FanPro Germany Reveals stuff about SR4

FanPro Germany Reveals stuff about SR4, a translation from FanPro D's forums

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hermit

Jun 29 2005, 01:36 PM

Post #1

The King In Yellow

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See the original article here.

QUOTE

Posted by Bannockburn

You asked for it (you know what I'm talking about, Razz).

Topic #1: A short comprehension of changes (information here should be found in the FAQs, for the most part, but is provioded here again for comprehensiveness).

SR4 is supposed to be out at GenCon05.

Before it's out, the following sourcebooks are slated to hit the shops:
- Loose Alliances (already out in English)
- Shadows over Asia/Latin America (the latter either as a hardcopy book or in PDF form, a decision on that is up to FanPro US and has yet to be made).
- System Failure, which is intended to be a "passover campaign" between SR3 and SR4. System failure is supposed to tidy up the metaplot, tie up loose ends and create tabula rasa.

The intention of SR4 is to streamline the system by summarising rule mechanisms.

Riggers and deckers are integrated and there will be more emphasis put on integrating these characters into the game. The reason for this is riggers and deckers using similar hardware, but implement it differently (compare drones and programs, especially the remote control program).

Another (personal?) goal of Rob's is to make SR4 harsher and more gritty.

The BBB shall suffice for playing the game.

Street Magic will be the first source book to come out

Before SR4 is out, "Shadowrun: die 6. Welt", a book in novel format that offers background about Shadowrun's editorial background, short stories and interviews with the game's makers.

Running Wild will come out after SR4.

Old background books will still apply.

Topic #2: Questions [posed on the FanPro D forums, - hermit -]. I won't repeat the questions here and will just tell you the answers.

Block 1: Numbercrunching
Attributes stay as they are, only that Quickness and Intelligence are split into two, which is reaction and agility (working title?) respectively logic and perception. The reason is that even the dumb troll who can neither read nor write is able to spot someone on a roof, pointing a gun at him. Should be obvious. ;)

Magic is supposed to be a "buyable attribute" at chargen. This means you first purchase an Edge (magical talent) [ger. Vorteil, not sure if they really mean an Edge, - hermit -] and then invest building points into buying a magic attribute. How this attribute is suposed to be raised further ingame, especially with "I bought magical talent and instead of buying magic I bought me cyberware for two essence points" is still being finetuned, but it's being considered. Essence doesn't change.

The initiative system is seeing a reworking too. How, where and why is still being fine tuned and thus, I can't say anything about it.

Skills will be compressed respectively newly distributes. Thus, there will be the skills Pistols, short and long blade weapons [Kurz- und Langwaffen, if someone gets this translated better, I'd appreciate this, being no gun bunny myself, - hermit -], but also spell deflection, spell defense and ritual magic, and special hacking skills (hacking, remote controlling).

The current dice pools are being eliminated. Instead, the dice you roll for making tests is considered a dice pool.

Ther will be a fixed TN of 5 (fixed means it never changes, smartasses). Instead of leveling TV, difficulty is managed using a success threshold, which can be modified by surroundings, wounds and other fun stuff. Also, the number of dice rolled can be modified (dice added/removed) in certain circumstances (by cyberware, extremely difficult tasks, and such things).

A dice pool usually is a number of dice determined by adding skill level to attribute level, modified as stated above.

There will also be a special attribute that can be raised like all others. "Edge" is a mix between the old karma pool and the ordinary dice pools, and it can be used to make tests easier. This attribute also is intended to level the playing field for those intending to play non-cybered mundane characters.

You can add edge dice to your tests, based on the attribute's level. Only when this is done, may sixes be rolled again. Every additional 5 rolled then is counted as another success [hit? - hermit -] (this applies to the complete test). The use of edge also is limited by the attribute's level (meaning a number of dice at the attribute's level, to be used a number of times equal to the attribute's level). Edge is still being finetuned.

The damage model is being reworked. Damage will be split into weapons- and armour damage.

The damage screen will remain, but maybe the number of boxes will change with characters who have extraordinarily high or low body.

Knowledge skills will remain as they are, and language and knowledge skills will become even more similar.

