destination, and then stepping back out).

~J
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Hoondatha
post Jun 2 2005, 03:57 PM
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I'm not sure I will be bringing an ED character forward, it's just that I've been reading a lot of ED materials after being exclusively an SR guy, and I was wondering how the two would match up. I figured sending an ED character forward would be more charitable than sending a shadowrunner into the Fourth World.

Edge of Light states "any melee or missile weapon," which is why I'm curious about its effect with bullets. I didn't know about it being in Harlequin's Back, I'm trying hard to find that one (and the Dragonsheart Trilogy too), but so far haven't had any luck. This just adds one more reason I need to get it.
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Thistledown
post Jun 2 2005, 04:29 PM
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Bringing somebody from earthdawn to shadowrun would be pretty easy, actually. Just put him in a stasis bubble of some kind and stash him away somewhere. Some 8060 years later, the stasis spell drops, and he climbs out into a new world.

Sending someone back, however, would be a much more difficult trick.
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Hoondatha
post Jun 2 2005, 06:11 PM
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Or hey, some city could have tried to use the spell City in a Bottle to escape the Scourge and the bottle got lost. Huh. Now there's a rather epic SR adventure: find the bottle before everyone else can. A chance to trot out ALL of the hidden SR power groups as they fight over the magic of an Age of Legend city at its height. Hmm. Could work.
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fistandantilus4....
post Jun 2 2005, 08:30 PM
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Ahhh damn... now I'm going to have to use that in a game.

Imagine the problems with sending a character forward though. alk about culture shock. The only language they would be able to speak would be very bad Sperethial. Have to have the speak language talent.
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FlakJacket
post Jun 2 2005, 10:17 PM
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Its been a while, but weren't there quite a few similarities between the Lightbearers and the Mystic Crusaders from Threats and the other books?

QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
That is indeed (stepping physically into the astral, moving there to the destination, and then stepping back out).

Well that sounds like a seriously useful ability. Which book has information on this and the Lightbearers in general?
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Wireknight
post Jun 2 2005, 10:26 PM
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See, I thought I was being innovative when I had a character I play develop the ability to physically cross over to and from the astral plane (and metaplanes) as a top-tier unique metamagic. Damned Lightbearers, stealing my thoughts.
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Tziluthi
post Jun 2 2005, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (Thistledown)
Bringing somebody from earthdawn to shadowrun would be pretty easy, actually. Just put him in a stasis bubble of some kind and stash him away somewhere. Some 8060 years later, the stasis spell drops, and he climbs out into a new world.

Wouldn't the spell fizzle out with the low magic?
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FlakJacket
post Jun 2 2005, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE (Tziluthi)
Wouldn't the spell fizzle out with the low magic?

Have it done at a very strong power site- as the mana level drops the site still retains just enough to keep the spell active. And when the mana levels go back up, well lots of people are interested in powerful power sites and might go poking around them. :)
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SpasticTeapot
post Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
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QUOTE (Tziluthi)
QUOTE (Thistledown @ Jun 3 2005, 12:29 AM)
Bringing somebody from earthdawn to shadowrun would be pretty easy, actually.  Just put him in a stasis bubble of some kind and stash him away somewhere.  Some 8060 years later, the stasis spell drops, and he climbs out into a new world.

Wouldn't the spell fizzle out with the low magic?

If Dragons and IE's could survive the low-magic world, I imagine that someone was likely able to figure out a way to keep the spell going. Perhaps the person brought the sustaining/anchor focus with them into the bubble?

I, personally, like the idea of the world suddenly reappearing from a bottle. You'd have all the crazies who've been searching for atlantis constantly hounding the characters, and every magical group this side of anywhere trying to get the PCs to do their bidding. Plus, it's a great way to introduce all sorts of wacky magic to the game world without complaints from rules lawyers.
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Ancient History
post Jun 2 2005, 11:54 PM
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City in a Bottle would be a pain and the ass way to incorporate ED into SR. Parlainth (esp. the gateway), the lost Maracian city, a fragmentary metaplane, the people under the Hill...these are at least semi-reasonable. I honestly doubt a site of sufficient potency to maintain such a high-level spell exists.
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FlakJacket
post Jun 3 2005, 12:04 AM
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So just make it something diddly like petrify and you're set.
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fistandantilus4....
post Jun 3 2005, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
City in a Bottle would be a pain and the ass way to incorporate ED into SR. Parlainth (esp. the gateway), the lost Maracian city, a fragmentary metaplane, the people under the Hill...these are at least semi-reasonable. I honestly doubt a site of sufficient potency to maintain such a high-level spell exists.

