Well I did demo 4th Srun today, also using my amazing stelth-ninja technology training, I managed to set hands on the holy grail, a playtest manuscript. As I took some time to look things over before returning it to a spot where it would be found and not missed...I can likely actually answer a few questions... because the NDA doesn't cover my @$$. I just got hoem though from an all night celebration there..so I won't post more than to say...
I liked the thing...chill out and look it over..play a demo if you can. There are definatly things I think the game needed in there, as well as things I didn't really expect...but I still liked it.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled flamewars...
Full Version: More news of Origins
oh come on!
you couldn't take 5 more minutes to expalin just one little thing! Any one thing!?
I'll give you kaaarmaaaa
mmmmm kaaarrmmaaa
you couldn't take 5 more minutes to expalin just one little thing! Any one thing!?
I'll give you kaaarmaaaa
mmmmm kaaarrmmaaa
Fortunately four you I went straight home and went to bed after I left the convention. BTW the title of this thread should be "True Origins". Any way....
Missed all the demos but talked to Rob at the booth and was at the seminar Saturday. Any thing I say is subject to correction and will be able to be verified later in the week as not only was there audio recorded but full video/audio as well.
From what I remember.
General: The BBB will be hard cover. Retail about 35.00. Special 1000 copies with 16 extra pages. Don't get excited it's only fiction. Each chapter will start off with a small fiction pice. No weights for equipment. Electronics are supposed to be more in line with current prices. (that means cheaper). Biotech will now cause essence loss, but less of it as compared to cyber. It will be more expensive than cyber.
Combat: Opposed test. Yes you will have a variable damage monitor. Base of 8 modified by willpower for mental and body for physical. Damage mods are +1 for every 3 boxes of damage. Weapons no longer have damage codes. They do have armour piercing value. It is possible to take mental damage from ranged weapons even if they do not do physical damage. If you use a weapon that can't beat a pc's armor then no physical damage.
Magic: In the BBB, which will be hard cover, right now they are covering watcher spirits and initiation. Initiation may be taken out due to word count. There are 2 types of spirits now. Unbound and bound. Any Tradition can summon a spirit on the fly. The sunrise/sunset rule applies. Binding a spirit is simular to a bound elemental. Multiple services/more uses as well as not being bound by sunrise/sunset. Skills are spell casting, summoning, binding, dispelling, banishing. There might be one or two more skills but I can't remember.
Hacking: MMM...can remember even less. Yes you can hack just about anything, including cyber limbs. This is of course under the right set of circumstances and with the proper equipment. Technomancers are more or less grown up otocu.
Thats it for now. As people ask questions and post I'm sure I'll remember more.
Thanos
Missed all the demos but talked to Rob at the booth and was at the seminar Saturday. Any thing I say is subject to correction and will be able to be verified later in the week as not only was there audio recorded but full video/audio as well.
From what I remember.
General: The BBB will be hard cover. Retail about 35.00. Special 1000 copies with 16 extra pages. Don't get excited it's only fiction. Each chapter will start off with a small fiction pice. No weights for equipment. Electronics are supposed to be more in line with current prices. (that means cheaper). Biotech will now cause essence loss, but less of it as compared to cyber. It will be more expensive than cyber.
Combat: Opposed test. Yes you will have a variable damage monitor. Base of 8 modified by willpower for mental and body for physical. Damage mods are +1 for every 3 boxes of damage. Weapons no longer have damage codes. They do have armour piercing value. It is possible to take mental damage from ranged weapons even if they do not do physical damage. If you use a weapon that can't beat a pc's armor then no physical damage.
Magic: In the BBB, which will be hard cover, right now they are covering watcher spirits and initiation. Initiation may be taken out due to word count. There are 2 types of spirits now. Unbound and bound. Any Tradition can summon a spirit on the fly. The sunrise/sunset rule applies. Binding a spirit is simular to a bound elemental. Multiple services/more uses as well as not being bound by sunrise/sunset. Skills are spell casting, summoning, binding, dispelling, banishing. There might be one or two more skills but I can't remember.