Drain rules will change, too, but how hasn't been announced yet.

Block 2: Background
The new Matrix will work on a wireless W-Lan and personal area networks based technology.

Commercials and personal data can (and will) be displayed into the field of view.

The BBB will detail more than one location instead of, as was the case in all previous editions, to allow for more campaign backgrounds.

Cyberware will cost less!

Block 3: Editorial stuff
A campaign book by FanPro Germany, which will cover the years between 2065 and 2070, is in the works. It's unclear when it will be released.

FanPro Germany and FanPro Us will work together closely.

The BBB will be released in a limited edition, and will be hardcover again (and, maybe, for the first time, the English BB will be, too).

Bug City will be translated inteo German and adapted to current rules (meaning SR4), and will be rleeased soon.

Prices for sourcebooks and background material will remain roughly the same.

There will be six new WizKids novels - a trilogy, whose first two volumes (Born to Run and Poison Agenda, by Steve Kenson) are out in Germany already (though not in the States) and three standalone novels.

There, that's about it.

Poison Agenda is the English name for the second Kenson novel. I took that, interestingly enough, from the German book's editorial information.

Yoan

Jun 29 2005, 01:53 PM

Post #2

Moving Target

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QUOTE

Another (personal?) goal of Rob's is to make SR4 harsher and more gritty.

Judging from the cover art, all I have is...
:rotfl:

That aside: thanks for posting this!

blakkie

Jun 29 2005, 01:55 PM

Post #3

Dragon

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QUOTE

The damage screen will remain, but maybe the number of boxes will change with characters who have extraordinarily high or low body.

Emphasis mine. This is new. Of course SR3 already did this on overdamage, but this maybe hints that even reaching Deadly is now variable? That also opens the issue of what wound penalties kick in where. It is also likely to drive an even bigger wedge between the two different meanings of Deadly damage, if the both even survive.

EDIT: Maybe it'll also make Body an even more "must have as much as possible" Attribute? :( I know Body is always going to be important to the survival centered 'runner. But there are graduations, and i sure don't want to see Body as always the #1 obvious Attribute from a purely tactical evaluation. I'd settle for an obvious #2 or better, though i'd like to see it slip to sometimes #3 spot on obvious Attribute.

QUOTE

The BBB will detail more than one location instead of, as was the case in all previous editions, to allow for more campaign backgrounds.

This could be kinda cool. Seattle isn't so much the default anymore, acknowledging that the world fiction has grown enough that Seattle is nolonger the sole center of the SR universe.

QUOTE

Cyberware will cost less!

No more 1million :nuyen: starting PCs then?

QUOTE

Bug City will be translated inteo German and adapted to current rules (meaning SR4), and will be rleeased soon.

This is only Germany centric i think, but that is curious that they'd translate past world events forward to SR4 rules. I always thought that a dicey difficult job given the Matrix/hacker rule changes that are tied to the timeline.

EDIT: Yeah, thanks for translating and posting. :love:

blakkie

Jun 29 2005, 02:02 PM

Post #4

Dragon

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QUOTE (Yoan)

QUOTE

Another (personal?) goal of Rob's is to make SR4 harsher and more gritty.

Judging from the cover art, all I have is...
:rotfl:

Hey, there are a lot of people that critiqued that picture as being "harsh", in various ways. :grinbig:

Jrayjoker

Jun 29 2005, 02:02 PM

Post #5

Neophyte Runner

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QUOTE

The damage screen will remain, but maybe the number of boxes will change with characters who have extraordinarily high or low body.

Hmmmm, hit points. Me no like.

Eldritch View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 02:09 PM Post #6
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 19-August 02 Member No.: 3,139	Heh, ten boxes + 1 box per point of Body? Same for stun then + 1 box per will point? Hmmmmm

Yoan

Jun 29 2005, 02:10 PM

Post #7

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Jrayjoker)

QUOTE

The damage screen will remain, but maybe the number of boxes will change with characters who have extraordinarily high or low body.

Hmmmm, hit points. Me no like.

Exactly what I thought as well. I know the game Exalted has this, but I'm not sure about other White Wolf games. I never really liked it...

