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> Let's play pretend.
Nerbert
post Jun 17 2005, 08:05 PM
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Lets just go back the opening scenario here. You've never played Shadowrun in your whole life. How do you start? You've no idea how to run balanced encounters, you've no idea how much Karma and money to hand out. How do you know how to run a balanced game with fair, fun scenarios?

That was me, picking up SR3. I did come up with my own little "snatch and grab" while trying to learn the rules at the same time. I quit because it was too much work for too little reward. If I had had something to go off of, I could have learned the rules and used the example as a spring board and I might still be playing.

My post was to point out that including free introductory scenarios with new game manuals does not require an increase in the cost of the book and that it has been done before, well and successfully.

If thats trolling, then I guess you'd just better report me.
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blakkie
post Jun 17 2005, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE (kryton)
QUOTE
Then why don't you go troll their forums instead of ours. since obviously it must be the greatest game ever for having an adventure in it. It's not like you can't use your imagination and come up with a simple snatch and grab, or is that to complicated for you?


I disagree. It depends on the age range. For adults that's true. But for kids say 15 and under having something to work off of is a really good idea. Like I said for kids who are younger written adventures really help them focus they're point of view and develop a view of the world and how it works. Granted you can run stuff if your 15 and younger but sometimes the published adventures are just better because of age and abilities.

Even for adults having an idea and implementing it are two different things if you don't have the experience with the system to properly judge obstacle difficulties. Plus when GMing while you learn the game it is great to not have to worry about arranging the plot. When 3e came out, even with a number of years of AD&D experience, i greatly appreciated the crappy little PDFed adventure that came on the CD.

Imagine if you don't even have exprience with what kind of runs exist in SR.
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blakkie
post Jun 17 2005, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (Adam)
Uh? I'm not in Calgary. :)

Yes, i am aware of that....pierogi-sucker :P
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Eldritch
post Jun 17 2005, 08:27 PM
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QUOTE (Nerbert)
Lets just go back the opening scenario here. You've never played Shadowrun in your whole life. How do you start? You've no idea how to run balanced encounters, you've no idea how much Karma and money to hand out. How do you know how to run a balanced game with fair, fun scenarios?

That was me, picking up SR3. I did come up with my own little "snatch and grab" while trying to learn the rules at the same time. I quit because it was too much work for too little reward. If I had had something to go off of, I could have learned the rules and used the example as a spring board and I might still be playing.

My post was to point out that including free introductory scenarios with new game manuals does not require an increase in the cost of the book and that it has been done before, well and successfully.

If thats trolling, then I guess you'd just better report me.

Well I got into SR when it was orginally released. In order to learn the system I had everyone make a character - from the archtypes, then put 2 of them on the street and had them duke it out - first with guns, then HtH. Once we had combat down we started playing. The rest came as we played. Once we had combat down everythiong else was easy.



I know it's been done before - successfully, but How do you figure putting extra pages in won't affect the cost of the book?
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Nerbert
post Jun 17 2005, 08:33 PM
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You don't put your sample game in the book. You make it promotional material. D&D had its CD, Vampire had its pamphlet, there are lots of ways to do it.
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blakkie
post Jun 17 2005, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jun 17 2005, 02:03 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Jun 17 2005, 10:16 AM)
Let's pretend the picture on the front cover convinces me to lift the book off the shelf and look through it.

Sorry, my suspension of disbelief shattered right there. :D

Yes, in the format we've seen it in that picture does look a bit tired to me. Hopefully the book cover itself will frame it nicely and help breath a bit more energy into it.

Then again look at the first three D&D 3e manual covers. A photographic transfer of something i'd expect to find at the arts & crafts table of a middle school Parent's Night. Apparently there are at least a few people that choose not to or have questionable taste in judging a book by it's cover. EDIT: And maybe i'm one of them? I have heard some people actually like the D&D PHB cover.

P.S. Some of the later 3/3.5e art, even some of the covers done in that original style, are very nice IMO. My favourite of the arts & crafts covers is the MMIII.
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Eldritch
post Jun 17 2005, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (Nerbert)
You don't put your sample game in the book. You make it promotional material. D&D had its CD, Vampire had its pamphlet, there are lots of ways to do it.

Well, yeah A cd would be cool - with adventures, art, maps and such would be handy.

I thought you were talking about including it in the book, If it came down to cutting rules or publishing an adventure in the CRB, I'd say cut the adventure.
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Penta
post Jun 18 2005, 02:11 AM
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QUOTE (Eldritch)
Agreed.

Which begs the question; What is SR4's target audience? What age group are they aiming for?

That is a question it's probably not possible to get an answer with.
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nezumi
post Jun 18 2005, 11:59 AM
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Here's a crazy idea...

Why don't they publish some quickie adventures (like say the quick start guide) in pdf form on the web! And then they just need to say include a link to all this preexisting free content IN THE BOOK!

Now we have our neat premade adventures available to people like Nerbert, and all it takes is one little line, a URL, with a note saying 'if your name is Nerbert, or you'd like some more help starting up, see also:' Cheaper than CDs, and no rules loss.
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Taki
post Jun 18 2005, 02:39 PM
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Having 10 pages of scenario instead of background / rules isn't dumbing down the system ?
I am a bit lost ;)

Lets play fair : a scenario in the book is about useless for sr1-2-3 master and player, but I find it a very good idea for beginners ...
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blakkie
post Jun 18 2005, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Taki)
Having 10 pages of scenario instead of background / rules isn't dumbing down the system ?
I am a bit lost ;)

Lets play fair : a scenario in the book is about useless for sr1-2-3 master and player, but I find it a very good idea for beginners ...

You are a bit lost, please review the thread. :P

How you get dumbing down I'm not sure. More cluttering up. I also disagree that a scenario, in the BBB proper or otherwise, is near useless for prior SR players. Not worth 5 pages of tradeoff perhaps, but not useless.
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