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> Who wants a Body Armor?, For sale!
JesterX
post Jun 25 2005, 01:23 PM
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Très Shadowrun:

http://www.usabodyarmor.com/

Is it a hoax?!
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jun 25 2005, 01:26 PM
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Why would this be a hoax? Flexible armored vests "camouflaged" as suit vests, jackets, whatever, are quite common. Here's the actual homepage of the firm making the EnGarde armor on the site you linked. Also check out Ballistic Clothing at BulletProofMe.Com.
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DrJest
post Jun 25 2005, 01:34 PM
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My Google-fu is weak - can anyone point me at a resource desribing the legality of body armour in the UK currently? Someone reading over my shoulder told me this stuff is illegal in Britain.
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Diesel
post Jun 25 2005, 01:38 PM
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Doesn't look like it. You can buy body armor all over the place.


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Diesel
post Jun 25 2005, 01:40 PM
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Huh. Post, then get sandwich next time.

*sighs at his slowness*

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Foreigner
post Jun 25 2005, 04:28 PM
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I sincerely hope that the photograph on that page is merely an advertising gimmick, i.e., for display purposes only.

Otherwise, the company logo on the dress vest's upper left chest/shoulder area is a dead giveaway--literally, if a kidnapper/assailant spots it.

:eek:

--Foreigner
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Herald of Verjig...
post Jun 25 2005, 04:41 PM
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But just imagine the market for unarmored vests with that same logo. All the psychological defense, none of the heavy materials.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jun 25 2005, 06:07 PM
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Foreigner: It looks like the logo can easily be taken off.
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Foreigner
post Jun 25 2005, 07:23 PM
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A.E.:

You're right.

It appears that the patch may be attached with Velcro rather than sewn on.

Evidently, I didn't look closely enough the first time.

--Foreigner
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Johnnycache
post Jun 26 2005, 08:27 AM
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I thought it was more for wearing with a jacket anyway - like to give a speech. If it's class III or better, it wouldn't fool anybody for long up close . . . concealment 8 :D
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Arethusa
post Jun 26 2005, 08:39 AM
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Who the hell wears vests these days, anyway? Might as well sell armored bow ties and bowler hats while they're at it.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jun 26 2005, 10:37 AM
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QUOTE (Johnnycache)
If it's class III or better, it wouldn't fool anybody for long up close [...]

If it were level III (which it isn't), it wouldn't fool anybody for a second at long distances if you have to move around even a bit. A 10" x 12", 1" thick rectangle resting at your center mass is hardly inconspicuous -- even less so when you'd have to pick up a separate carrier like these.
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Shanshu Freeman
post Jun 26 2005, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE (DrJest)
My Google-fu is weak - can anyone point me at a resource desribing the legality of body armour in the UK currently? Someone reading over my shoulder told me this stuff is illegal in Britain.

That makes me throw up a little in my mouth. :(

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ShadowDragon8685
post Jun 26 2005, 11:35 AM
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I'm pretty sure I could hide anything up to and including their Cougar vest under my leather greatcoat. :)


Hey, that would be armor stacking, woulden't it? P)
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jun 26 2005, 11:57 AM
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If you're a really big guy, your coat has a massive collar, and you have a habit of standing, walking, and doing everything else without bending your torso at all, then you might fool someone for a moment.
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DrJest
post Jun 26 2005, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman)
QUOTE (DrJest @ Jun 25 2005, 01:34 PM)
My Google-fu is weak - can anyone point me at a resource desribing the legality of body armour in the UK currently? Someone reading over my shoulder told me this stuff is illegal in Britain.

That makes me throw up a little in my mouth. :(

? I don't get it.
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Arethusa
post Jun 26 2005, 01:53 PM
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Many (Americans, mostly, but hardly all) find the removal of the right to arms repugnant. To deny people the right to wear armor, which is purely defensive, is a koo koo crizazy level of stupidity thrown on top, which seems to be where he's coming from.