Hacking: MMM...can remember even less. Yes you can hack just about anything, including cyber limbs. This is of course under the right set of circumstances and with the proper equipment. Technomancers are more or less grown up otocu.
Thats it for now. As people ask questions and post I'm sure I'll remember more.
Thanos
Can you please tell me how Edge works? You said there is no more damage code, how do you differiencate between a light pistol and a full auto minigun? More dice to role?
-Is all armour hardened now? I mean assuming a pred still has armour piercing 9, if i wear 9 points of ballistic am i impervious? Is there still ballistic and impact armours.
I have many more questions:) I hope you enjoy origins.
-Is all armour hardened now? I mean assuming a pred still has armour piercing 9, if i wear 9 points of ballistic am i impervious? Is there still ballistic and impact armours.
I have many more questions:) I hope you enjoy origins.
Thank you!
20 karma (non- redeemable or permissable for resale)
20 karma (non- redeemable or permissable for resale)
Edge functions just like Karma pool. Damn! Knew if forgot to ask something. Wanted to ask how the dice pools refresh. Didn't specifically ask about armor. The rest of your questions will have to wait as we didn't really get in to those things at the seminar.
Thanos
Thanos
following up on that, what is he point of initiation in SR4? Or perhaps I should say, is it still the same in principal? i.e. do you still gain a magic point (does your magic rating still determine phys/mental drain) and a metamagic?
Is spell defense another skill, or does that fall under dispelling?
you say combat is an opposed roll. Does that mean that if two people are shooting at each other, they cancel each other's successes like melee currently works? Or is it simply you roll against each other, and if you win, you hit?
Any news on rigging rules?
Thanks again Thanos (and Caine, sure you meant well
), and in advance
Is spell defense another skill, or does that fall under dispelling?
you say combat is an opposed roll. Does that mean that if two people are shooting at each other, they cancel each other's successes like melee currently works? Or is it simply you roll against each other, and if you win, you hit?
Any news on rigging rules?
Thanks again Thanos (and Caine, sure you meant well
), and in advance
Yeah, thank you Thanos. Thereīs got to be more though. Caine, please recover quickly!
Saw the mention of splitting up magic skills, did they split up Computer or are technomancers going to be the new power monsters? (Sounds like Jake 2.0 had an influence.)
[/QUOTE]
| QUOTE |
| what is he point of initiation in SR4? Or perhaps I should say, is it still the same in principal? i.e. do you still gain a magic point (does your magic rating still determine phys/mental drain) and a metamagic? |
Initiation, as I understand it, is access to metamagic. Don't know about the magic point as magic is now an attribute. BTW deadly physical wounds don't have a risk of magic loss anymore. So all you mages out there. Get lit up as much as you want and keep your magic.
| QUOTE |
| Is spell defense another skill, or does that fall under dispelling |
Dispelling.
| QUOTE |
| you say combat is an opposed roll. Does that mean that if two people are shooting at each other, they cancel each other's successes like melee currently works? Or is it simply you roll against each other, and if you win, you hit? |
Maybe. Again the seminar was only an hour and we talked about other things than rules. Let's address terminology. A hit is a single die that is 5 or 6. You need a number of hits to get a success. If you roll the same number of 1's as hits you have a glitch. All I remember is that Rob said it was an opposed roll. Take that for what It's worth.
| QUOTE |
| Any news on rigging rules |
Some but I can't remember them right now.
| QUOTE |
| Saw the mention of splitting up magic skills, did they split up Computer |
Yes they did. Sorry Don't remember what they were called.
| QUOTE |
| technomancers going to be the new power monsters |
I don't know. Where otocu power monsters? They are adult otocu, for all intents and purposes.
[QUOTE](Sounds like Jake 2.0 had an influence.) [QUOTE]
I'd be willing to bet my soul that Jake 2.0 had 0% influence on SR4.
