Hell Hound
Jul 5 2005, 03:53 PM
Where do toxic and insect spirits fit into these new spirit types? Shamans turn toxic because of their close connection with nature, can a hermetic now summon toxic spirits without going mad in the same manner a shaman does? Can a hermetic be contacted by insect spirits and summon them without taking the insect as a totem (since hermetics don't have totems)? Can a 'shaman' who summons elemental type spirits with no connection to nature turn toxic and still summon those same elementals? Are nature spirits (or whatever their equivalent in SR4 is) still the only type of spirit that becomes 'toxic'? I really want more details on what exactly these new spirit types are and how the rules for them work.
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 04:46 PM
QUOTE (tisoz @ Jul 5 2005, 09:27 AM) |
It seems you were overlooking or trivializing the majority of changes and Ellery pointed out that error..... |
....moving out tangentally to the topic. But when i do that Ellery rolls out on the high horse and scolds me.
QUOTE |
Just like you are trivializing the changes between 3 and 4. No, they don't seem huge in the grand scheme of the setting. |
I don't "trivialize" them all. I happen to think that the wireless Matrix is pretty damn big evolution of the setting.
But no longer learning how to cast a spell at all Forces between the one you learn and below, but instead learning how to cast a spell at the top humanly possible Force and all below that (keeping in mind that you are likely to implode you skull if you actually exert hard enough for the top Force)? Or the likely evolution of magical theory along the lines of UMT to allow hermetics to summon "unbound" elementals?
QUOTE |
But, I didn't need to retire my characters between 1 and 2. I retired all but 1 character between 2 and 3. With the changes being made for 4th edition (and I have to agree, it should probably get a new name like Shadowrun 2070), I anticipate having to retire all my characters yet again. |
If you had that much trouble going from SR2 to SR3 then yes i'd expect moving to SR4 will claim them all. Apparently you have a rather stringent standard for moving PCs? Or were some of the ready for retirement anyway?
QUOTE |
It effects things like fan fiction. If the writer needs to have their story updated or it becomes incompatable, it is a huge hassle. I was writing a piece where the plot hinged on the shapechange spell. When the mechanics of that spell changed, the plot seemed unrealistic as the character had little to no chance of completing the new version of the spell.
Ellery explained how it affected the backstory of a character and how it was patched. I am sure many long time players, also known as the customer base, have similar stories. Our characters becoming incompatable is a reason many of us dread a new rule system. |
Never mind dreading a rule system change. You should be dreading any book that comes out. Welcome to writing for a plot/system you don't control, you don't have full knowledge of (not everything is immediately published), and your material is not considered for backwards compatibility.
EDIT: Just don't come to me complaining about a little scratch when you stick your arm in a gator's mouth.
QUOTE |
And then there are people like you that seem to relish rubbing our noses in it. |
Given the depth of the problems with SR3 [as seen by the developers] all sorts of crap is going to get moved around and evolved a little bit. Then when it does someone tosses out that Fanpro "didn't really mean they weren't changing the setting much"? Yes, i'm going to
call them on it.
tisoz
Jul 5 2005, 05:31 PM
Where is UMT described? I've been looking since it was mentioned in other posts and have not found it.
Kagetenshi
Jul 5 2005, 05:34 PM
SoE, IIRC.
Edit: no such luck. I really do need to read those two books more closely.
~J
SL James
Jul 5 2005, 05:42 PM
State of the Art 2064. The Paradigms section of the Old World Magic chapter. Page 119.
tisoz
Jul 5 2005, 05:44 PM
[edit] reply based on faulty info [/edit]
Good place for it, but why hide it if it's the basis for the new setting? Hidden, as in, not in the non-existant index, not in bolds, not a section heading, not in table of contents...
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 05:50 PM
QUOTE (tisoz @ Jul 5 2005, 11:44 AM) |
Oh, that's a good place for it. Not in a SotA book.