Before this thread derails into a political discussion on the right to arms, self defense, and fascist governmental policies, don't. If you want to discuss that stuff, badger Adam to bring back the lounge and end his reign of tyranny (viva la revolucion, etc).

On topic, I still don't understand how they expect the vest styled vest to fool anyone.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jun 26 2005, 02:48 PM
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Nicely done with the "Here's what I think about a subject, but you aren't allowed to say what you think cause it's off-topic"-routine. It might be aggravating (regardless of how I personally feel about the subject) if it weren't so common.

QUOTE (Arethusa)
I still don't understand how they expect the vest styled vest to fool anyone.

Suit vests aren't quite as common these days as they once were, but they're far from a rarity. VIPs (who that vest is meant for) might well wear one just because they happen to like wearing them with suits. And the average member of the social circles where such vests are used is hardly going to suspect it's an armored vests -- at most he might think it's not very stylish.
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blakkie
post Jun 26 2005, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
On topic, I still don't understand how they expect the vest styled vest to fool anyone.

Fool? Or just not be so damn obvious.
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Arethusa
post Jun 26 2005, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
Nicely done with the "Here's what I think about a subject, but you aren't allowed to say what you think cause it's off-topic"-routine. It might be aggravating (regardless of how I personally feel about the subject) if it weren't so common.

The bit about the right to arms happens to line up more or less with my personal opinions, but I was not injecting it just for the fun of expressing my opinion while suppressing all dissent. I'll admit I was editorializing on the bit about armor, but that's because it really is insane to make purely defensive measure illegal. So nyah.

Seriously, I just want to avoid getting yet another thread closed because it derailed into talking about the right to arms. It happens enough here, and it'd be nice if it could happen less (possibly with an OT forum).

QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
Suit vests aren't quite as common these days as they once were, but they're far from a rarity. VIPs (who that vest is meant for) might well wear one just because they happen to like wearing them with suits. And the average member of the social circles where such vests are used is hardly going to suspect it's an armored vests -- at most he might think it's not very stylish.

That's a tough one to call. It doesn't look anything like a real piece of clothing, and I think most people who anything about clothes will notice that. The average exec isn't likely to know lots about body armor and small arms, though, so that one can go a lot of different ways.

It is very obvious, however, that something's up. Also, I would go so far as to call suit vests a rarity; not a complete anachronism like a bowler or a 19th century style collar, but even so.
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Kagetenshi
post Jun 26 2005, 03:27 PM
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Armor is incredibly far from purely defensive. I'd go so far as to say that its offensive possibilities are quite possibly richer than its defensive possibilities (in terms of allowing greater freedom of movement, etc.).

Note: this is not a comment on the correctness or incorrectness of banning it, or anything else along those lines, just a criticism of your reasoning coming to one of those opinions.

~J
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Arethusa
post Jun 26 2005, 03:55 PM
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I'm really not clear on how you're planning on hurting people with armor, but I guess I'm curious?
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Herald of Verjig...
post Jun 26 2005, 04:16 PM
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If a home intruder has a knife, and you have a .22 pistol, your chances of success are much better if the intruder is unarmored.

Offense and defense provide options. Without any tools for either, your options in combat are limited to getting the potentially dangerous parts of your body at the potentially weak parts of the opponent and usually trying to stop your opponent from doing the same to you. Weapons add new ways to make an attack work, and armor makes counterattacks potentially less dangerous.
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Arethusa
post Jun 26 2005, 04:21 PM
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Yeah, and if you're packing JHP rounds in your pistol, your chances of getting full expansion are a lot better if your opponent is naked.

Armor is still purely protective. Just because it can be used on the assault doesn't make it at all offensive. If I'm making an assault in unfamiliar, close quarters urban territory, chances are I'll be moving fast and may stand a good chance of smacking my head into something. Would you call a Pro Tec hockey helmet offensive just because it's useful on an assault?
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Foreigner
post Jun 26 2005, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
...Would you call a Pro Tec hockey helmet offensive just because it's useful on an assault?

Arethusa:

Only if your opponent got close enough for you to head-butt him/her. ;)

--Foreigner
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