Thanos
| QUOTE (Thanos007 @ Jul 3 2005, 05:43 AM) |
| It is possible to take mental damage from ranged weapons even if they do not do physical damage. If you use a weapon that can't beat a pc's armor then no physical damage. |
It would have been cool if you had closed out this logic with: Even if the armour blocks physical damage it could still take mental damage. Did you leave that out as an oversight, is it not true, or did you just not bother ask?
| QUOTE |
| No weights for equipment. Electronics are supposed to be more in line with current prices. (that means cheaper). Biotech will now cause essence loss, but less of it as compared to cyber. It will be more expensive than cyber. |
Mixed yay (this could also be a last minute deal where they assign weights to equipment at the end after the equipment list is finalized). Yay looks like serious correction for inflation all the way round (with cyber costs down too). Yay one less 3 digit number to fuss with at PC creation.
| QUOTE |
| Initiation may be taken out due to word count. |
Boo.
| QUOTE |
| If you roll the same number of 1's as hits you have a glitch. |
The same or more 1's than hits, right?
| QUOTE |
| Initiation, as I understand it, is access to metamagic. Don't know about the magic point as magic is now an attribute. |
Here's hoping not.
| QUOTE |
| BTW deadly physical wounds don't have a risk of magic loss anymore. So all you mages out there. Get lit up as much as you want and keep your magic. |
But you still Magic Loss if you you die, right?
| QUOTE |
| Yes you will have a variable damage monitor. Base of 8 modified by willpower for mental and body for physical. Damage mods are +1 for every 3 boxes of damage. |
Curious. So right before death & knockout the lowest body person can only have +4 damage mods? I think that all means it is fairly feasible to use only numbers and not boxes, unless you like boxes (which i do).
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| Curious. So right before death & knockout the lowest body person can only have +4 damage mods? |
He said Base 8 Modified, so who knows yet. If the character has below average Body, they may get a negative modifier.
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (Thanos007 @ Jul 3 2005, 05:43 AM) It is possible to take mental damage from ranged weapons even if they do not do physical damage. If you use a weapon that can't beat a pc's armor then no physical damage. It would have been cool if you had closed out this logic with: Even if the armour blocks physical damage it could still take mental damage. Did you leave that out as an oversight, is it not true, or did you just not bother ask? |
Not quite sure how that works. Again this was not a demo but a seminar. How ever I belive that is correct. That if the armor blocks physical damage you can still take mental.
Overall statement regarding combat. Rob said it would be harder to hit but if you do you'll do more damage. Or along those lines.
2nd overall note. Rob said that most of the rules are locked but there is still some minor tweaking going on.
Just to rub your noses in it. They had a mock up of Shadows of Asia there. Essentualy the book but not bound. Just looked at the art and some of it was very good.
Speaking of art. Saw finished art for the Achtypes. DAMN! Some good stuff. This stuff should have been on the cover.
hmm, so even tho someone armors up all the way they can still be knocked out if they are hit with enough lead or fast-flying objects. if thats the case then nice no more need for knockback as the person will go down the moment his mental monitor is maxed...
and i like the sound of those unbound spirits. nothing like calling for a walking bonfire all the time
i must say that im looking forward to SR4.
hmm, hardcover. as in, the BBB will be hardcover as the norm rather then as a limited print run this time?
no more need for knockback as the person will go down the moment his mental monitor is maxed...and i like the sound of those unbound spirits. nothing like calling for a walking bonfire all the time
i must say that im looking forward to SR4.
hmm, hardcover. as in, the BBB will be hardcover as the norm rather then as a limited print run this time?
| QUOTE |
| hmm, hardcover. as in, the BBB will be hardcover as the norm rather then as a limited print run this time? |
Yes.
| QUOTE |
| nice no more need for knockback |
If there is no knockback how else will the pc's fear being knocked off catwalks, ladders and the such?
Thanos
To add additional clarification to Thanos' posts:
1. By mental he's talking about stun damage. Basically you take stun if your armor exceeds the amount of damage you're taking. Weapons have two values, a damage value, which is a number of boxes of damage they do, and an armor piercing value which is how much armor they negate.
2. Combat is an opposed test, but it's an opposed firearms vs. dodge test, not opposed firearm vs. firearm.
3. Edge doesn't function exactly like karma pool. It does more than karma pool used to do.
4. Computer has been broken up into several skills.
5. Hey (guys who worked on the Matrix chapter) did Jake 2.0 have an influence on your writing of the chapter?
GWWotMC: Huh? What? What's Jake 2.0? No seriously. What is it?
