 Players modifying their environement, how oftens do players move things around |
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 Jun 23 2005, 09:08 PM
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#1
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Ain Soph Aur  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600  |
This is inspired by another thread, where, in response to how to handle a fight with glare modifier from ill-positionned street lamps, a poster said to get in cover, then shoot out the lights.
Honestly, I can't recall a single time where my players would have done that. Instead of soaking the modifier, try to change your environnement. Shoot out light bulbs, create light by shooting boarded windows, move furniture or crates to make cover, start a fire, etc. How often do your players (or yourself, if you are a player) do this? |
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Jun 23 2005, 10:44 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,362 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Poway, San Diego County, CA, USA Member No.: 5,676 |
The shape earth spell is my friend.
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Jun 23 2005, 10:58 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 470 Joined: 2-January 05 From: Quebec Member No.: 6,924 |
I change my environment with High Explosives. I once chucked a couple grenades into a crowded room and it was covered entirely with chunky salsa.
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Jun 23 2005, 11:11 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
lol, truely quotable! |
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Jun 23 2005, 11:14 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,286 Joined: 24-May 05 From: A 10x10 room with an orc and a treasure chest Member No.: 7,409 |
I'm pretty sure we drive our gm to destraction trying to keep up with all the stuff we do. Turning over tables, pushing carts, breaking things to make melee weapons, and that's just in a barfight.
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Jun 23 2005, 11:15 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Sometimes that. Sometimes using the environment as the weapon. For example an opponent standing in vicinity of compressed gas cylinders? Shoot the cylinder to rupture it. You do need to be careful about how close you are. If you only snap off the valve at the top it doesn't nessarily frag, it could instead become like an untied ballon that you let go. Strong propulsion with no guidance.
Also if it happens to be an acetalyne or propane cylinder you better hope the GM isn't too generous on sizing the blast radius. :noflame: P.S. For future info i would have liked to see an option between often and once or twice, an "occationally" would have been my best fit. No biggie though. |
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Jun 23 2005, 11:52 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 470 Joined: 2-January 05 From: Quebec Member No.: 6,924 |
Dr. Nick: Inflammable means flammable? What a country! |
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Jun 24 2005, 01:41 PM
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#8
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Discounting the craters they leave, they seem to usually use the cover given without trying to move it around too much (except for the decker who seems to be only too aware that bullets hurt.)
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Jun 24 2005, 02:33 PM
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#9
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Really, since when? I haven't played anything but a troll since 1994.
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Jun 24 2005, 02:40 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
I very rarely do this sort of thing, for one reason: It's almost always less effective than just moving to a better position while returning fire. (obviously, there are exceptions, but I find them to be very rare)
Alothough when expecting heavy-duty fighting, and when we're in the right setting, our team breaks out the Shield Drone, which is basically partial cover on wheels (or tracks, as it might be), so I guess some of the time we do "modify the environment". We're just too high tech to tip tables over. ;) |
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Jun 24 2005, 02:48 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 404 Joined: 22-June 05 From: Canada eh! Member No.: 7,455 |
I love how TV fallacy has warped our sense of what really happens. first of all, a cylendar of acelaine will have a bullet rating of at least 10, you can shoot it and the bullet from a 9mm and the bullet will vapourize. If you shoot the valve, you will just send the cannister careening around the area, and very high and dangerous speeds. You would need a spark to set off the gas "after" it is escaping from the cylendar. I did have a character once, take out a truck by knocking the valves off a cannister of compressed gas, causing the cannister to blow through the side. I gave it a 20D rating. Myth 1, if you shoot a barrel of gas, or jerry can, it blows up. Myth 2, you can take cover behind a car door because it will stop a bullet. Myth 3, lead bullets create sparks when they hit metal. As for altering environments, any smart group will take advantage of whatever they can,u sing flares, shooting out lights, rolling cars, sewer covers as shields. This post has been edited by Nyxll: Jun 24 2005, 02:49 PM |
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Jun 24 2005, 02:52 PM
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#12
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
You can take cover behind a car door. It won't stop a bullet, but it's better than no cover and may introduce uncertainty as to where exactly parts of your body are. Moreover, if the car is an armored Runnermobile…
There was also that time when we were preparing a vehicle ambush so we went out and bought a few truckloads of Jersey barriers, sheet metal, and plywood to stack around in a maze in the parking lot, but that's more creating the environment from whole cloth than modifying it. ~J |
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Jun 24 2005, 02:57 PM
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#13
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
No they don't, but if the canister is constructed of a ferrous metal or there is some sort of metal components or loose stones in the area there can be plenty of sparks. There are also often other sources of ignition such as if someone fires a weapon, someone smoking, incandesent lightbulbs breaking, eletrical motors or other electrical equipment that isn't seald to be explosion proof, running combustion engines, etc. EDIT: Theoretically the pressure that a slug creates when squeezing a flammable liquid between itself and a hard surface could create enough heat to ignite. This is how diesel engines ingite their fuel, they have no spark plugs. How likely this is to occur and what kind of conditions you need for it i couldn't say. The diesel engine has the benefit of compressing the fuel while it is mixed with oxygen in an engineered environment. If there is no oxygen present during the pressure then no ignition. When a highpressure underground natural gas pipe blows it usually ignites the gas. Even out in the middle of the woods. Why? A spark from all the metal and gravel flying around. P.S. Not all slugs are lead. :) |
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Jun 24 2005, 03:03 PM
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#14
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
If you're on the low-end of the spectrum and need a bulletproof barrier, you cannot go wrong with sandbags. They seriously will stop pretty much every form of small arms fire. Ordinary car doors are concealment, not cover, as are ordinary tables.
