The new rule of 6, Here is what I think it will be. Options

[Buzzed]

The rule of 6 might still be around in SR4. Here is what I think the new rule of 6 will be:


SR4 Rule of 6:

Whenever a die rolls a 6, it automatically grants the roller an additional die. Any additional dice rolled will also be eligable under the rule of 6.


This new rule of 6 will have the same translated effect as the old rule of 6. It would make it possible to do the impossible. Theoretically providing a possible unlimited number of successes from any number of dice. It would make it possible to do the impossible.

[hermit]

Do you have inside info, or is this just an educated guess?

[blakkie]

I'd like to see that too. Sadly it sounds like it will only happen when tapping your Edge. :(

I don't consider it terribly good news. Before that info came out i know someone here (forget their name, i think it started with an 'n') had suggested that exploding 6's were somewhat of a slowdown because of the number of times you needed to pick up dice and reroll. While that is true i do like what the exploding dice do for the roll outcomes.

I'll have to see how Edge actually works to see if it fills in and negates my disappointment.

[Buzzed]

[hermit]

The person-with-an-n (crimsondude3.0?) was right, though - this mechanic WOULD slow down gameplay significantly, as it would mean fiddling-more-dice-out-of-the-dice-box, and that would likely jeopardize any gains in speed made by ditching variable TN.

A simple "six counts as two hits" or something would go much faster and still have some sort of a rule of six, even though it was a capped, crippled one.

[blakkie]

[sanctusmortis]

6=2 successes worked for Exalted. Heck, it'd definately work.

[Hell Hound]

Whilst I haven't had a chance to actually play Exalted I am familiar with the rule system and it doesn't really feel the same as Shadowrun. If I recall correctly no success test would ever have a 'threshold' greater than 5 and most would only require 1 success. Exalted is also about characters on a heroic scale along the lines of greek mythology, in that situation being able to achieve significant results with one success makes sense, you don't want to be bothered with dice rolls for boring daily tasks when your characters are supposed to be out killing demi-gods. In Shadowrun there are more of those mundane tasks (searching the black market for goods, fencing stolen gear, checking in with your contacts, etc) and they are more important to the game than they are in Exalted because of the nature of Shadowrun. I can see Shadowrun 4th edition involving more dice per average roll than Exalted, thus thresholds will be higher and thus tasks may be impossible for characters with low skills and attributes even with the 'two successes for a 6' mechanic.

I may of course be proven completely wrong, and I hope I am, but I worry that the game may lose that little gem it always had in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition; that a character always had some chance of success in a test no matter how astronomical the difficulty.

[hermit]

Well, for that case where the low-skill, low-attribute character really wants to do something heroic and very, very hard to do, he has Edge, which seemingly has an exploding sixes mechanism. Just having this as regular mechanic would slow down the game to SR3 speed, and they sought to speed things up, didn't they?

Hmmm. This doesn't sound too bad, actually.

[Nerbert]

Exploding dice have nothing to do with SR3's speed. What slowed the game down was the constant necessity of counting and keeping track of two or three completely unrelated numbers, comparing all of them and translating them into game activities. Which is not to say that such a feat is difficult, its just annoying, cumbersome and breaks the feel of combat down into a bunch of empty dice rolling around with no actual drama.

[hermit]

No, exploding dice have nothing to do with SR3's slowness. I never said that. But it WOULD slow the game down significantly if it affected all rolled sixes.

[blakkie]

[Nerbert]

See, in my experience, rerolling dice is more fun then rolling them to begin with. It means you managed to pull off something special. I've never gone "Groan, not more 10s to reroll. Oh man! More! I'm doing so well at this action that I want to stop!" Plus, even other people watching have something to be excited about. "Well, thats one, two, three... wait, there's more. Four... five! Hooray!"

[Fortune]

I think an 'exploding 6' rule should be standard across the board, and that Edge should more resemble the old Karma Pool's reroll ability.

[Kremlin KOA]

incidentally it seems that exploding 6s give the same average success chance as 6= 2 successes... interesting how the math worked out

(as the explosions are extended infinately the chance becomes one extra success per 6 dice....)

[JesterX]

SR4 will be so much similar to Heavy Gear RPG! ^_^

Looks like the Margin of Success will work in a VERY similar way...

You can find more info on Heavy Gear products there: www.dp9.com

I just hope that this will not bring up some kind of lawsuits against FanPro...

[blakkie]

[Kremlin KOA]

let me just recheck the maths blakkie
using 6 dice as the example (makes the maths easier)
not going past 10 explosions (head hurts)

6 dice = 2 successes...

oh wait I see the error in my calculations

you were right

(typed in real time as I checked my notes

blakkie thanks for helping me notice my error

quickly explaining the calculations
6 dice = 2 successes
+ 1/3 of a success
+ 1/18 of a success
etc etc
had it at 2/3 of a success
interestingly all successes explode would produce the .5 chance

[blakkie]

[Taki]

[Kremlin KOA]

the .5 reference was a concept that if both 5s and 6s got rerooll + success you would get 1 success per 2 dice on average

[Taki]

Thanks.
I have misanderstood the "interestingly all successes explode would produce the .5 chance"
It is just what is writen ... let's say it's heat in my brain ...

[MYST1C]

This thread in the German FanPro forum sums up a FanPro Q&A held at a recent German convention.
A new Rule of 6 was presented there (but is not officially finalized) that is bound to the new Edge attribute (use not finalized, too):
When (and only when!) Edge is used to augment a dice roll sixes explode. This means they count as one "hit" (5 or 6) and may be re-rolled. Each one showing a 5 or 6 counts as another hit (it is not detailed if they explosion stops there or continues should further sixes be rolled).

The use of Edge as detailed there (subject to change) is like this:
How often and how much Edge can be used is regulated by the roll you augment with it.
Example: You have a Strength of 4. That means that during one adventure/session (timeframe not specified) you could use Edge 4 times to give up to 4 bonus dice (number of bonus dice is of course limited by your Edge value) for Strength-based checks.

[blakkie]

Interesting. Both '5's AND '6's explode. That makes it rather powerful. That also sounds a bit different than what mfb was talking about Edge "patching" things up -after- the roll failed. Damn i hope someone here with a keen memory goes to Origins this weekend. :)

EDIT: That would also mean you still only need 3 colours on pipless dice. One for '1' (assuming that is important for the new Rule of Ones, they didn't talk about that did they?), one for 2-4, and one for 5 & 6.

[MYST1C]