Let's pretend I'm new to SR. Or at least new again. Let's pretend the picture on the front cover convinces me to lift the book off the shelf and look through it. I leaf through it and decide it looks cool enough try out. I buy it and take it home. I read it through, i show it to the people i play with and give a brief explaination.They are okay with trying it out for a few sessions.
Now what? Does Fanpro have plans to have a get to know the system adventure? I don't mean just hardwired example of the game being played, i mean something you can actually play. Something to show off the game and world. So the GM isn't fumbling around with a system he doesn't know trying to figure out how it all fits together. To lower the entrance barrier to new players. Even to lower the entrance barrier to SR3 players since the numbers that constitutes a certain level of leathal opponent or situation will need to be relearned.
If there is someting is it going to be a website hosted thing? If so how do i, customer off the street, know it exists? Is it instead going to be an insert that goes out with the initial shipments?
Full Version: Let's play pretend.
Maybe they'll reuse the old Food Fight scenario. It was included in the first BBB (and I believe SR2 as well?), and was again used in First Run updated for SR3. 
But do you think they'd use the same die mehcanic to determine what colored goo you get splased on you?
| QUOTE (Eldritch @ Jun 17 2005, 10:38 AM) |
| But do you think they'd use the same die mehcanic to determine what colored goo you get splased on you? |
No way. To Streamline™ it the goo containers will roll their Shatter + Spurt dice. The colour dependant on the number of hits.
This will be an exception situation though where the dice rolled will be exploding, obviously.
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||
No way. To Streamline™ it the goo containers will roll their Shatter + Spurt dice. The colour dependant on the number of hits. This will be an exception situation though where the dice rolled will be exploding, obviously. |
I categorically reject the creation of a Spurt skill.
LOL, I hope they reprint Food fight, though it needs a little updating. there seems to be little reason to rob a stuffer shack, considering it's likely the gangers will spend more nuyen in ammo than they can take in from the robbery.
I just love the concept, and have always used it as a get to know the system milk run. Sometimes I dust it off after a while for the players to blow off steam, tweaking the variables.
I just love the concept, and have always used it as a get to know the system milk run. Sometimes I dust it off after a while for the players to blow off steam, tweaking the variables.
| QUOTE (Req @ Jun 17 2005, 11:05 AM) |
| I categorically reject the creation of a Spurt skill. |
Really? It's one of a handful being planned for Shadowbeat II: The Good, The Bad, & The Titillating.
Speaking of channeling top secret infomation hang on folks i'm getting in something new from the Illuminati satelite transmitters. *adjusts foil hat*
| QUOTE |
| Right after SR4 was announced a flyer was distributed announcing the initial post-new edition release schedule. There will be a one-off introductory adventure release following SR4 and mini-Mr.JLBB supplement with the new GM screen sometime after Street Magic. Additionally a number of entry level (but easily customizable) adventures are planned for release through the website as well as a few conversion guides for oldtimers. |
EDIT: Don't ask me what a "one-off introductory adventure" is, i'm just a conduit for these messages. Maybe it is an adventure that is tied into the Spurt related skills? Or maybe it is like the Simpsons episode where Chief Wiggum and his boys raid the wrong house next door?
Nifty
If SR3 had had a well written sample scenario in it I'd probably still be playing.
| QUOTE (Nerbert) |
| If SR3 had had a well written sample scenario in it I'd probably still be playing. |
It did, it was called 'First Run'. It cost $9.95 and had three pretty well written adventures in it.
However, if that was the only reason you didn't play SR3....
Its not a sample if you have to pay for it
You are paying for it , more pages = more expensive book.
I'd rather they spend what pages they have on rules, than in an intorductory adventure.
There are a couple adventures on the SRRPG site aren't there? Along wihtt the Missions adventures. Those are free. And not hard to find.
I'd rather they spend what pages they have on rules, than in an intorductory adventure.
There are a couple adventures on the SRRPG site aren't there? Along wihtt the Missions adventures. Those are free. And not hard to find.
| QUOTE (blakkie @ Jun 17 2005, 11:16 AM) |
| If there is someting is it going to be a website hosted thing? If so how do i, customer off the street, know it exists? |
What he said. I had no idea that they had free missions on the website.
Also, my Vampire book came with a free scenario, in a little booklet all of its own.