6. Remember nothing you read here is finalized until it is confirmed or denied on the main site. The only way to find out what makes it into the finished product is buy the book and see for yourself.
Oh and I totally hax0r3d that park bench. pwn3d!
1. By mental he's talking about stun damage. Basically you take stun if your armor exceeds the amount of damage you're taking. Weapons have two values, a damage value, which is a number of boxes of damage they do, and an armor piercing value which is how much armor they negate.
2. Combat is an opposed test, but it's an opposed firearms vs. dodge test, not opposed firearm vs. firearm.
3. Edge doesn't function exactly like karma pool. It does more than karma pool used to do.
4. Computer has been broken up into several skills.
5. Hey (guys who worked on the Matrix chapter) did Jake 2.0 have an influence on your writing of the chapter?
GWWotMC: Huh? What? What's Jake 2.0? No seriously. What is it?
6. Remember nothing you read here is finalized until it is confirmed or denied on the main site. The only way to find out what makes it into the finished product is buy the book and see for yourself.
Oh and I totally hax0r3d that park bench. pwn3d!
Quick reply before I run events today....Metal damage is now stun damage...that explains the armor bit.... I'll answer a bit more later on today when I get home, but everything Thanos is going over WILL be in the podcast that will air sometime. I took video of the Sr4 and QA...if I can put it up somewhere..and the sound is good, I'll do it sometime later this afternoon too
Something I've not heard answer on: Matrix....
1. With all the AR stuff, what's the deal with the "internet" side of the Matrix (in terms of as a comm medium, as global entity, etc.)?
2. What's the speed of combat and such like compared to SR3? I regulatly saw moderate-sized pistol fights taking 3-4 hours under SR3.
1. With all the AR stuff, what's the deal with the "internet" side of the Matrix (in terms of as a comm medium, as global entity, etc.)?
2. What's the speed of combat and such like compared to SR3? I regulatly saw moderate-sized pistol fights taking 3-4 hours under SR3.
Not happy about all spirits being summoned on the fly and using the nature spirit dawn/dusk rule, at all.
| QUOTE (GunnerJ) |
| Not happy about all spirits being summoned on the fly and using the nature spirit dawn/dusk rule, at all. |
Meh. If that is the case I'll still use the separate spirit summoning from SR3. I never use the rulebook as the bible, just as guidelines. If I don't like it I don't use it.
Where is it set? I'd heard Seattle has been abandoned, at least by the game designers
| QUOTE |
| Where is it set? I'd heard Seattle has been abandoned, at least by the game designers |
No. Seattle has not been abandoned. Just reduced in importance. There will be, if I'm remembering this correctly, 3 default settings in the BBB. Over all the world meta plot will be replaced by more "street level" plots that happen in six "core" settings. Seattle being one of them. Rob rattled off some of the other ones but I can't recall now what they were.
Thanos
| QUOTE (Thanos007) |
| No. Seattle has not been abandoned. Just reduced in importance. There will be, if I'm remembering this correctly, 3 default settings in the BBB. Over all the world meta plot will be replaced by more "street level" plots that happen in six "core" settings. Seattle being one of them. Rob rattled off some of the other ones but I can't recall now what they were. Thanos |
Now that sounds cool. I hope Tokyo and Vladivostok are one of the six core settings. It would be neat to have a NAN core setting as well.
| QUOTE (Thanos007) | ||
No. Seattle has not been abandoned. Just reduced in importance. There will be, if I'm remembering this correctly, 3 default settings in the BBB. Over all the world meta plot will be replaced by more "street level" plots that happen in six "core" settings. Seattle being one of them. Rob rattled off some of the other ones but I can't recall now what they were. Thanos |
3 settings? that will be a welcome change. Not that I don't like Seattle, but I generally have to run my players to other locations for a bit of flavor. They generally want to go as well as when they are being hunted in their known hangouts in Seattle
| QUOTE (Thanos007) |
| Special 1000 copies with 16 extra pages. |
Any other info on the special edition? Like how much it will cost?
| QUOTE |
| No weights for equipment. |
WTF?! Is there some other piece of info that causes this to make sense? Because right now it doesn't.
