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> More news of Origins, yeah..I saw the good stuff
Caine Hazen
post Jul 3 2005, 09:31 AM
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Well I did demo 4th Srun today, also using my amazing stelth-ninja technology training, I managed to set hands on the holy grail, a playtest manuscript. As I took some time to look things over before returning it to a spot where it would be found and not missed...I can likely actually answer a few questions... because the NDA doesn't cover my @$$. I just got hoem though from an all night celebration there..so I won't post more than to say...

I liked the thing...chill out and look it over..play a demo if you can. There are definatly things I think the game needed in there, as well as things I didn't really expect...but I still liked it.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled flamewars...
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fistandantilus4....
post Jul 3 2005, 10:57 AM
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oh come on!

you couldn't take 5 more minutes to expalin just one little thing! Any one thing!?:?

I'll give you kaaarmaaaa :lick: mmmmm kaaarrmmaaa
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Thanos007
post Jul 3 2005, 11:43 AM
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Fortunately four you I went straight home and went to bed after I left the convention. BTW the title of this thread should be "True Origins". Any way....

Missed all the demos but talked to Rob at the booth and was at the seminar Saturday. Any thing I say is subject to correction and will be able to be verified later in the week as not only was there audio recorded but full video/audio as well.

From what I remember.

General: The BBB will be hard cover. Retail about 35.00. Special 1000 copies with 16 extra pages. Don't get excited it's only fiction. Each chapter will start off with a small fiction pice. No weights for equipment. Electronics are supposed to be more in line with current prices. (that means cheaper). Biotech will now cause essence loss, but less of it as compared to cyber. It will be more expensive than cyber.

Combat: Opposed test. Yes you will have a variable damage monitor. Base of 8 modified by willpower for mental and body for physical. Damage mods are +1 for every 3 boxes of damage. Weapons no longer have damage codes. They do have armour piercing value. It is possible to take mental damage from ranged weapons even if they do not do physical damage. If you use a weapon that can't beat a pc's armor then no physical damage.

Magic: In the BBB, which will be hard cover, right now they are covering watcher spirits and initiation. Initiation may be taken out due to word count. There are 2 types of spirits now. Unbound and bound. Any Tradition can summon a spirit on the fly. The sunrise/sunset rule applies. Binding a spirit is simular to a bound elemental. Multiple services/more uses as well as not being bound by sunrise/sunset. Skills are spell casting, summoning, binding, dispelling, banishing. There might be one or two more skills but I can't remember.

Hacking: MMM...can remember even less. Yes you can hack just about anything, including cyber limbs. This is of course under the right set of circumstances and with the proper equipment. Technomancers are more or less grown up otocu.

Thats it for now. As people ask questions and post I'm sure I'll remember more.

Thanos
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Phoniex
post Jul 3 2005, 11:55 AM
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Can you please tell me how Edge works? You said there is no more damage code, how do you differiencate between a light pistol and a full auto minigun? More dice to role?

-Is all armour hardened now? I mean assuming a pred still has armour piercing 9, if i wear 9 points of ballistic am i impervious? Is there still ballistic and impact armours.:)

I have many more questions:) I hope you enjoy origins.
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fistandantilus4....
post Jul 3 2005, 12:07 PM
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Thank you!
20 karma (non- redeemable or permissable for resale)
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Thanos007
post Jul 3 2005, 12:24 PM
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Edge functions just like Karma pool. Damn! Knew if forgot to ask something. Wanted to ask how the dice pools refresh. Didn't specifically ask about armor. The rest of your questions will have to wait as we didn't really get in to those things at the seminar.

Thanos
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fistandantilus4....
post Jul 3 2005, 12:26 PM
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following up on that, what is he point of initiation in SR4? Or perhaps I should say, is it still the same in principal? i.e. do you still gain a magic point (does your magic rating still determine phys/mental drain) and a metamagic?

Is spell defense another skill, or does that fall under dispelling?
you say combat is an opposed roll. Does that mean that if two people are shooting at each other, they cancel each other's successes like melee currently works? Or is it simply you roll against each other, and if you win, you hit?

Any news on rigging rules?

Thanks again Thanos (and Caine, sure you meant well :D ), and in advance
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mintcar
post Jul 3 2005, 12:33 PM
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Yeah, thank you Thanos. There´s got to be more though. Caine, please recover quickly! :)
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tisoz
post Jul 3 2005, 12:41 PM
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Saw the mention of splitting up magic skills, did they split up Computer or are technomancers going to be the new power monsters? (Sounds like Jake 2.0 had an influence.)
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Thanos007
post Jul 3 2005, 12:59 PM
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[/QUOTE]
QUOTE
what is he point of initiation in SR4? Or perhaps I should say, is it still the same in principal? i.e. do you still gain a magic point (does your magic rating still determine phys/mental drain) and a metamagic?