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| There are a couple adventures on the SRRPG site aren't there? Along wihtt the Missions adventures. Those are free. And not hard to find. |
Back at the start of SR3 that wouldn't have been particularly feasible. Even now relying solely on the web for distribution is a bit questionable. But at least you'll get cheap distribution, under a more flexible timeline, of the goods to a good chunk of customers.
In my mind a key is very obvious placement of the URL in the book. Not just buried on the inside cover in a sea of similar height text. Instead having it large and including an urging to check out the website for [free] extras. Say large text on a different coloured block on the back cover. Not only does that make the chance of reading it higher, the website could partially double as pre-sale advertising as the URL is likely to stick in their head even if they don't buy the book right there.
If your in a area with a Commando we'd be more than happy to run some games for you. As for content in the first book that's pretty much locked down tight. I'd voice any concerns to Adam and Rob Boyle (Info@shadowrunrpg.com) they could best answer those questions. The Commando's (we're the demo guys) haven't been in the loop as far as what's in the book. I'm assuming there's going to be some stuff in there as well as possible modules? I'm not totally sure though? Try out www.commandohq.com and submit a request after GenCon and if there's a commando in your area he or she can run a game at your local game store. Otherwise there should be some published adventures coming out but you'd have to check with Rob at (info@shadowrunrpg.com). He'd be your best resource as to product releases and future content. I know Adam is also privy to alot of the content but isn't able to disclose any details per a non-disclosure agreement. The whole release has pretty much been kept very very quiet. As I know about as much as you do. Like I said if there's a convention or game store at your area check out www.commandohq.com, I'm in Boston so if there's anyone who wants a demo run in the 495 corridor I'm willing to travel. That won't be till after official release as presently there's no preview games being run.
Hmm, i'd never been to that site. I don't see any obvious links to it from the SR site.
It would seem there is a commando nearby. Do Commandos always cover all the products, or might this fellow be concentrated more on, for example, Battletech table-top? I think i'll drop him an email anyway. Come to think of it i might have seen his name up on the bulletin board last time i was in store. It didn't say anything about "commando" but given the game list i remember on the note that was likely him.
P.S. On a only slightly related topic i didn't realize Adam lived up in this [red]neck of the woods. Perhaps I should send a drone over to his place to scoop some SR4 paydata?
It would seem there is a commando nearby. Do Commandos always cover all the products, or might this fellow be concentrated more on, for example, Battletech table-top? I think i'll drop him an email anyway. Come to think of it i might have seen his name up on the bulletin board last time i was in store. It didn't say anything about "commando" but given the game list i remember on the note that was likely him.
P.S. On a only slightly related topic i didn't realize Adam lived up in this [red]neck of the woods. Perhaps I should send a drone over to his place to scoop some SR4 paydata?
| QUOTE |
| P.S. On a only slightly related topic i didn't realize Adam lived up in this [red]neck of the woods. |
Not by choice, hopefully for not much longer.
| QUOTE (Nerbert) | ||
What he said. I had no idea that they had free missions on the website. Also, my Vampire book came with a free scenario, in a little booklet all of its own. |
Then why don't you go troll their forums instead of ours. since obviously it must be the greatest game ever for having an adventure in it. It's not like you can't use your imagination and come up with a simple snatch and grab, or is that to complicated for you?
Right now some commandos demo/run battletech other Shadowrun. Ideally we're trying to get more folks to run Shadowrun with 4th edition comes out. As far as there not being a link yeah that's an issue. Under the missions area you can find a link via http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/missions/gamemasters.shtml and there may be some more. www.commandohq.com isn't very well publicised. I've voiced concerns similar to yours. The only way to really make those concerns heard is therough info@shadowrunrpg.com. Rob Boyle checks that address directly.
As far as the games go just email the commando in your area and ask. The worst they can say is no.
There's not word yet though if Missions are going to be ported to 4th edition. There's some stuff in the works for 4th editon but nothing is concrete yet. If you'd like someone to run in your area again I can't stress this enough email info@shadowrunrpg.com or email the coordinator at missions@shadowrunrpg.com. The more noise you make the more you'll get us moving.
Check out also:
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/missions/events.shtml
As far as the games go just email the commando in your area and ask. The worst they can say is no.
