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> realism under fire
creepwood
post Jun 16 2005, 10:58 PM
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It's funny how everone seems to be opting all their actions during firefigts. Everbody has 720° vision, never fumble a clipchange, never have any fear of getting shot, no shellshocks, no grogginess if hit, supprssing fire is useless and combat fatigue, and always doing as much as you can during a round of combat. never surprised. and so on.

am I totally wrong or do you guys play this way?
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Thomas
post Jun 16 2005, 11:45 PM
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You've never met my decker that screams like a schoolgirl when the shooting starts. :D
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Ol' Scratch
post Jun 16 2005, 11:52 PM
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720-degree vision? Your group must never require Perception Tests or use Cover modifiers (or both of them together).
Never have fear of getting shot? Again, I guess your group never uses cover, as getting behind cover = fear of getting shot.
No "shellshock" or "grogginess" if hit? What do you think Wound Modifiers partially cover?
Suppressive Fire is useless? If you say so. Works great at keeping opponents at bay when I use it.
Combat Fatigue? That's partially covered by you taking wounds, running out of Combat Pool, and running out of Karma Pool.
Never Surprised? Either your group never use the Surprise rules, or they munch out their Reaction scores.

Most of that sounds like personal problems. No offense intended.
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hermit
post Jun 17 2005, 12:26 AM
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Supressive fire is pretty useful, at least if you use an HMG at full auto.

Other than that, 720 degree vision? Wow. 720 out of 360. I want that implant too. :D

QUOTE
am I totally wrong or do you guys play this way?

I must say that you are indeed totally wrong. No offense intended. :)

The unrealistic bit is the hit rate SR produces, which is very close to one-shot-one-hit, but that's part of the general game mechanic, like it or leave it.
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mmu1
post Jun 17 2005, 12:29 AM
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I play SR3 because it lets me play competent, professional characters - I've started enough D&D characters at 1st level to have had my fill of being helpless and weak.

I also enjoy character development, which only works if my character is alive, and dropping clips in the middle of a fight or letting someone sneak up on me for dramatic effect is not conducive to that.
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hermit
post Jun 17 2005, 12:30 AM
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Yeah, this isn't PrivateRyanRun after all.
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creepwood
post Jun 17 2005, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE
720-degree vision? Your group must never require Perception Tests or use Cover modifiers (or both of them together).
Never have fear of getting shot? Again, I guess your group never uses cover, as getting behind cover = fear of getting shot.
No "shellshock" or "grogginess" if hit? What do you think Wound Modifiers partially cover?
Suppressive Fire is useless? If you say so. Works great at keeping opponents at bay when I use it.
Combat Fatigue? That's partially covered by you taking wounds, running out of Combat Pool, and running out of Karma Pool.
Never Surprised? Either your group never use the Surprise rules, or they munch out their Reaction scores.

I didn't say how we play.

I couldn't unagree with you more. but then again, I dislikes rules, I think it should be roleplayed instead. all those factors I drew up.
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creepwood
post Jun 17 2005, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (mmu1)
I play SR3 because it lets me play competent, professional characters - I've started enough D&D characters at 1st level to have had my fill of being helpless and weak.

I also enjoy character development, which only works if my character is alive, and dropping clips in the middle of a fight or letting someone sneak up on me for dramatic effect is not conducive to that.

you're not thinking three dimensional. 360 degrees you can't look up or down, you only see the things that are in your exact eyelevel.... :P

you see the earth is 720 degrees, 360 horizontelly and 360 veritcally, hence, 720 degrees is all around you :)
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creepwood
post Jun 17 2005, 12:46 AM
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QUOTE (hermit)
Yeah, this isn't PrivateRyanRun after all.

character development, you mean like morale, ethics, empathy, sympathy, etc? or do you mean skillwize? You're a munchkin.

I think that kids these days think it's a big step towards roleplay doing it P'n'P-wise when comming from the RPG-computer world.
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mmu1
post Jun 17 2005, 12:55 AM
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Yeah, ok. Bye, troll. Does this forum have an ignore function...?
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Jun 17 2005, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (hermit)
Yeah, this isn't PrivateRyanRun after all.

Clichés and stereotypes are pretty uncommon in my games, too.
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Supercilious
post Jun 17 2005, 02:10 AM
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Everyone in my games tends to play a general archetype, I dunno if that is cliche or not.