Initiation, as I understand it, is access to metamagic. Don't know about the magic point as magic is now an attribute. BTW deadly physical wounds don't have a risk of magic loss anymore. So all you mages out there. Get lit up as much as you want and keep your magic.

QUOTE
Is spell defense another skill, or does that fall under dispelling


Dispelling.

QUOTE
you say combat is an opposed roll. Does that mean that if two people are shooting at each other, they cancel each other's successes like melee currently works? Or is it simply you roll against each other, and if you win, you hit?


Maybe. Again the seminar was only an hour and we talked about other things than rules. Let's address terminology. A hit is a single die that is 5 or 6. You need a number of hits to get a success. If you roll the same number of 1's as hits you have a glitch. All I remember is that Rob said it was an opposed roll. Take that for what It's worth.

QUOTE
Any news on rigging rules


Some but I can't remember them right now.

QUOTE
Saw the mention of splitting up magic skills, did they split up Computer


Yes they did. Sorry Don't remember what they were called.

QUOTE
technomancers going to be the new power monsters


I don't know. Where otocu power monsters? They are adult otocu, for all intents and purposes.

[QUOTE](Sounds like Jake 2.0 had an influence.) [QUOTE]

I'd be willing to bet my soul that Jake 2.0 had 0% influence on SR4.

Thanos
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blakkie
post Jul 3 2005, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (Thanos007 @ Jul 3 2005, 05:43 AM)
It is possible to take mental damage from ranged weapons even if they do not do physical damage. If you use a weapon that can't beat a pc's armor then no physical damage.

It would have been cool if you had closed out this logic with: Even if the armour blocks physical damage it could still take mental damage. Did you leave that out as an oversight, is it not true, or did you just not bother ask?

QUOTE
No weights for equipment. Electronics are supposed to be more in line with current prices. (that means cheaper). Biotech will now cause essence loss, but less of it as compared to cyber. It will be more expensive than cyber.


Mixed yay (this could also be a last minute deal where they assign weights to equipment at the end after the equipment list is finalized). Yay looks like serious correction for inflation all the way round (with cyber costs down too). Yay one less 3 digit number to fuss with at PC creation.

QUOTE
Initiation may be taken out due to word count.

Boo.
QUOTE
If you roll the same number of 1's as hits you have a glitch.


The same or more 1's than hits, right?

QUOTE
Initiation, as I understand it, is access to metamagic. Don't know about the magic point as magic is now an attribute.


Here's hoping not.

QUOTE
BTW deadly physical wounds don't have a risk of magic loss anymore. So all you mages out there. Get lit up as much as you want and keep your magic.


But you still Magic Loss if you you die, right? ;)

QUOTE
Yes you will have a variable damage monitor. Base of 8 modified by willpower for mental and body for physical. Damage mods are +1 for every 3 boxes of damage.


Curious. So right before death & knockout the lowest body person can only have +4 damage mods? I think that all means it is fairly feasible to use only numbers and not boxes, unless you like boxes (which i do).
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tisoz
post Jul 3 2005, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
Curious. So right before death & knockout the lowest body person can only have +4 damage mods?

He said Base 8 Modified, so who knows yet. If the character has below average Body, they may get a negative modifier.
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Thanos007
post Jul 3 2005, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE (Thanos007 @ Jul 3 2005, 05:43 AM)
It is possible to take mental damage from ranged weapons even if they do not do physical damage. If you use a weapon that can't beat a pc's armor then no physical damage.



It would have been cool if you had closed out this logic with: Even if the armour blocks physical damage it could still take mental damage. Did you leave that out as an oversight, is it not true, or did you just not bother ask?


Not quite sure how that works. Again this was not a demo but a seminar. How ever I belive that is correct. That if the armor blocks physical damage you can still take mental.

Overall statement regarding combat. Rob said it would be harder to hit but if you do you'll do more damage. Or along those lines.

2nd overall note. Rob said that most of the rules are locked but there is still some minor tweaking going on.

Just to rub your noses in it. They had a mock up of Shadows of Asia there. Essentualy the book but not bound. Just looked at the art and some of it was very good.

Speaking of art. Saw finished art for the Achtypes. DAMN! Some good stuff. This stuff should have been on the cover.

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hobgoblin
post Jul 3 2005, 03:20 PM
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hmm, so even tho someone armors up all the way they can still be knocked out if they are hit with enough lead or fast-flying objects. if thats the case then nice ;) no more need for knockback as the person will go down the moment his mental monitor is maxed...

and i like the sound of those unbound spirits. nothing like calling for a walking bonfire all the time :silly:

i must say that im looking forward to SR4.

hmm, hardcover. as in, the BBB will be hardcover as the norm rather then as a limited print run this time?
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Thanos007
post Jul 3 2005, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE
hmm, hardcover. as in, the BBB will be hardcover as the norm rather then as a limited print run this time?