There's not word yet though if Missions are going to be ported to 4th edition. There's some stuff in the works for 4th editon but nothing is concrete yet. If you'd like someone to run in your area again I can't stress this enough email info@shadowrunrpg.com or email the coordinator at missions@shadowrunrpg.com. The more noise you make the more you'll get us moving.
Check out also:
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/missions/events.shtml
| QUOTE |
| Then why don't you go troll their forums instead of ours. since obviously it must be the greatest game ever for having an adventure in it. It's not like you can't use your imagination and come up with a simple snatch and grab, or is that to complicated for you? |
I disagree. It depends on the age range. For adults that's true. But for kids say 15 and under having something to work off of is a really good idea. Like I said for kids who are younger written adventures really help them focus they're point of view and develop a view of the world and how it works. Granted you can run stuff if your 15 and younger but sometimes the published adventures are just better because of age and abilities.
| QUOTE (Adam) | ||
Not by choice, hopefully for not much longer. |
It would take a vile conspiracy against me force me into living in that city, too.
I live a bit farther south, in what has lately become Monsoonville. No more Cowtown, all the cattle have drowned. 
| QUOTE (kryton) |
| Right now some commandos demo/run battletech other Shadowrun. Ideally we're trying to get more folks to run Shadowrun with 4th edition comes out. As far as there not being a link yeah that's an issue. Under the missions area you can find a link via http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/missions/gamemasters.shtml and there may be some more. www.commandohq.com isn't very well publicised. I've voiced concerns similar to yours. The only way to really make those concerns heard is therough info@shadowrunrpg.com. Rob Boyle checks that address directly. As far as the games go just email the commando in your area and ask. The worst they can say is no. There's not word yet though if Missions are going to be ported to 4th edition. There's some stuff in the works for 4th editon but nothing is concrete yet. If you'd like someone to run in your area again I can't stress this enough email info@shadowrunrpg.com or email the coordinator at missions@shadowrunrpg.com. The more noise you make the more you'll get us moving. Check out also: http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/missions/events.shtml |
Wow, I'da thought that the commandos would be involved in some play testing - and that something would be in place for them to run local events the day after gencon.
Uh? I'm not in Calgary.
| QUOTE (kryton) | ||
I disagree. It depends on the age range. For adults that's true. But for kids say 15 and under having something to work off of is a really good idea. Like I said for kids who are younger written adventures really help them focus they're point of view and develop a view of the world and how it works. Granted you can run stuff if your 15 and younger but sometimes the published adventures are just better because of age and abilities. |
Agreed.
Which begs the question; What is SR4's target audience? What age group are they aiming for?
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| Let's pretend the picture on the front cover convinces me to lift the book off the shelf and look through it. |
Sorry, my suspension of disbelief shattered right there.
Lets just go back the opening scenario here. You've never played Shadowrun in your whole life. How do you start? You've no idea how to run balanced encounters, you've no idea how much Karma and money to hand out. How do you know how to run a balanced game with fair, fun scenarios?
That was me, picking up SR3. I did come up with my own little "snatch and grab" while trying to learn the rules at the same time. I quit because it was too much work for too little reward. If I had had something to go off of, I could have learned the rules and used the example as a spring board and I might still be playing.
My post was to point out that including free introductory scenarios with new game manuals does not require an increase in the cost of the book and that it has been done before, well and successfully.
If thats trolling, then I guess you'd just better report me.
That was me, picking up SR3. I did come up with my own little "snatch and grab" while trying to learn the rules at the same time. I quit because it was too much work for too little reward. If I had had something to go off of, I could have learned the rules and used the example as a spring board and I might still be playing.
My post was to point out that including free introductory scenarios with new game manuals does not require an increase in the cost of the book and that it has been done before, well and successfully.
If thats trolling, then I guess you'd just better report me.
| QUOTE (kryton) | ||
I disagree. It depends on the age range. For adults that's true. But for kids say 15 and under having something to work off of is a really good idea. Like I said for kids who are younger written adventures really help them focus they're point of view and develop a view of the world and how it works. Granted you can run stuff if your 15 and younger but sometimes the published adventures are just better because of age and abilities. |
Even for adults having an idea and implementing it are two different things if you don't have the experience with the system to properly judge obstacle difficulties. Plus when GMing while you learn the game it is great to not have to worry about arranging the plot. When 3e came out, even with a number of years of AD&D experience, i greatly appreciated the crappy little PDFed adventure that came on the CD.