Maybe they'll add generic kit weights, ie a pistol weighs this on average?
Or maybe a new system that just limits carryable kit?
Or maybe a new system that just limits carryable kit?
Or maybe this is a game were the situations are few were you need to worry about how much you can carry around, so itīs just unnecessary work. But I donīt see why they would keep it out of the book. Itīs such an easy thing for people like me to ignore anyway.
Any info on chargen, like attribute costs? There was a hint it would be expensive to have a high attribute.
Anything on the Attribute + Skill that balances high Att/low skill concerns? Like how an unskilled troll could womp on little martial arts master.
Anything on the Attribute + Skill that balances high Att/low skill concerns? Like how an unskilled troll could womp on little martial arts master.
| QUOTE (kylleran) |
| 5. Hey (guys who worked on the Matrix chapter) did Jake 2.0 have an influence on your writing of the chapter? GWWotMC: Huh? What? What's Jake 2.0? No seriously. What is it? |
Google is your friend. I personally can't fill you in anymore than that, i haven't had cable/satelite TV in years. However given that it was cancelled and didn't even manage to raise a cult following that i've heard of i suspect it was the suxxor. *shrug*
| QUOTE (Caine Hazen @ Jul 3 2005, 09:56 AM) |
| Quick reply before I run events today....Metal damage is now stun damage...that explains the armor bit.... |
That's good news, i think. I do agree with Thanos007, there is still a place for instance based knockback. Though if they are calculating stun damage anyway that is a good place for it to go from, no?
| QUOTE |
| I took video of the Sr4 and QA...if I can put it up somewhere..and the sound is good, I'll do it sometime later this afternoon too |
I've got a pile of space, but i'm not sure about bandwidth. How big are we talking? I'm not sure where my bandwidth usage is at right now, and i don't have experience with setting up a Bit Torrent tracker after we use my space to privately set up a number of seeds.
Well, this is all good news to me. I like the change in summoning. In fact when I first started playing I read the rules wrong and that's how we did it all the time.
I also like the Armor Piercing and Damage number. Conceptually, it is similiar to how I envisioned Power working.
I guess what I'm saying is that SR4 seems to be something that I will be comfortable with.
I also like the Armor Piercing and Damage number. Conceptually, it is similiar to how I envisioned Power working.
I guess what I'm saying is that SR4 seems to be something that I will be comfortable with.
Ok..to go over a few things...the bound vs unbound spirits...Everyone will be able to summmon both types of spirits, the unbound are like the old shaman type, the bound like the hermetic. So both spirits are still there, just every tradition has access to them. If I remember correctly there are 6 base spirits and every tradition chooses 5 they can summon (or are determined by tradition). More will be added in the Magic book. Magic loss is gone.... you start with 3 magic points now too instead of 6 (like all atributes are capped at) skills will now be grouped aso that you can buy a group vs a single skill
Matrix...cause it's been asked: looks like the mechanics are the same...all stuff now uses one of 3 dice rools. The opposed, which looks like alot of the game's stuff is based on, the open...so you continue the test until you get X# of successes, and the straight 1 roll with a need for a certian # of successes. thus, everything uses this type of style...from what I saw in the book, lots of hacking tests are opposed, programming are open so you can see it looks like it will all flow a little faster. Note...to quote Rob here also "controlling a drone is the same as hacking a computer now" but it looks like the VCR adds some big bonuses to this...so "riggers" still have a place, but they can also be the multi role guy on a team. Also, the matrix now involves the whole "augmented reality" which means that your PDA/minicomputer can overlay extra info to you...which translates into bonus dice for some actions.
I don't remember if this was covered so I'll go over it some...base campaign settings looked like 6 (watching the video I took now, just heard that again) a Srun character is made from 400 pts, the basic rules include that 300 pts for a low end camapaign, 500 for a high power start. I didn't get to see all the pt breakdowns, but it loked like attributes are the bloody expensive thing.
