Initiative, 'Cuz its weird any way you look at it. Options

[Modesitt]

Ok. Now I have time for a serious response.

[frostPDP]

In game terms, the reflexes allow extra actions per turn. That sorta makes marginal sense. But if it allows extra actions, you're kinda moving fast.

And yeah, the idea isn't perfect but I'm trying to get things goin'. But I'm real sleepy so I'm writing stupidly.

[Stumps]

Nerfing is never the answer.
There's plenty of proof for that.

Rather than blindfolding a good dart player so that the underdog has a chance, it's generally better to just alter the rules of the dart game so that both have equal chance at winning.

The dart game here, is Initiative.

[ShadowDragon8685]

The dart game here is one played with bullets and people who are trying to kill the other player, not to play nice with him.

If you ain't got the reflexes to hack it, you deserve to get your butt shot off.

[Apathy]

Although it's not ideal, I prefer the SR3 init to anything anybody else here has posted.

SR2 had a real problem with Street Sams kill sucking up all the fun, because the high-init character killed everything before the mage got to even act. In SR3 that doesn't happen. The speed sam with MBW 4 still only gets one action before the injured, drunk mage with an effective init of 1 gets to go, so everybody gets to make an impact. Usually in the games I've seen the mages make more of an impact with their actions, because spells are so damn effective (ignores armor, targets opponent's will, unlimited range, etc). So it balances out that the sam gets more actions.

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Apathy]

[tisoz]

[ Spoiler ]

Don't have my books handy, so this is probably off by a point or two:
Speed Sam with Int 6, Quick 6 , Init 6+1D6
Super Thyroid (+2Q, +1R)
Adrenal Pump 2 (+2Q, +2R) [Is that right?]
Enhanced Articulation (+1R)
Wired 3 (+6R, +3D6Q)
Reaction Enhancers 6 (+6R)
Cerebral Boost 2 (+2I)
...adds up to around Int 8, Q 9, Init 24+4D6
max init 48


...and the drunk with init 1 would still get to act before the sam got his second pass.

[Critias]

Amateurs. Cue Mastercard voice:

[ Spoiler ]

Playing a Night One with Exception Int/Qui (7/9 base). 19 Character Points.

Suprathyroid Gland (+1Q +1 R). 50,000 nuyen.
Adrenal Pump 2 (+4 R). 100,000 nuyen.
Enhanced Articulation (+1R). 40,000 nuyen.
Muscle Toner 4 (+4Q). 100,000 nuyen.
Synaptic Accelerator 2 (+2d6). 200,000 nuyen.
Boosted Reflexes 3 (+2R +2d6). 90,000 nuyen.
Reaction Enhancer 6 (+6R). 360,000 nuyen.
Cerebral Booster 2 (+2 Int). 110,000 nuyen.
Dose of Cram (+1R +1d6) 20 nuyen.
Dose of Novacoke (+1R). 20 nuyen.
Dose of Pysche (+1 Int) 500 nuyen.
Dose of Kamikaze (+1Q, +1d6) 50 nuyen.
Dose of Jazz (+2Q, +1d6). 40 nuyen.

Int 10, Qui 17. Initiative 29 + 8d6. Maximum Init roll 77.

The look on your GM's face: Priceless.

[tisoz]

Exceptional Attribute Intelligence is a waste for this character to start, it does not come into play yet. What you want is Bonus Attribute Point for Quickness and Intelligence. You still need the Exceptional Attribute Quickness to exceed the Racial Maximum.

And I wasn't being amateurish, I was trying to keep him from being a cyber zombie.

[Critias]

Yeah, but buying him the Edges at start make sure he's got room to grow. He's got to put all that karma somewhere, to keep his edge and stay the fastest metahuman on the planet (or die trying, after enough doses of several nasty drugs).

[Stumps]

It's not a problem that fast characters get more actions.
It's a problem that slow characters typically have to wait until they can do something, other than the first time around.

It is far more involving to use systems that allow all players to span their actions out over the entire combat, and reward faster characters with more actions in that amount of time.

This doesn't mean that the slower characters don't do anything. It means that they do it slower.

This means that while a slow character would be doing a complex action (for example), a faster character would be doing two complex actions, or even two complex actions and a simple action.

I could go on to explain about 3 to 4 (at least) different ways of doing initiative for SR (two of which were Cain's Initiative System).

But I really don't seem to be in the mood right now to explode that much content onto the forum right now.

I'll put my favorite idea out there in the simplest and crude manner, as an example:

Fast:.........23, 13, 03
Medium:....15, 05
Slow:........08

................#1............#2............#3
Fast:.........23............13.............03
Medium:....15a..........15b...........05
Slow:........08a...........xx............08b

Order goes as follows: ("/" means "or")
#1
Fast (2 simple/1 complex)
Medium (1 simple/start complex)
Slow (1 simple/start complex)

#2
Medium (1 simple/finish-resolve complex)
Fast (2 simple/1 complex)
Slow (does not go)

#3
Slow (1 simple/finish-resolve complex)
Medium (2 simple/1 complex)
Fast (2 simple/1 complex)
==========================
First of all.

1. It's a system that is HIGHLY relative.
   
2. Whichever character has the highest Initiative is the Measuring stick by which all other character's actions are determined to spread out amongst.
   
3. There are two possible options for split up actions (a and b actions):
   1)The GM always determines how they are split up.
   2) The Player always determines how they are split up.
   
   It is up to the gamming group as to which version suits them best.
   (personally...I like option 2)
   
4. Complex actions that carry over from one pass to the next, are resolved entirely at the last half of the complex action. All rolls will be done then, and not upon the starting of the complex action.
   
5. For ease of headaches, no action is interruptible anymore than it already is by Cannon, regardless of it's continuation through other attacking character's turns.
   
   Basically, Complex actions can't be stopped in Cannon because someone else attacked the player, so there is no real need to add that complexity into this system.
   
   If you so did want to, by all means, add it in. I would best suggest an increasing TN modifier that would be added to the resolving action round for the attacked character. It just makes their task harder, and keeps the interruption concept simple.
   (But really...I wouldn't even bother with one.)
   
6. Yes. This does mean that Mage Spells can be started on round #1 and completed on round #3. (providing their initiative is single digit, and the fast player has a 21 or above)
   
7. No. This does not mean that Mage Spells can be stopped.
   
8. The only stipulation that changes from Cannon is that if the character is taking a complex action over multiple passes and is attacked in melee, they must choose to forfeit their complex action to engage in the melee, or take the damage straight on and continue their complex action.

Believe it or not.
This actually works pretty well.

Others have tried it locally, and they seem to like it's dissecting feel that makes it seem like the slow guys actually have something to do.
And, in fact, the slow guys can be found to go before others in later passes because of their "b" action carrying the higher number initiative from the "a" action.

The end result is that Fast guys are still faster, and slow guys are still slower, but slow guys have more chances to be involved throughout the bulk of the combat in exchange for a lesser rate of activity.