At all.
:(

blakkie

Jun 29 2005, 02:10 PM

Post #8

Dragon

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QUOTE (Jrayjoker @ Jun 29 2005, 08:02 AM)

QUOTE

The damage screen will remain, but maybe the number of boxes will change with characters who have extraordinarily high or low body.

Hmmmm, hit points. Me no like.

No, still damage boxes. Just not a fixed number of them. :^) Seriously though SR3 already does this partially in damage overflow. EDIT: Not saying i'd like it. Very hard to tell since it gave no details. But it does again underline how far they were willing to take apart the system to see what would work in SR4, whether or not varying number of damage boxes even got to the stage of playtesting.

Oh, something i missed:

QUOTE

The damage model is being reworked. Damage will be split into weapons- and armour damage.

I think maybe something got lost in translation here? (Not a dig at you hermit, once again thanks for the work.) Is this refering to the system no longer having weapon damage codes that are then influenced directly by the armour value?

Starglyte View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 02:19 PM Post #9
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 11-April 05 From: San Antonio, USA Member No.: 7,317	I'm not really bright. What does BBB stand for?

blakkie

Jun 29 2005, 02:21 PM

Post #10

Dragon

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QUOTE (Starglyte @ Jun 29 2005, 08:19 AM)

I'm not really bright. What does BBB stand for?

Big Black Book, the core SR rules book. Welcome to DSF. Remember to keep your hands inside your post at all times as many of the paracritters here have a nasty habit of biting. :eek:

Starglyte View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 02:31 PM Post #11
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 11-April 05 From: San Antonio, USA Member No.: 7,317	Thanks for the shadow speak. Still trying to get the lingo down.

hermit

Jun 29 2005, 03:42 PM

Post #12

The King In Yellow

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You're welcome, guys. Someone has to tell you, since FanPro themselves doesn't. :)

About the German-centric parts: I didn'T want to edit the post. I realise they are propably of little importance to you guys, but ... well, I figure you'd like to know anyway. Especially the bridge-the-gap adventure could be interesting, if you could get FanPro USA to translate and publish it ... I guess many of you would like it, too.

QUOTE

Hmmmm, hit points. Me no like.

That's EXACTLY what I thought. And this angers me. The HP-lessness of SR was always something I really held dear. I'm not one of the rules fetishists, by far not, but this is seriously pushing my limits. Still in the "wait and see" camp, but that doesn't make me feel better about SR4. At all. :(

QUOTE

I think maybe something got lost in translation here? (Not a dig at you hermit, once again thanks for the work.) Is this refering to the system no longer having weapon damage codes that are then influenced directly by the armour value?

Er ... I think not. The original text:

QUOTE

Das Schadensmodell wird ueberarbeitet. Schaden wird eingeteilt in Waffenschaden und Panzerungsschaden.

The most literal translation I can manage:
The damage model is being worked over/reviewed/changed. Damage is divided into weapons damage and armour damage.

It's more like it's generally cryptic. A less literal translation would be

QUOTE

Swordfish mustardball

blakkie View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 04:11 PM Post #13
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263	Damn Fanpro, always with the spicy seafood. :P

Jrayjoker View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 04:38 PM Post #14
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675	LOL :rotfl: :rotfl:

hermit

Jun 29 2005, 05:05 PM

Post #15

The King In Yellow

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Oh, one more thing:

QUOTE

The BBB will detail more than one location instead of [Seattle, my mistake, - hermit], as was the case in all previous editions, to allow for more campaign backgrounds.

I just hope that Germany is NOT one of these settings.

blakkie

Jun 29 2005, 05:11 PM

Post #16

Dragon

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QUOTE (hermit)

Oh, one more thing:

QUOTE

The BBB will detail more than one location instead of [Seattle, my mistake, - hermit], as was the case in all previous editions, to allow for more campaign backgrounds.

I just hope that Germany is NOT one of these settings.

I didn't think about that angle. Now that you mention it that might be a Fanpro Germany thing, where during localizing the German BBB they add fluff for that area. The new German SR4 BBB, now with German SB goodness injected directly into every customers orfice of choice. :|

Penta

Jun 29 2005, 05:12 PM

Post #17

Shooting Target

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It probably will be, Hermit.