I always enforce modifiers and tests, it sounds like your perception of how the rules are written (Not how you play, but how you asked us if we play) is 100% wrong. I have never had a runner stand still when he was getting shot at unless he was behind cover, or do any of the other things you mentioned.
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FrostyNSO
post Jun 17 2005, 02:10 AM
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Jesus Christ. No game will ever accurately simulate a real-life firefight. Trust me on this. Just have fun with it for crying out loud and let it slide.
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Supercilious
post Jun 17 2005, 02:17 AM
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That is because real life has too many variables to be simulated with a few dice, the closest we can show is hit or miss with a clear modifier to the target to hit (Be it a high or low number, every game is too clear cut). FPS' have the potential for realism, but no one wants to shoot an entire pistol clip and hit nothing when pointing at a stationary target, people want to be total badasses and bust caps in people foreheads as they jumpduck through a window.
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Rev
post Jun 17 2005, 02:48 AM
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129600 degree vision :)
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SpasticTeapot
post Jun 17 2005, 03:14 AM
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Actually, 60482 degree vision. Up and down are the same regardless of where you point, and you're really just looking at the same thing regardless of if you're bending over backwards or just turn around. (178*360+2)
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Arethusa
post Jun 17 2005, 03:33 AM
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Worst. Thread. Ever.
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Supercilious
post Jun 17 2005, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
Worst. Thread. Ever.

Fixed.
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Rev
post Jun 17 2005, 04:00 AM
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Good point, but with each of those directions of view you have your choice orientations as to the up direction of your visual field, so 21773520 degree vision!
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DocMortand
post Jun 17 2005, 08:11 AM
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Don't forget if you have the capability of staring two different directions with your eyes...or if you have multiple eyes located in random areas....This adds multipliers, I would think.
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Critias
post Jun 17 2005, 08:54 AM
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Silence, intraweb-nazis!

CreepwoodRun (4th edition) is the hottest new thing. Every fight starts with your super-cool team of hardened professional killers getting caught completely flat-footed by whatever rent-a-cop it is they're fighting.

Once the initial surprise round phase is over (and half the party is dead from the security guard's suppressive fire), the remaining half should trip while frantically diving for full cover (as the fear of getting shot compels them to do nothing offensive, on the grounds they might shoot themselves, and as their own realistic inept combat ability sends them comically sprawling instead, anyways).

Phase two takes a little longer, because both the security guards and the CreepwoodRunners are so tired all of a sudden. That initial .75 second adrenaline burst is gone, and combat fatigue has set in. Half the security guards are so shocked by the sudden confrontation they're a part of that they pass out cold. The other half attempt to reload, but fumble. The CreepwoodRunners, meanwhile, manage to shake, urinate, tremble, defecate, weep, and crawl their way to full cover.


Phase Three is just the super-augmented street sammie getting his actions (no one else rolled high enough for init). He got shot, though, in the initial horrendous wave of suppressive-fire. He's only got a Moderate Wound due to all his dermal plating and other augmentations, but he's just so shell-shocked and groggy after getting hit that he can't do much but lie there.

Phase Four is the sammie finally staggering to cover, because his overwhelming fear of enemy fire has him so incapable of doing anything usefull (despite the security guards all being busy bending over and picking up their dropped magazines), plus he can't see where the security guards are due to not having a 3784293 degree field of vision.

Round Two begins with half the party dead, half the guards passed out from boo-scary-fright, and everyone's movement penalized by difficult terrain, due to all the puddles of urine from everyone failing the Willpower (24) rolls to keep from wizzing themselves 'cause there's a fight. But that's okay, 'cause no one wants to do any moving anyways (since they can't see what's going on).

Roll init! Isn't this fun?!
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Azrael
post Jun 17 2005, 10:00 AM
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Taking a large well meaning step back...

Scaryly enough, our group had a newbie start and within 5 minutes had more accurately reacted to the battle than the others. When bullets started to fly he did run for cover! Suppressive fire made him stay down. Wounds made him stop to think about the consequences.

The regulars had become lax because the last few sessions (and we only get one every 6 weeks or so) had been extremely short and I'd opted out of drawn out combat and gone all Hong Kong.

And to end the ramble - enforce realism. Thankfully I have a guy who usually rolls at least two rule-of-ones a session so the fumbling with clips happens quite regularly.
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nick012000
post Jun 17 2005, 10:23 AM
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Critias wins the thread. :rotfl: :P

Why run for cover when you wired-to-the-gills street sam can take shotgun shells and elephant guns loaded with EX explosive bullets to the chest without getting injured? :cyber:
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BlackSmith
post Jun 17 2005, 12:37 PM
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QUOTE (nick012000)
Why run for cover when you wired-to-the-gills street sam can take shotgun shells and elephant guns loaded with EX explosive bullets to the chest without getting injured? :cyber:

Because he is about to be hit by Sand ball and the dude who dropped the mojo, is aiming you with net gun. Net gun that is loaded with net that is made of monowire. :S
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Jrayjoker
post Jun 17 2005, 01:37 PM
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I'm all for roleplaying, but some of us like rollplaying as well. Let the dice fall and describe the action. If you don't like rules go play storyteller in the SR universe.
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