However, if you are low on cash, you can't go wrong with lining a truck's bed and the sides of the bed with sandbags. Or just the side, if you think you need sure footing in the back of the truck. Just a tangent, because of the armored Runnermobile quote. |
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Jun 24 2005, 03:04 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
See, this is what I was talking about... How long does it take to roll over a car, or pry up a manhole cover without tools? (And who are these characters that are strong enough to roll over a car or handle a 100+ lbs chunk of steel as a shield?) Instead of wasting time on that sort of thing, just take an action to run for the nearest corner or doorway while shooting - you'll have better cover, and any lucky shots that hit and do damage are just gravy. |
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Jun 24 2005, 03:29 PM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
One thing to keep in mind though is the huge amount of weight that this can involve. Dry sand weighs close to 2000kg/m3, or about 120lb. per cubic foot. Line a light-duty civilian truck box with sand bags and the wheels are likely close to touching the fender walls, and performance and gas mileage will suck. Still a cheap portable foxhole, just don't expect to go rally driving with it. |
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Jun 24 2005, 03:38 PM
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#17
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Sand is free, after all, and I imagine the bags don't cost that much. :)
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Jun 24 2005, 03:44 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I do agree on this whole heartedly. The barrier ratings on the walls of those cylinders, especially the acetalyne and oxygen ones, are going to be fairly high. Also due to the roundness they'd have a fairly small target to hit to keep even rifle slugs from just deflecting to the side.
As a side note once apon a time some very foolish engineering students at a local universty near where i grew up decided to improvise their own bottle rocket using a compressed gas cylinder. My understanding is they used a standard 3000 psi cylinder, likely compressed air since there was no ensuing deaths or explosions. :) They set it up pointing across a local river at a point where it was maybe 200m to 300m wide. They then somehow broke the valve assembly off. Suppositly with the back side of an axehead. Given they were engineering students that means they were either very drunk (quite possible) or they actually rigged up something mechanical to fall and break it off while they watched from a somewhat safer distance. Not sure if they had affixed guiding fins to it or anything to keep it mostly going straight, but the cylinder was found embedded in the soil of the bank on the far side of the river. This was well over 15 year ago so i can't give you a news link or anything. |
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Jun 24 2005, 03:48 PM
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#19
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
For when you absoloutely, positively MUST rig your own rocket launcher. :)
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Jun 24 2005, 03:56 PM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
All you need now is about 15 feet of heavy PVC piping of the correct diameter and you have a very effective seige engine.
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Jun 24 2005, 03:58 PM
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#21
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Best if you rifle that piping, or saw it into a half-pipe and attach fins somehow. I'd go with the rifling.
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Jun 24 2005, 04:31 PM
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#22
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Just attach four fins and then cut slots in the piping to fit the fins.
~J |
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Jun 24 2005, 04:52 PM
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#23
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I like the randomness of it all. If I am scared where it may land you shoud be scared sh!713$$.
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Jun 24 2005, 06:08 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441 |
Pretty often. My favorite was during a cross-borders run. We were being pursued by a megacorp elite team; we let slip information that we would be crossing the border at a checkpoint at a certain time of day.
We crossed at a different location a ahead of schedule, worked back to the point where we were expected to cross... we had a mage physical mask a FAST sammy in the corp's uniform, and engage a patrol. The sammy made sure he was "made" by the patrol, and got the hell out of dodge. Our astral mage watched as the corp team tried to make the crossing at the check point a little bit ahead of our expected schedule -- obviously, they were going to try and ambush us -- and we enjoyed it immensely when the heavily armed checkpoint guard tore them a new one. Mmm, using your environment is awesome. And yes, locals are "environment" ;) |
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Jun 24 2005, 06:13 PM
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#25
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Vaev: Bravo.
Kagentoshi: How? Then you have four sections of pipe. Or do you mean not cut it all the way down? I still think rifling the pipe would be easier. Just involve a couple of cleverly placed Dremel tools on a stick. |
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