The new smartgun links are wireless..can be hacked...and do incl;ude cameras to shot around corners.
There is a Gamemaster section to the book...with stuff on how to tweek the game style...lots of good stuff in there...unfortunatly some ares stull had the <to be filled by X> tag on them...so I didn't get to see it all
Contacts have 2 ratings now...one for what they know and can do, another for loyalty.
Side note....I need a good video editing proggy...this stuff I got is decent..you can hear most of it...but it's 44 mins of the Sr4 stuff, and it's 58 meg right now...so if anyone wants to see rthis before the podcast, let me know.
Ok...that is all for now...more later as I recover from Bar on 2 LARP....I lurve you Bull!!
Matrix...cause it's been asked: looks like the mechanics are the same...all stuff now uses one of 3 dice rools. The opposed, which looks like alot of the game's stuff is based on, the open...so you continue the test until you get X# of successes, and the straight 1 roll with a need for a certian # of successes. thus, everything uses this type of style...from what I saw in the book, lots of hacking tests are opposed, programming are open so you can see it looks like it will all flow a little faster. Note...to quote Rob here also "controlling a drone is the same as hacking a computer now" but it looks like the VCR adds some big bonuses to this...so "riggers" still have a place, but they can also be the multi role guy on a team. Also, the matrix now involves the whole "augmented reality" which means that your PDA/minicomputer can overlay extra info to you...which translates into bonus dice for some actions.
I don't remember if this was covered so I'll go over it some...base campaign settings looked like 6 (watching the video I took now, just heard that again) a Srun character is made from 400 pts, the basic rules include that 300 pts for a low end camapaign, 500 for a high power start. I didn't get to see all the pt breakdowns, but it loked like attributes are the bloody expensive thing.
The new smartgun links are wireless..can be hacked...and do incl;ude cameras to shot around corners.
There is a Gamemaster section to the book...with stuff on how to tweek the game style...lots of good stuff in there...unfortunatly some ares stull had the <to be filled by X> tag on them...so I didn't get to see it all
Contacts have 2 ratings now...one for what they know and can do, another for loyalty.
Side note....I need a good video editing proggy...this stuff I got is decent..you can hear most of it...but it's 44 mins of the Sr4 stuff, and it's 58 meg right now...so if anyone wants to see rthis before the podcast, let me know.
Ok...that is all for now...more later as I recover from Bar on 2 LARP....I lurve you Bull!!
Oh...one thing I didn't see here yet on the whole bunch of these thread...books for 4th ed they talked about.
The core book
Arsenal (cannon companion replacement and extra equimpment...including vehicles)
The Magic source book
The bio/cyber book
a players guide
a Gamemastters guide
something I'm forgetting here...
they also mentioned that the place books are going back into being more like the Target:X books, with a few places and more ideas for expansion vs a wjhole veiw of large areas
The core book
Arsenal (cannon companion replacement and extra equimpment...including vehicles)
The Magic source book
The bio/cyber book
a players guide
a Gamemastters guide
something I'm forgetting here...
they also mentioned that the place books are going back into being more like the Target:X books, with a few places and more ideas for expansion vs a wjhole veiw of large areas
| QUOTE (Caine Hazen @ Jul 3 2005, 04:07 PM) |
| Contacts have 2 ratings now...one for what they know and can do, another for loyalty. |
This has got to be a top contender for "Duh, why didn't they have this before." Award.
EDIT:
| QUOTE |
| a players guide a Gamemastters guide |
Did they say what would be in these? Their names don't give me that good of feeling.
Yeah, that one I can agree with. Well, providing they put some more granularity into the system than "barely knows your name, casual friend, or best friend for lifepick one".
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Yeah, that one I can agree with. Well, providing they put some more granularity into the system than "barely knows your name, casual friend, or best friend for lifepick one". ~J |
Those are not the names, just a vague description. Kinda how Sprawl Survival Guide is sort of a Players Guide to SR, and Mr J's Little Black Book is a GM's guide.