Another organizational decision brought to you by the same people developing the new game. |
Sorry, i was going to give the reference earlier but couldn't remember for sure if it was '63 or '64. Definately didn't have the page number, so i figured i'd just wait for the reference wizards.
Mr. Unpronounceable
Jul 5 2005, 05:56 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
I don't "trivialize" them all. I happen to think that the wireless Matrix is pretty damn big evolution of the setting. |
Why? It's easy enough to duplicate this in SR3 already...
An Otaku with a headware radio + radio link complex form or a headware cellphone + cell link complex form...or even a normal decker with the link program and a comunication device hooked up to his cyberdeck.
It never ceases to amaze me how much people complain about the new rules, when they don't even understand the rules they 'prefer' (usually meaning: houseruled to the point of incompatability with canon games)
Cheops
Jul 5 2005, 06:02 PM
I wouldn't use an Otaku as an example of making a wireless link easy since they are relatively rare (given the 30 point cost of playing one on top of race)
but the second part is bang on and deckers in my group did that all the time:
target is hooked up to the matrix...no problem
target isn't hooked up to the matrix...no way I'm going in...here's my wireless hookup ninja stealth guy go tap me in
but then again my group had no trouble integrating deckers and riggers so we really have no need for wireless overlays so that the decker can feel useful
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 06:11 PM
QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable) |
QUOTE (blakkie @ Jul 5 2005, 04:46 PM) | I don't "trivialize" them all. I happen to think that the wireless Matrix is pretty damn big evolution of the setting. |
Why? It's easy enough to duplicate this in SR3 already...
An Otaku with a headware radio + radio link complex form or a headware cellphone + cell link complex form...or even a normal decker with the link program and a comunication device hooked up to his cyberdeck.
It never ceases to amaze me how much people complain about the new rules, when they don't even understand the rules they 'prefer' (usually meaning: houseruled to the point of incompatability with canon games)
|
The evolution is the apparent prominence of standard retail devices that have the ability to radio communicate with each other, and the standardizing of the communications standards for riggers and deckers. It could be cobbled together before, certainly it would seem technically feasible. That is why i call it an evolution, not just a change. But that it is everywhere is different.
Cheops
Jul 5 2005, 06:14 PM
Actually in SSG they already did that...as soon as a customer entered a shop the rating 0 transponder in their credstick radioed the credstick verifier in the store with all their "vital" customer information (ie income, tax bracket, living standards, everything they've ever done their whole life including that time they got caught playing doctor with mary jane behind the gymnasium)
On that note I hope they actually make credstick verifiers less expensive. I don't know if anyone else found that annoying but I had all sorts of trouble justifying a store having anything as expensive as a 200,000 dollar POS machine so the PC's rating 4-6 SINs were nigh uncatchable. Except of course at large chains where they are hooked up to the mainframe with a high rating verifier that is used by a few dozen stores.
Kagetenshi
Jul 5 2005, 06:22 PM
QUOTE |
I don't know if anyone else found that annoying but I had all sorts of trouble justifying a store having anything as expensive as a 200,000 dollar POS machine so the PC's rating 4-6 SINs were nigh uncatchable. |
I think that's the point. Why bother with a fake SIN if it doesn't fool ordinary verifiers almost all of the time?
~J
hobgoblin
Jul 5 2005, 06:27 PM
i see people talking about rfid, but when i read blakkies last post i came to think about zigbee. basicly its a lightweight wireless protocol perfect for replacing the ir in remote controls.
allso, most people seems to think of wireless as open wifi hotspots.
but most likely a smartlink system would be similar to have bluetooth devices are connected together. while there are some limited forms of comunication that can happen between two bluetooth devices without performing a pairing, most require it. and after the pairing these two devices then hold a kind of signature of the other device so that they are sure that they are talking to the right device.
sure there are ways to defeat that. latest i heard was that you could send out a rogue "signature lost" signal to force one of the devices to start a new pairing cycle and use that to pair it with a device you control.
so there will allways be actions and counteractions. most likely this is reprecented in higher rating gear being more secure (ie, they are more expensive but they are using the latest security protocols to try and make sure stuff dont get hacked). so the question becomes, how much do mama corp want to spend on their security guards?
