 More news of Origins, yeah..I saw the good stuff |
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 Jul 5 2005, 03:53 PM
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#151
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 26-April 05 Member No.: 7,360  |
Where do toxic and insect spirits fit into these new spirit types? Shamans turn toxic because of their close connection with nature, can a hermetic now summon toxic spirits without going mad in the same manner a shaman does? Can a hermetic be contacted by insect spirits and summon them without taking the insect as a totem (since hermetics don't have totems)? Can a 'shaman' who summons elemental type spirits with no connection to nature turn toxic and still summon those same elementals? Are nature spirits (or whatever their equivalent in SR4 is) still the only type of spirit that becomes 'toxic'? I really want more details on what exactly these new spirit types are and how the rules for them work.
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Jul 5 2005, 04:46 PM
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#152
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
....moving out tangentally to the topic. But when i do that Ellery rolls out on the high horse and scolds me.
I don't "trivialize" them all. I happen to think that the wireless Matrix is pretty damn big evolution of the setting. But no longer learning how to cast a spell at all Forces between the one you learn and below, but instead learning how to cast a spell at the top humanly possible Force and all below that (keeping in mind that you are likely to implode you skull if you actually exert hard enough for the top Force)? Or the likely evolution of magical theory along the lines of UMT to allow hermetics to summon "unbound" elementals?
If you had that much trouble going from SR2 to SR3 then yes i'd expect moving to SR4 will claim them all. Apparently you have a rather stringent standard for moving PCs? Or were some of the ready for retirement anyway?
Never mind dreading a rule system change. You should be dreading any book that comes out. Welcome to writing for a plot/system you don't control, you don't have full knowledge of (not everything is immediately published), and your material is not considered for backwards compatibility. EDIT: Just don't come to me complaining about a little scratch when you stick your arm in a gator's mouth. :P
Given the depth of the problems with SR3 [as seen by the developers] all sorts of crap is going to get moved around and evolved a little bit. Then when it does someone tosses out that Fanpro "didn't really mean they weren't changing the setting much"? Yes, i'm going to call them on it. |
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Jul 5 2005, 05:31 PM
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#153
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Where is UMT described? I've been looking since it was mentioned in other posts and have not found it.
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Jul 5 2005, 05:34 PM
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#154
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
SoE, IIRC.
Edit: no such luck. I really do need to read those two books more closely. ~J |
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Jul 5 2005, 05:42 PM
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#155
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
State of the Art 2064. The Paradigms section of the Old World Magic chapter. Page 119.
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Jul 5 2005, 05:44 PM
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#156
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
[edit] reply based on faulty info [/edit]
Good place for it, but why hide it if it's the basis for the new setting? Hidden, as in, not in the non-existant index, not in bolds, not a section heading, not in table of contents... |
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Jul 5 2005, 05:50 PM
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#157
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
:) Sorry, i was going to give the reference earlier but couldn't remember for sure if it was '63 or '64. Definately didn't have the page number, so i figured i'd just wait for the reference wizards. |
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Jul 5 2005, 05:56 PM
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#158
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
Why? It's easy enough to duplicate this in SR3 already... An Otaku with a headware radio + radio link complex form or a headware cellphone + cell link complex form...or even a normal decker with the link program and a comunication device hooked up to his cyberdeck. It never ceases to amaze me how much people complain about the new rules, when they don't even understand the rules they 'prefer' (usually meaning: houseruled to the point of incompatability with canon games) |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:02 PM
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#159
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
I wouldn't use an Otaku as an example of making a wireless link easy since they are relatively rare (given the 30 point cost of playing one on top of race)
but the second part is bang on and deckers in my group did that all the time: target is hooked up to the matrix...no problem target isn't hooked up to the matrix...no way I'm going in...here's my wireless hookup ninja stealth guy go tap me in but then again my group had no trouble integrating deckers and riggers so we really have no need for wireless overlays so that the decker can feel useful |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:11 PM
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#160
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
The evolution is the apparent prominence of standard retail devices that have the ability to radio communicate with each other, and the standardizing of the communications standards for riggers and deckers. It could be cobbled together before, certainly it would seem technically feasible. That is why i call it an evolution, not just a change. But that it is everywhere is different. |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:14 PM
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#161
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
Actually in SSG they already did that...as soon as a customer entered a shop the rating 0 transponder in their credstick radioed the credstick verifier in the store with all their "vital" customer information (ie income, tax bracket, living standards, everything they've ever done their whole life including that time they got caught playing doctor with mary jane behind the gymnasium)
On that note I hope they actually make credstick verifiers less expensive. I don't know if anyone else found that annoying but I had all sorts of trouble justifying a store having anything as expensive as a 200,000 dollar POS machine so the PC's rating 4-6 SINs were nigh uncatchable. Except of course at large chains where they are hooked up to the mainframe with a high rating verifier that is used by a few dozen stores. |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:22 PM
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#162
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I think that's the point. Why bother with a fake SIN if it doesn't fool ordinary verifiers almost all of the time? ~J |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:27 PM
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#163
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i see people talking about rfid, but when i read blakkies last post i came to think about zigbee. basicly its a lightweight wireless protocol perfect for replacing the ir in remote controls.