Bull
| QUOTE (blakkie @ Jul 3 2005, 04:22 PM) | ||
Did they say what would be in these? Their names don't give me that good of feeling. |
I would guess information that has been presented in the SR Companion, split between the two. Then I would guess things usually found in the core book that only pertains to one group. Something like the dragon section could go in the GM guide.
[edit] And apparently I am wrong, and saddened that a product had a life of about a year before becoming obsolete. I knew I should not have bought MJLBB.
| QUOTE (Jake 2.0 fansite) |
| The nanites give Jake extraordinary powers, including <snip> the ability to wirelessly interface with technology. |
about that knockdown test thingy:
maybe when shot in a place where knockdown can be a problem you can have the person roll agility or something modified by any mental and physical modifiers. including the ones just gatherd. set som sort of hit/success treshold and watch the sparks fly
if he gets a glitch/oops, have him hit his head on something and go ko from mental damage
i must say that im realy looking forward to this new sr
maybe when shot in a place where knockdown can be a problem you can have the person roll agility or something modified by any mental and physical modifiers. including the ones just gatherd. set som sort of hit/success treshold and watch the sparks fly
if he gets a glitch/oops, have him hit his head on something and go ko from mental damage
i must say that im realy looking forward to this new sr
To me it looks like an even bigger rules-cluster-fuck than SR3 was.
There's some elements I actually like and will fore sure retro-convert. But as a whole on it's own, SR4 looks like shit.
There's some elements I actually like and will fore sure retro-convert. But as a whole on it's own, SR4 looks like shit.
| QUOTE (Caine Hazen) |
| The core book Arsenal (cannon companion replacement and extra equimpment...including vehicles) The Magic source book The bio/cyber book a players guide a Gamemastters guide |
Well, I'm glad the rules won't be spread out all over a bunch of books any fucking more.
| QUOTE |
| Ok..to go over a few things...the bound vs unbound spirits...Everyone will be able to summmon both types of spirits, the unbound are like the old shaman type, the bound like the hermetic. So both spirits are still there, just every tradition has access to them. If I remember correctly there are 6 base spirits and every tradition chooses 5 they can summon (or are determined by tradition). More will be added in the Magic book. |
My question is: how do they justify this in the metaplot?
| QUOTE |
| The new smartgun links are wireless..can be hacked...and do incl;ude cameras to shot around corners. |
Retarded. Why would anyone ever use a wireless smartlink? I imagine a lot of people would stick to wires/induction to avoud their gun being "hacked."
| QUOTE |
| Contacts have 2 ratings now...one for what they know and can do, another for loyalty. |
HOT. This is excellent.
So sad.I'm at least happy that there is the option to create different leveld characters.
I'm not so happy with the summoning change - thats just dumbing it down. Making it way too easy.
How many books?!? Nice, also glad to see that they are sticking to their guns and keeping it all together.
*shrug* Sorry, this sounds less and less like shadowrun than ever before.
Are they goning to try and explain in game the chages to conjuring? Or just 'well, eer , thats the way it's always been...."?? That's dumb.
Hacking cyber and such? Jeeze. "Under specific citcumstances witht he right gear" - I'd be willing to bet every runner and their cousin will have the gear. Technomancer specializing in Hacking Smart link systems. And if the SL system is wireless, then yeah, let's hack the gun - engage the Safety, drop the clip, or fire it while in the holster.
What was decided for the name? Shadowrun: Reloaded?
blue planet have wireless smartguns and one reason given is that if you end up with it turned on you then have it go into locked safe mode.
stoøø, blue planet dont have the computer rules that SR4 from the looks of it is getting
allso, maybe you can have it fire from where ever its placed or other neat tricks like that
stoøø, blue planet dont have the computer rules that SR4 from the looks of it is getting
allso, maybe you can have it fire from where ever its placed or other neat tricks like that
| QUOTE (Critias) | ||
Well, I'm glad the rules won't be spread out all over a bunch of books any fucking more. |
Hey! They cut the number of rules supplements down by TWO whole books (Rigger and Matrix) in that list.
| QUOTE (GunnerJ) | ||
My question is: how do they justify this in the metaplot? |
Remember ther UMT breakthrough in SOTA64 to allow Hermetics to conjure Spirits of the Elements instead of Elementals? It's like that, only "instead of" you get "including, PLUS everything else."
| QUOTE (GunnerJ) | ||
Retarded. Why would anyone ever use a wireless smartlink? I imagine a lot of people would stick to wires/induction to avoud their gun being "hacked." |
Agreed. There are some great ideas in the del.icio.us/shadowrun RSS feed which make wireless unnecessary for the same potential benefits wireless would offer.