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 06:32 PM
QUOTE (Cheops @ Jul 5 2005, 12:14 PM) |
Actually in SSG they already did that...as soon as a customer entered a shop the rating 0 transponder in their credstick radioed the credstick verifier in the store with all their "vital" customer information (ie income, tax bracket, living standards, everything they've ever done their whole life including that time they got caught playing doctor with mary jane behind the gymnasium) |
A baby step, yes. But that's a cred stick, which are effectively single source. I had always assumed credsticks were passive transponders from the beginning? I didn't envision them with external metal contacts.
tisoz
Jul 5 2005, 06:31 PM
Then why slot a credstick?
Bandwidthoracle
Jul 5 2005, 06:34 PM
QUOTE (Hell Hound) |
Where do toxic and insect spirits fit into these new spirit types? Shamans turn toxic because of their close connection with nature, can a hermetic now summon toxic spirits without going mad in the same manner a shaman does? Can a hermetic be contacted by insect spirits and summon them without taking the insect as a totem (since hermetics don't have totems)? Can a 'shaman' who summons elemental type spirits with no connection to nature turn toxic and still summon those same elementals? Are nature spirits (or whatever their equivalent in SR4 is) still the only type of spirit that becomes 'toxic'? I really want more details on what exactly these new spirit types are and how the rules for them work. |
I'm not a playtester, or even very up on things, but I think it has been said previously in this thread that upon choosing a tradition, you get a list of what is summonable to you. This list can contain bound and unbound spirits. So maybe a voodoo gets unbound Loa and bound zombies? At least as far as I can tell this is what they mean by the whole bound and unbound thing.
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 06:40 PM
QUOTE (tisoz @ Jul 5 2005, 12:31 PM) |
Then why slot a credstick? |
Closer proximity to the antenna for easier, more secure transmission. If there are multiple credsticks in the immediate area you can be far more certain to communicate with the correct one the first time.
nezumi
Jul 5 2005, 06:57 PM
Oh wow. I, for one, think this is a good thing . Most of the changes listed look neat at worst, and darn ingenious at best. How come we didn't see any of this stuff back in April, instead of those rubbish FAQs?
That said, I do kind of wonder if maybe they shouldn't extend the timeline to 10 years (or more). Some of these changes, especially the magic, seem a bit forced at 5 years.
sanctusmortis
Jul 5 2005, 07:01 PM
Yeah, credsticks work (comedically) like the chip on the new cash cards, but with a transponder as well. Basically, it's too big a risk to have the wireless in some areas, and especially on cash machines. After all, they do say they still exist; believe it's in the SSG.
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 07:05 PM
QUOTE (tisoz) |
[edit] reply based on faulty info [/edit]
Good place for it, but why hide it if it's the basis for the new setting? Hidden, as in, not in the non-existant index, not in bolds, not a section heading, not in table of contents... |
Absolutely Classarific!
I heard what happened is they were low on budget and couldn't afford to send red highlighter markers and page marker stickies to all the retail outlets to highlight the section.
P.S. I am a big fan of a good solid index, and wish i'd see more of them. A cynical person would take the lack of indexes in these books as a cunning plan to push the sale of PDFs duplicating a customers hard copy.
hobgoblin
Jul 5 2005, 07:06 PM
just like rfid credit cards having to be within a distance of the reader
sr mimicing real life or real life minicing sr? (a bit of both, i know)
sanctusmortis
Jul 5 2005, 07:06 PM
I suppose the biggest difference between reality and the credstick is that the crtedstickhas the identification method built in to make sure you are the owner.