Imagine if you don't even have exprience with what kind of runs exist in SR.
| QUOTE (Adam) |
| Uh? I'm not in Calgary. |
Yes, i am aware of that....pierogi-sucker
| QUOTE (Nerbert) |
| Lets just go back the opening scenario here. You've never played Shadowrun in your whole life. How do you start? You've no idea how to run balanced encounters, you've no idea how much Karma and money to hand out. How do you know how to run a balanced game with fair, fun scenarios? That was me, picking up SR3. I did come up with my own little "snatch and grab" while trying to learn the rules at the same time. I quit because it was too much work for too little reward. If I had had something to go off of, I could have learned the rules and used the example as a spring board and I might still be playing. My post was to point out that including free introductory scenarios with new game manuals does not require an increase in the cost of the book and that it has been done before, well and successfully. If thats trolling, then I guess you'd just better report me. |
Well I got into SR when it was orginally released. In order to learn the system I had everyone make a character - from the archtypes, then put 2 of them on the street and had them duke it out - first with guns, then HtH. Once we had combat down we started playing. The rest came as we played. Once we had combat down everythiong else was easy.
I know it's been done before - successfully, but How do you figure putting extra pages in won't affect the cost of the book?
You don't put your sample game in the book. You make it promotional material. D&D had its CD, Vampire had its pamphlet, there are lots of ways to do it.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jun 17 2005, 02:03 PM) | ||
Sorry, my suspension of disbelief shattered right there. |
Yes, in the format we've seen it in that picture does look a bit tired to me. Hopefully the book cover itself will frame it nicely and help breath a bit more energy into it.
Then again look at the first three D&D 3e manual covers. A photographic transfer of something i'd expect to find at the arts & crafts table of a middle school Parent's Night. Apparently there are at least a few people that choose not to or have questionable taste in judging a book by it's cover. EDIT: And maybe i'm one of them? I have heard some people actually like the D&D PHB cover.
P.S. Some of the later 3/3.5e art, even some of the covers done in that original style, are very nice IMO. My favourite of the arts & crafts covers is the MMIII.
| QUOTE (Nerbert) |
| You don't put your sample game in the book. You make it promotional material. D&D had its CD, Vampire had its pamphlet, there are lots of ways to do it. |
Well, yeah A cd would be cool - with adventures, art, maps and such would be handy.
I thought you were talking about including it in the book, If it came down to cutting rules or publishing an adventure in the CRB, I'd say cut the adventure.
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| Agreed. Which begs the question; What is SR4's target audience? What age group are they aiming for? |
That is a question it's probably not possible to get an answer with.
Here's a crazy idea...
Why don't they publish some quickie adventures (like say the quick start guide) in pdf form on the web! And then they just need to say include a link to all this preexisting free content IN THE BOOK!
Now we have our neat premade adventures available to people like Nerbert, and all it takes is one little line, a URL, with a note saying 'if your name is Nerbert, or you'd like some more help starting up, see also:' Cheaper than CDs, and no rules loss.
Why don't they publish some quickie adventures (like say the quick start guide) in pdf form on the web! And then they just need to say include a link to all this preexisting free content IN THE BOOK!
Now we have our neat premade adventures available to people like Nerbert, and all it takes is one little line, a URL, with a note saying 'if your name is Nerbert, or you'd like some more help starting up, see also:' Cheaper than CDs, and no rules loss.
Having 10 pages of scenario instead of background / rules isn't dumbing down the system ?
I am a bit lost
Lets play fair : a scenario in the book is about useless for sr1-2-3 master and player, but I find it a very good idea for beginners ...
I am a bit lost
Lets play fair : a scenario in the book is about useless for sr1-2-3 master and player, but I find it a very good idea for beginners ...
| QUOTE (Taki) |
| Having 10 pages of scenario instead of background / rules isn't dumbing down the system ? I am a bit lost Lets play fair : a scenario in the book is about useless for sr1-2-3 master and player, but I find it a very good idea for beginners ... |
You are a bit lost, please review the thread.
How you get dumbing down I'm not sure. More cluttering up. I also disagree that a scenario, in the BBB proper or otherwise, is near useless for prior SR players. Not worth 5 pages of tradeoff perhaps, but not useless.
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