allso, most people seems to think of wireless as open wifi hotspots. but most likely a smartlink system would be similar to have bluetooth devices are connected together. while there are some limited forms of comunication that can happen between two bluetooth devices without performing a pairing, most require it. and after the pairing these two devices then hold a kind of signature of the other device so that they are sure that they are talking to the right device. sure there are ways to defeat that. latest i heard was that you could send out a rogue "signature lost" signal to force one of the devices to start a new pairing cycle and use that to pair it with a device you control. so there will allways be actions and counteractions. most likely this is reprecented in higher rating gear being more secure (ie, they are more expensive but they are using the latest security protocols to try and make sure stuff dont get hacked). so the question becomes, how much do mama corp want to spend on their security guards? |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:32 PM
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#164
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
A baby step, yes. But that's a cred stick, which are effectively single source. I had always assumed credsticks were passive transponders from the beginning? I didn't envision them with external metal contacts. |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:31 PM
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#165
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Then why slot a credstick?
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Jul 5 2005, 06:34 PM
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#166
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 338 Joined: 17-September 04 From: Pueblo Sector of Denver Member No.: 6,672 |
I'm not a playtester, or even very up on things, but I think it has been said previously in this thread that upon choosing a tradition, you get a list of what is summonable to you. This list can contain bound and unbound spirits. So maybe a voodoo gets unbound Loa and bound zombies? At least as far as I can tell this is what they mean by the whole bound and unbound thing. |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:40 PM
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#167
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Closer proximity to the antenna for easier, more secure transmission. If there are multiple credsticks in the immediate area you can be far more certain to communicate with the correct one the first time. |
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Jul 5 2005, 06:57 PM
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#168
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Oh wow. I, for one, think this is a good thing ™. Most of the changes listed look neat at worst, and darn ingenious at best. How come we didn't see any of this stuff back in April, instead of those rubbish FAQs?
That said, I do kind of wonder if maybe they shouldn't extend the timeline to 10 years (or more). Some of these changes, especially the magic, seem a bit forced at 5 years. |
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Jul 5 2005, 07:01 PM
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#169
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 14-June 05 Member No.: 7,444 |
Yeah, credsticks work (comedically) like the chip on the new cash cards, but with a transponder as well. Basically, it's too big a risk to have the wireless in some areas, and especially on cash machines. After all, they do say they still exist; believe it's in the SSG.
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Jul 5 2005, 07:05 PM
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#170
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
:rotfl: Absolutely Classarific! I heard what happened is they were low on budget and couldn't afford to send red highlighter markers and page marker stickies to all the retail outlets to highlight the section. P.S. I am a big fan of a good solid index, and wish i'd see more of them. A cynical person would take the lack of indexes in these books as a cunning plan to push the sale of PDFs duplicating a customers hard copy. ;) |
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Jul 5 2005, 07:06 PM
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#171
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
just like rfid credit cards having to be within a distance of the reader ;)
sr mimicing real life or real life minicing sr? (a bit of both, i know) |
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Jul 5 2005, 07:06 PM
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#172
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 14-June 05 Member No.: 7,444 |
I suppose the biggest difference between reality and the credstick is that the crtedstickhas the identification method built in to make sure you are the owner.
The biggest reason, of course, there are slots for credsticks are those nice "no SIN link" sticks of a set value... |
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Jul 5 2005, 07:12 PM
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#173
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
well a creditcard can have a pin attached to it. or if they can make up their mind about a standard the economic powers that be can start issue cards that are locked to a fingerprint.
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Jul 5 2005, 07:13 PM
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#174
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 293 Joined: 27-January 03 From: Kentucky, USA Member No.: 3,958 |
Blah, you fast typists! This post is already irrelevant. ;)
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Jul 5 2005, 08:10 PM
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#175
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Target Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-April 04 Member No.: 6,222 |
On the magic system:
I played a combat mage in a demo at Origins, and given the debate here about how magic will work I though I'd throw in the tidbits I picked up. First, regarding the force of a spell, it could be cast at any force up to twice your magic, so if 6 is the human maximum that would cap at 12. I was not told anything about caps for magic. The force level of an offensive spell dictated the boxes of damage it would do, plus whatever net successes were achieved (so my force 10 lightning bolt with 2 net successes hit the street sam for 12 boxes before soaking). Drain was calculated by whatever formula the spell specified, usually F/2 plus or minus some value. And of course, any spell whose force is above your magic rating does physical damage on drain. A big change that I'm not sure has been discussed here was to initiative. You can no longer get multiple actions by rolling well on init, everyone gets a single base turn each round. If you want multiple actions you get them via wired reflexes or similar, and they are constant for all time. If you want a really cool setting where people use cyber implants and can be hacked, I suggest reading a novel titled "Woken Furies". Third in a series by Richard Morgan, it can stand on its own and got me really craving a good game of Shadowrun. Anyway, that's my input, save to say that I liked the new version and think it retained the feel of Shadowrun quite well. |
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