The biggest reason, of course, there are slots for credsticks are those nice "no SIN link" sticks of a set value...
hobgoblin
Jul 5 2005, 07:12 PM
well a creditcard can have a pin attached to it. or if they can make up their mind about a standard the economic powers that be can start issue cards that are locked to a fingerprint.
Kesh
Jul 5 2005, 07:13 PM
Blah, you fast typists! This post is already irrelevant.
Vors
Jul 5 2005, 08:10 PM
On the magic system:
I played a combat mage in a demo at Origins, and given the debate here about how magic will work I though I'd throw in the tidbits I picked up. First, regarding the force of a spell, it could be cast at any force up to twice your magic, so if 6 is the human maximum that would cap at 12. I was not told anything about caps for magic. The force level of an offensive spell dictated the boxes of damage it would do, plus whatever net successes were achieved (so my force 10 lightning bolt with 2 net successes hit the street sam for 12 boxes before soaking). Drain was calculated by whatever formula the spell specified, usually F/2 plus or minus some value. And of course, any spell whose force is above your magic rating does physical damage on drain.
A big change that I'm not sure has been discussed here was to initiative. You can no longer get multiple actions by rolling well on init, everyone gets a single base turn each round. If you want multiple actions you get them via wired reflexes or similar, and they are constant for all time.
If you want a really cool setting where people use cyber implants and can be hacked, I suggest reading a novel titled "Woken Furies". Third in a series by Richard Morgan, it can stand on its own and got me really craving a good game of Shadowrun.
Anyway, that's my input, save to say that I liked the new version and think it retained the feel of Shadowrun quite well.
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 08:19 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post.
QUOTE |
A big change that I'm not sure has been discussed here was to initiative. You can no longer get multiple actions by rolling well on init, everyone gets a single base turn each round. If you want multiple actions you get them via wired reflexes or similar, and they are constant for all time. |
So do you reroll initiative for each round?
P.S. As a mage did you happen to notice your options for types of spirits? If you did could you please
pop over here and fire off a quick clarification? Thanks in advance.
mmu1
Jul 5 2005, 08:30 PM
QUOTE (Vors @ Jul 5 2005, 03:10 PM) |
If you want a really cool setting where people use cyber implants and can be hacked, I suggest reading a novel titled "Woken Furies". Third in a series by Richard Morgan, it can stand on its own and got me really craving a good game of Shadowrun. |
Gaaah! It's not coming out in the US until the September... *stomps off mumbling angrily to see about shipping from Canada or the UK*
Bull
Jul 5 2005, 08:53 PM
QUOTE (Hell Hound) |
Where do toxic and insect spirits fit into these new spirit types? Shamans turn toxic because of their close connection with nature, can a hermetic now summon toxic spirits without going mad in the same manner a shaman does? Can a hermetic be contacted by insect spirits and summon them without taking the insect as a totem (since hermetics don't have totems)? Can a 'shaman' who summons elemental type spirits with no connection to nature turn toxic and still summon those same elementals? Are nature spirits (or whatever their equivalent in SR4 is) still the only type of spirit that becomes 'toxic'? I really want more details on what exactly these new spirit types are and how the rules for them work. |
Remember that things like Toxic and insect spirits were never in the core rulebooks. Street Magic will very likely add a bunch to the basic magic rules for traditions.
Bull
Shadow
Jul 5 2005, 08:52 PM
I hope theres more to the magic one thing. Cause if not I foresee everyone being hax0rs and having a magic of 1. (Despite what Blackie believes you cannot purchase a magic rating of 1 in SR3, so it is different).
Heck if you can cast any spell at any power just take magic of 1, fireball and don't use it unless you're really in trouble.
I keep hoping for there to be information released that makes me want to buy FanPros Shadowrun. But the more they reveal the less I like.
Synner
Jul 5 2005, 09:11 PM
QUOTE (Shadow @ Jul 5 2005, 08:52 PM) |
I hope theres more to the magic one thing. Cause if not I foresee everyone being hax0rs and having a magic of 1. (Despite what Blackie believes you cannot purchase a magic rating of 1 in SR3, so it is different).