Yes.

QUOTE
nice  no more need for knockback



If there is no knockback how else will the pc's fear being knocked off catwalks, ladders and the such?

Thanos
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kylleran
post Jul 3 2005, 03:43 PM
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To add additional clarification to Thanos' posts:

1. By mental he's talking about stun damage. Basically you take stun if your armor exceeds the amount of damage you're taking. Weapons have two values, a damage value, which is a number of boxes of damage they do, and an armor piercing value which is how much armor they negate.

2. Combat is an opposed test, but it's an opposed firearms vs. dodge test, not opposed firearm vs. firearm.

3. Edge doesn't function exactly like karma pool. It does more than karma pool used to do.

4. Computer has been broken up into several skills.

5. Hey (guys who worked on the Matrix chapter) did Jake 2.0 have an influence on your writing of the chapter?
GWWotMC: Huh? What? What's Jake 2.0? No seriously. What is it?

6. Remember nothing you read here is finalized until it is confirmed or denied on the main site. The only way to find out what makes it into the finished product is buy the book and see for yourself.

Oh and I totally hax0r3d that park bench. pwn3d!
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Caine Hazen
post Jul 3 2005, 03:56 PM
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Quick reply before I run events today....Metal damage is now stun damage...that explains the armor bit.... I'll answer a bit more later on today when I get home, but everything Thanos is going over WILL be in the podcast that will air sometime. I took video of the Sr4 and QA...if I can put it up somewhere..and the sound is good, I'll do it sometime later this afternoon too
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Penta
post Jul 3 2005, 04:16 PM
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Something I've not heard answer on: Matrix....

1. With all the AR stuff, what's the deal with the "internet" side of the Matrix (in terms of as a comm medium, as global entity, etc.)?

2. What's the speed of combat and such like compared to SR3? I regulatly saw moderate-sized pistol fights taking 3-4 hours under SR3.
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GunnerJ
post Jul 3 2005, 05:33 PM
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Not happy about all spirits being summoned on the fly and using the nature spirit dawn/dusk rule, at all.
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langolas
post Jul 3 2005, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE (GunnerJ)
Not happy about all spirits being summoned on the fly and using the nature spirit dawn/dusk rule, at all.

Meh. If that is the case I'll still use the separate spirit summoning from SR3. I never use the rulebook as the bible, just as guidelines. If I don't like it I don't use it.
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Snow_Fox
post Jul 3 2005, 06:05 PM
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Where is it set? I'd heard Seattle has been abandoned, at least by the game designers
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Thanos007
post Jul 3 2005, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE
Where is it set? I'd heard Seattle has been abandoned, at least by the game designers


No. Seattle has not been abandoned. Just reduced in importance. There will be, if I'm remembering this correctly, 3 default settings in the BBB. Over all the world meta plot will be replaced by more "street level" plots that happen in six "core" settings. Seattle being one of them. Rob rattled off some of the other ones but I can't recall now what they were.

Thanos
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Starglyte
post Jul 3 2005, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (Thanos007)


No. Seattle has not been abandoned. Just reduced in importance. There will be, if I'm remembering this correctly, 3 default settings in the BBB. Over all the world meta plot will be replaced by more "street level" plots that happen in six "core" settings. Seattle being one of them. Rob rattled off some of the other ones but I can't recall now what they were.

Thanos

Now that sounds cool. I hope Tokyo and Vladivostok are one of the six core settings. It would be neat to have a NAN core setting as well.
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langolas
post Jul 3 2005, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (Thanos007)
QUOTE
Where is it set? I'd heard Seattle has been abandoned, at least by the game designers


No. Seattle has not been abandoned. Just reduced in importance. There will be, if I'm remembering this correctly, 3 default settings in the BBB. Over all the world meta plot will be replaced by more "street level" plots that happen in six "core" settings. Seattle being one of them. Rob rattled off some of the other ones but I can't recall now what they were.

Thanos

3 settings? that will be a welcome change. Not that I don't like Seattle, but I generally have to run my players to other locations for a bit of flavor. They generally want to go as well as when they are being hunted in their known hangouts in Seattle ;)
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Mr. Man
post Jul 3 2005, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Thanos007)
Special 1000 copies with 16 extra pages.

Any other info on the special edition? Like how much it will cost?
QUOTE
No weights for equipment.

WTF?! Is there some other piece of info that causes this to make sense? Because right now it doesn't.
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