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| Are they goning to try and explain in game the chages to conjuring? Or just 'well, eer , thats the way it's always been...."?? That's dumb. |
Isn't that what they did with the rules changes from second edition to third?
"Don't mind the bloody 18-car pileup. Nothing to see. Move along."
Hacking a SL, now lets think about how useful that might really be. Compare it to today, where WEP is easily hacked (within a matter of a minute or two) and WPA can be hacked in about 5-30 mins, depending on the level of traffic, and WPA2 is even longer.
So, yes, you could hack the sec guards SL'ed pistol while he is sitting in the office, and lock it, but can you hack it when he is shooting at you? I doubt it.
Anyways, I was a doubter of sr4, though I didn't bother posting through all the vitriol (on both sides), but now, seeing better descriptions of how things are, I think I will like it.
Derek
So, yes, you could hack the sec guards SL'ed pistol while he is sitting in the office, and lock it, but can you hack it when he is shooting at you? I doubt it.
Anyways, I was a doubter of sr4, though I didn't bother posting through all the vitriol (on both sides), but now, seeing better descriptions of how things are, I think I will like it.
Derek
I like it far less than ever.
I always loved the atmosphere of SR1, though the rules needed a couple more editions.
The metaplot changes to magic, cyber, and matrix bug me more than anything else. I've already been bugged by some of the removal of cultural importance in the Shadows books.
Safe to say that I'm at least one person who'll never do more than glance at SR4. I want my magic traditions, native american takeovers, and Elven Nations cutting their niche in my world of cyberpunk. It seems less Magic Vs. Machine and more cyberpunk World of Darkness.
I always loved the atmosphere of SR1, though the rules needed a couple more editions.
The metaplot changes to magic, cyber, and matrix bug me more than anything else. I've already been bugged by some of the removal of cultural importance in the Shadows books.
Safe to say that I'm at least one person who'll never do more than glance at SR4. I want my magic traditions, native american takeovers, and Elven Nations cutting their niche in my world of cyberpunk. It seems less Magic Vs. Machine and more cyberpunk World of Darkness.
| QUOTE (Critias) | ||
Well, I'm glad the rules won't be spread out all over a bunch of books any fucking more. |
You are right of course. They should not bring out books for weapons, cyber, magic, matrix, etc. No one wants those types of books. It been done before and expanding the game is just a dire mistake. Just look what happened to first, second, and third edition. Those editions would be so much better without Cannon Companion, Matrix, Magic in the Shadows, the 2 second edition magic books, Shadowtech, etc. They added nothing at all to the game. <Sarcasm>
IMO the type books will add the game and maybe, just maybe, they will interface better with the core book and/or be in a toolkit type nature.
My point isn't that books are useless -- it's that they're specifically doing what they said wasn't going to happen. Part of the reason they're scrapping SR3 and introducing SR4 (like it or not, here it comes!), one of their stated goals for the new edition, was to get rid of exactly this.
I'm just wondering if you even thought for a moment that they would not release new "type" books like this. If I recall, this is the same thing that Fasa said and did for the 2nd to 3rd edition. Why are you angry that Fanpro is doing the same thing? Futhermore, if you were Fanpro, would you not release these books? What would you replace them with.
On another note, I'm sorry for my tone in the my post before. It was uncalled for.
On another note, I'm sorry for my tone in the my post before. It was uncalled for.
I'm not angry about the new books. I'm amused at it. I'm angry at a whole bunch of other stuff, the vast majority of which (or, rather, the vast majority of that which is on-topic for a Shadowrun discussion board) is easily enough deciphered by a few glances around a couple dozen threads here in the SR4 corner of DS.
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