Heck if you can cast any spell at any power just take magic of 1, fireball and don't use it unless you're really in trouble. |
QUOTE (Vors) |
First, regarding the force of a spell, it could be cast at any force up to twice your magic, so if 6 is the human maximum that would cap at 12. I was not told anything about caps for magic. The force level of an offensive spell dictated the boxes of damage it would do, plus whatever net successes were achieved (so my force 10 lightning bolt with 2 net successes hit the street sam for 12 boxes before soaking). |
the_dunner
Jul 5 2005, 09:15 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
So do you reroll initiative for each round?
P.S. As a mage did you happen to notice your options for types of spirits? . |
Yes, initiative is re-rolled each combat round.
In the 5 demo tables I ran, no one attempted any conjuring. I can't honestly say what happened at tables that any of the other GMs ran.
QUOTE |
Heck if you can cast any spell at any power just take magic of 1, fireball and don't use it unless you're really in trouble. |
That is, of course, an option. But the drain would be rather unpleasant.
Shadow
Jul 5 2005, 09:16 PM
QUOTE (Synner) |
QUOTE (Shadow @ Jul 5 2005, 08:52 PM) | I hope theres more to the magic one thing. Cause if not I foresee everyone being hax0rs and having a magic of 1. (Despite what Blackie believes you cannot purchase a magic rating of 1 in SR3, so it is different).
Heck if you can cast any spell at any power just take magic of 1, fireball and don't use it unless you're really in trouble. |
QUOTE (Vors) | First, regarding the force of a spell, it could be cast at any force up to twice your magic, so if 6 is the human maximum that would cap at 12. I was not told anything about caps for magic. The force level of an offensive spell dictated the boxes of damage it would do, plus whatever net successes were achieved (so my force 10 lightning bolt with 2 net successes hit the street sam for 12 boxes before soaking). |
|
Thank you synner that makes it a little better. Hopefully a magic rating of 3 will be prohibitively expensive to prevent everyone from having it.
blakkie
Jul 5 2005, 09:26 PM
QUOTE (Shadow) |
I hope theres more to the magic one thing. Cause if not I foresee everyone being hax0rs and having a magic of 1. (Despite what Blackie believes you cannot purchase a magic rating of 1 in SR3, so it is different). |
Reread what he said. He said you can get Magic 1 by starting at 3 and working down from there as you add 'ware.
That is the same way as you get to 1 Magic in SR3, only you start at 6 so you need to buy more 'ware (nominally, depending on the new Essense costs) to get there.
Vors
Jul 5 2005, 09:27 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
Thanks for taking the time to post.
QUOTE | A big change that I'm not sure has been discussed here was to initiative. You can no longer get multiple actions by rolling well on init, everyone gets a single base turn each round. If you want multiple actions you get them via wired reflexes or similar, and they are constant for all time. |
So do you reroll initiative for each round? P.S. As a mage did you happen to notice your options for types of spirits? If you did could you please pop over here and fire off a quick clarification? Thanks in advance. |
You do reroll each round.
I didn't see anything about the spirits, sorry.
Vors
Jul 5 2005, 09:29 PM
QUOTE (mmu1) |
QUOTE (Vors @ Jul 5 2005, 03:10 PM) | If you want a really cool setting where people use cyber implants and can be hacked, I suggest reading a novel titled "Woken Furies". Third in a series by Richard Morgan, it can stand on its own and got me really craving a good game of Shadowrun. |
Gaaah! It's not coming out in the US until the September... *stomps off mumbling angrily to see about shipping from Canada or the UK*
|
Yeah I had to import it from the U.K. myself.
His first novel, "Altered Carbon" is an excellent place to start though, I think it's still my favorite of his works.
QUOTE (Vors) |
His first novel, "Altered Carbon" is an excellent place to start though, I think it's still my favorite of his works. |
Absolutely. Morgan goes on the Short List of Awesomeness. Can't wait for Furies.