QUOTE

Before SR4 is out, "Shadowrun: die 6. Welt", a book in novel format that offers background about Shadowrun's editorial background, short stories and interviews with the game's makers.

I WANT THIS BOOK IN ENGLISH! GAHHHH!

DrJest

Jun 29 2005, 05:23 PM

Post #18

Running Target

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QUOTE

The damage screen will remain, but maybe the number of boxes will change with characters who have extraordinarily high or low body.

<scratches head>

This could be similar to the NWoD way of handling it, where instead of a standard 7 health boxes (as per previous editions) you have a total based off of stamina plus something else that escapes me right now. It raises my "suspicious bastard" hackles because I'm still thinking in SR1-3 terms of weapon damage, and am not sure how it would apply. Since weapon damage is changing as well, however, my previous experience is likely to be inapplicable anyway.

Skarn Ka View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 05:28 PM Post #19
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 191 Joined: 26-February 02 From: East Jerusalem Member No.: 2,022	Do what I did. Learn German. ;)

hermit

Jun 29 2005, 05:29 PM

Post #20

The King In Yellow

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Well, maybe, just maybe, they won't drop into that trap. I sure hope so. Everyone I have played shadowrun with liked that part of the rules.

I refuse to judge until August. :)

QUOTE

Outbound to: Kashmir, India

I just noticed that! Hey, weren't you Israeli? Anyway, take care when going there. Breathtaking landscape ... but dangerous. :)

blakkie View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 05:30 PM Post #21
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263	What are other possible interpretations of the German to English for "damage screen"? Is this maybe a specific term from the SR3 German rules? After all it is "staying", so it is something that is in SR3. A "screen" being something that is obscuring could this be a reference to wound penalties. So the point at which the penalties kick in varies, not the boxes of damage before you are totally incompasitated? EDIT: Or a "screen" could also be a shield of some sort? So this is something to do with shielding damage in some way? That doesn't really jive with a change from SR3 since high body-low body was always an influence there, and this is talking about only the extremes making a difference...maybe.

hermit

Jun 29 2005, 05:40 PM

Post #22

The King In Yellow

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QUOTE

What are other possible interpretations of the German to English for "damage screen"?

"Schadensmonitor" specifically refers to the ten-box thingie that we hate to cross out boxes on, because it means our character is hurt. No other possibility. It's technical term.

Nerbert View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 06:03 PM Post #23
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 442 Joined: 23-April 04 From: Pennsylvania Member No.: 6,280	The biggest and most important differences between hitpoints and the damage screen is that hit points increase boundlessly. Additionally, they have no damage modifiers, there's no difference in your performance even if you're almost dead. What this new system suggests is that damage is no longer soaked. I find it highly doubtful that one high Karma person in SR4 will be equivilent to nine or ten normal people.

blakkie

Jun 29 2005, 06:09 PM

Post #24

Dragon

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QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 29 2005, 11:40 AM)

QUOTE

What are other possible interpretations of the German to English for "damage screen"?

"Schadensmonitor" specifically refers to the ten-box thingie that we hate to cross out boxes on, because it means our character is hurt. No other possibility. It's technical term.

So it is the equivalent to "Condition Monitor" in English, which is the proper term for those dual 10 boxes plus overflow. The overflow limit was already set at the Body of character. Hope they are just talking about that, or that it gets shot down in playtesting. *sigh*

EDIT: Just noticed Schadens is damage, right? Compounded with "monitor". So it is a partially anglisized word? (although "monitor" is used inside a few other words i've found, i'm pretty sure English didn't pick it up from German).

P.S. Although i might be able to live with extremely robust creatures, like a dragon, having it doubled up at 20 boxes or something. Effectively you damage them 1/2 boxes at a time. That would allow a granularity to those beasts, and things like naval vessels, that they never had. You always had to walk a very fine line to allow a threat of damage to them, but not let them get wacked with a couple lucky shots.

Nikoli View Member Profile	Jun 29 2005, 06:22 PM Post #25
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033	If it is German centric, scratch one player.

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