I was actually thinking something like a city that had been 'bottled' to protect it from the Scourge, then stashed some place (like an alchera/hill people (from Book of Explr 2)/temple underthe artic) and never rediscovered. Then some group like the Atlanteans find it, and the IE's freak. Imagine what kind of chaos that could cause, name givers with knowledge of the 4th world reappearing in a city that would be hard to miss. Or worse, what if the city had been penetrated. That's not something they could allow. The whole point would be to secure the item and make sure that it's never opened, to avoid the chaos it would cause. At the same time dooming the inhabitants that may or may not be waiting to be saved.

Not to mentioon that they would also probably want any thread items. A run with lots of dragons, drakes, and elves. That's a scary scale of power to be running on.

I know it's a bit of a stretch of the imagination, and goes beyond the scope of a normal run ( and then some). Just thought it was an interesting idea.
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nick012000
post Jun 3 2005, 03:23 AM
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That sounds like a cool run. Odds are that the runners would open it, though. Then all hell really would break loose.

Oh, and don't forget the Great Dragons. Ol' Loffy would probably love to get his claws on that...
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nezumi
post Jun 3 2005, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE (Tziluthi)
QUOTE (Thistledown @ Jun 3 2005, 12:29 AM)
Bringing somebody from earthdawn to shadowrun would be pretty easy, actually.  Just put him in a stasis bubble of some kind and stash him away somewhere.  Some 8060 years later, the stasis spell drops, and he climbs out into a new world.

Wouldn't the spell fizzle out with the low magic?

Don't be silly. The space inside of the bubble is in stasis, remember? So it's still high magic.

Or cast the spell from the middle of the bubble. It's technically an instaneous spell, but it's frozen itself in the middle of casting. Until the spell ends, it can't end :P

If memory serves, some of the 'cities in a bottle' were sent off to other metaplanes, no? I seem to recollect in the scourge just before Earthdawn opens, at least one city went that way. I don't see why it couldn't come back from there.
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Hoondatha
post Jun 3 2005, 05:13 PM
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Wow. I was being semi-fascetious with the City in a Bottle reference, not really having any idea why the spell wouldn't wear off along with the magic level. Then I leave for a day and that problem gets solved. :)

For the record, Lightbearers are in the First Edition Earthdawn Companion. The edition's important, because they aren't in the second edition. Also, it isn't a discipline, but rather a special talent that can be added to any discipline. So you have Archer Lightbearers, Weaponsmith Lightbearers, and, the most scary, Horror Slayer Lightbearers. The Circle 15 talent was the ability to physically enter the astral for fifteen minutes. They had a number of other really neat abilities, though several of them hinge on the death of the Lightbearer.

I'm not sure about the Mystic Crusaders. Darn. Now I'm going to have to spend all day searching my books for them. Threats you say? Well that's a starting point.
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nick012000
post Jun 4 2005, 12:31 AM
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QUOTE (Hoondatha)
Edge of Light states "any melee or missile weapon," which is why I'm curious about its effect with bullets.

It makes Horrors die. Especially of you cast it on something like a HVMG.
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Tziluthi
post Jun 4 2005, 01:04 AM
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...or naval scale weaponry.
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Hoondatha
post Jun 4 2005, 04:04 AM
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I'm not sure whether to gasp in horror or laugh uproariously. I'd never even thought of using it on naval weapons. Now *there's* a Horror's nightmare.
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FrostyNSO
post Jun 4 2005, 04:42 AM
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What about Nukes?
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Kagetenshi
post Jun 4 2005, 05:00 AM
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Neither a melee nor a missile weapon.

Well, unless you hit someone with it, then it's an awkward big rock/non-explosive cannon shell.

~J
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Hoondatha
post Jun 4 2005, 06:18 AM
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It really depends on how far you want to stretch the definintion of "missile weapon." Technically, most known weapons are either melee (grasped in one or more hands) or missile (propelled through the air). The exceptions would be things like land mines, however the fact that the "missile" contains explosives has no effect on the category (ex: hand grenades). Guns are also "missile" weapons, all they do is substitute a chemical propellant for that of human muscle. And naval weapons are nothing but big guns.

The fly in the ointment is how magic interacts with all these weapons. Obviously, Edge of Light was originally "designed" to be used with human propelled missile weapons, since that was all that existed in ED. It might work as-is with guns, or it might need the magical version of retooling.

What I figure is that if Lightbearers survived into the 5th World (as they had sworn to do), and they maintained at least their Lightbearer powers if nothing else (and that's the big if), they would sooner or later have realised the use of guns and put in the requisit R&D time to make Edge of Light work with bullets. It might even have been easier back then, when all they'd need to "enchant" would be the metal ball, as opposed to the all-in-one cartridges we have today.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
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