Thanos007
Jul 6 2005, 12:42 AM
QUOTE |
Drain was calculated by whatever formula the spell specified, usually F/2 plus or minus some value. And of course, any spell whose force is above your magic rating does physical damage on drain.
|
Are you sure this is right as that would meen the TN is NOT 5?
Thanos
Kagetenshi
Jul 6 2005, 12:52 AM
That may be a Hit threshold rather than a TN change.
~J
bclements
Jul 6 2005, 02:02 AM
QUOTE (Req) |
QUOTE (Vors @ Jul 5 2005, 02:29 PM) | His first novel, "Altered Carbon" is an excellent place to start though, I think it's still my favorite of his works. |
Absolutely. Morgan goes on the Short List of Awesomeness. Can't wait for Furies.
|
+ f'ing +. Great book (the second one wasn't, though.) Kovacs is a great character, and Morgan has a neat universe made up.
hobgoblin
Jul 6 2005, 06:59 AM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jul 6 2005, 02:52 AM) |
That may be a Hit threshold rather than a TN change.
~J |
like so maybe:
drain = the numbers of boxes of damage your taking before soaking them.
then you roll willpower vs 5 and reduce the damage by one box pr hit/success.
basicly the same damage resolution as with normal combat. and i must say i kinda like it
hmm, that would put a force 12 spell into the 6 damage area and physical to boot. nasty if you dont roll good on the test then. two of these should either severly wound you or drop you if that happens...
Ellery
Jul 6 2005, 08:28 AM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
I didn't really see much "debate" from you about that. So why bother respond. [Instead, I'll go off on a misleading tangent by supposing things that are false.] |
So you don't care, actually, to communicate with people. I'm not sure what you're doing here; ego-stroking, or passing time, or what. I'm here to discuss Shadowrun 4, including context (which includes SR2/SR3 changes), hypothetical situations (including speculation on how rules work and perceived consequences of announced rules), and so on; and I recogize that discussion involves an exchange of ideas about the matter being discussed, and that these ideas must meet minimal standards of relevancy, sufficiency, and truthfulness in order to be worthwhile for the other person to consider.
If your policy upon finding a debate insufficiently on-topic for your personal standards is to bring it much more off-topic without even mentioning that you question the topicality (and then trying to justify your statements afterwards by appealing to the lack of topicality when at the time it wasn't important enough to mention), then there's no point in discussing some things with you. Since I can't tell when you're adopting this policy, and there are plenty of people on DS who try harder to communicate (or do better at not letting emotional responses interfere with their posting, or whatever the case is here), I'll stop trying to discuss anything with you. If this was your goal all along, it could be much more efficiently achieved by simply asking, "Could you please not read and respond to my posts? I'm not going to make it worth your while, so there's no point wasting your time. Thanks."
Henceforth, if anyone wants me to address any of blakkie's comments, please ask them again in your own post. I have better things to do than waste my time reading what he writes, so I very likely won't even notice if something is worth addressing, and even if I do, I probably won't be motivated to address it.
QUOTE (Vors) |
A big change that I'm not sure has been discussed here was to initiative. You can no longer get multiple actions by rolling well on init, everyone gets a single base turn each round. If you want multiple actions you get them via wired reflexes or similar, and they are constant for all time. |
This seems like quite a hit on the non-magical, non-cybered character. It used to be that with high quickness and intelligence, you could go twice fairly often. (E.g., with 7 in each you'd go twice half the time.) Magicians without quickened increase reflexes spells often got two actions as well. Also, unless there are fewer levels of reflex enhancement, it's going to accentuate the power of wired reflexes, since it used to add only about one action for every two levels before.
I suppose this does streamline the initiative process, although not very much if everyone still has to roll to determine the order in which they go. It seems like a pretty small savings for a rather major impact. It certainly simplifies things, as there's no arithmetic required to figure out if you're likely to get an extra action after upgrading your 'ware. If you dislike arithmetic sufficiently, this could be a bonus, even though you only have to do it rarely and during downtime (or character creation).
I wonder what this does to wounds penalties leaving people with no actions at all? I suppose that's gone as well?
Cheops
Jul 6 2005, 09:36 AM
"New" Initiative sounds a fair bit like Celerity...unless of course wired actions don't go at the end of the round
hobgoblin
Jul 6 2005, 11:13 AM
yea, a bit more info on this change in initiative would be nice
Taki
Jul 6 2005, 12:25 PM
QUOTE (Cheops) |
"New" Initiative sounds a fair bit like Celerity...unless of course wired actions don't go at the end of the round |
I does agree with that ...
I find it a shame wired reflex still won't be considered as "reflexes" by the rules ...
Without any training(skill), people will still be able to act 3 times faster without any penalities ?
nezumi
Jul 6 2005, 01:51 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
QUOTE (Shadow @ Jul 5 2005, 02:52 PM) | I hope theres more to the magic one thing. Cause if not I foresee everyone being hax0rs and having a magic of 1. (Despite what Blackie believes you cannot purchase a magic rating of 1 in SR3, so it is different). |
Reread what he said. He said you can get Magic 1 by starting at 3 and working down from there as you add 'ware.
|
Wait, just for clarification... I did see that mentioned earlier that everyone starts with magic 3. But are we actually saying EVERY runner is magical? Every joe shmoe? Every office receptionist? Every little two year old playing ball with her dad? Heck, what about fido? Is he magical? That would quite put me off, if fireballs were more common than handguns.
Fortune
Jul 6 2005, 02:22 PM
I believe you still have to pay a 'build point' cost to be awakened. Apparently, if this cost is paid, according to the poster (?) the character then starts with a Magic Attribute of 3. I assume that it can be raised from there (to a max of 6), and/or lowered via implants.
Grinder
Jul 6 2005, 02:58 PM
Even in a strongly magical setting like Earthdawn only a small percentage of the people are magically awake/active. I doubt that it will be different in Shadowrun.
You have to pay to be awakened and get a magic rating which you can raise or lower, but most people in the world won't have such a magic rating/ attribute as they aren't awakened.
Eldritch
Jul 6 2005, 03:44 PM
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jul 6 2005, 06:59 AM) |
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jul 6 2005, 02:52 AM) | That may be a Hit threshold rather than a TN change.
~J |
like so maybe: drain = the numbers of boxes of damage your taking before soaking them. then you roll willpower vs 5 and reduce the damage by one box pr hit/success. basicly the same damage resolution as with normal combat. and i must say i kinda like it hmm, that would put a force 12 spell into the 6 damage area and physical to boot. nasty if you dont roll good on the test then. two of these should either severly wound you or drop you if that happens... |
I dunno - so the mage with a magic attribute of 65 could fling that force 12 spell - and Worse case scenario only suffer 6 boxes mental stun. Assuming he's got a bod of 2, he's still got 4 boxes left to operate and has likely thrown a Major - not easy to resist - spell.
I hope theres more to it than that....
QUOTE ( ellery) |
Henceforth, if anyone wants me to address any of blakkie's comments, please ask them again in your own post. I have better things to do than waste my time reading what he writes, so I very likely won't even notice if something is worth addressing, and even if I do, I probably won't be motivated to address it. |
*applause*
Kagetenshi
Jul 6 2005, 03:44 PM
Er? My problem with it is that if you're just rolling Willpower to soak, anything above Force 3 will be very likely to injure the casting mage. Also note that in your above example (assuming that you didn't really mean to write magic attribute of 65
) the mage would be taking Physical damage.
~J
Eldritch
Jul 6 2005, 03:49 PM
Even so, 6 boxes of physical damage isn't bad for a force 12 spell. You''re still tossing a mighty big manaball and walking away from it.