 More news of Origins, yeah..I saw the good stuff |
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 Jul 3 2005, 07:32 PM
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#26
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 14-June 05 Member No.: 7,444  |
Maybe they'll add generic kit weights, ie a pistol weighs this on average?
Or maybe a new system that just limits carryable kit? |
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Jul 3 2005, 07:46 PM
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#27
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Or maybe this is a game were the situations are few were you need to worry about how much you can carry around, so itīs just unnecessary work. But I donīt see why they would keep it out of the book. Itīs such an easy thing for people like me to ignore anyway.
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Jul 3 2005, 08:34 PM
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#28
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Any info on chargen, like attribute costs? There was a hint it would be expensive to have a high attribute.
Anything on the Attribute + Skill that balances high Att/low skill concerns? Like how an unskilled troll could womp on little martial arts master. |
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Jul 3 2005, 09:01 PM
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#29
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Google is your friend. I personally can't fill you in anymore than that, i haven't had cable/satelite TV in years. However given that it was cancelled and didn't even manage to raise a cult following that i've heard of i suspect it was the suxxor. *shrug* |
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Jul 3 2005, 09:11 PM
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#30
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
That's good news, i think. I do agree with Thanos007, there is still a place for instance based knockback. Though if they are calculating stun damage anyway that is a good place for it to go from, no?
I've got a pile of space, but i'm not sure about bandwidth. How big are we talking? I'm not sure where my bandwidth usage is at right now, and i don't have experience with setting up a Bit Torrent tracker after we use my space to privately set up a number of seeds. |
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Jul 3 2005, 09:36 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
Well, this is all good news to me. I like the change in summoning. In fact when I first started playing I read the rules wrong and that's how we did it all the time.
I also like the Armor Piercing and Damage number. Conceptually, it is similiar to how I envisioned Power working. I guess what I'm saying is that SR4 seems to be something that I will be comfortable with. |
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Jul 3 2005, 10:07 PM
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#32
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MechRigger Delux Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,151 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Hanger 18, WPAFB Member No.: 1,657 |
Ok..to go over a few things...the bound vs unbound spirits...Everyone will be able to summmon both types of spirits, the unbound are like the old shaman type, the bound like the hermetic. So both spirits are still there, just every tradition has access to them. If I remember correctly there are 6 base spirits and every tradition chooses 5 they can summon (or are determined by tradition). More will be added in the Magic book. Magic loss is gone.... you start with 3 magic points now too instead of 6 (like all atributes are capped at) skills will now be grouped aso that you can buy a group vs a single skill
Matrix...cause it's been asked: looks like the mechanics are the same...all stuff now uses one of 3 dice rools. The opposed, which looks like alot of the game's stuff is based on, the open...so you continue the test until you get X# of successes, and the straight 1 roll with a need for a certian # of successes. thus, everything uses this type of style...from what I saw in the book, lots of hacking tests are opposed, programming are open so you can see it looks like it will all flow a little faster. Note...to quote Rob here also "controlling a drone is the same as hacking a computer now" but it looks like the VCR adds some big bonuses to this...so "riggers" still have a place, but they can also be the multi role guy on a team. Also, the matrix now involves the whole "augmented reality" which means that your PDA/minicomputer can overlay extra info to you...which translates into bonus dice for some actions. I don't remember if this was covered so I'll go over it some...base campaign settings looked like 6 (watching the video I took now, just heard that again) a Srun character is made from 400 pts, the basic rules include that 300 pts for a low end camapaign, 500 for a high power start. I didn't get to see all the pt breakdowns, but it loked like attributes are the bloody expensive thing. The new smartgun links are wireless..can be hacked...and do incl;ude cameras to shot around corners. There is a Gamemaster section to the book...with stuff on how to tweek the game style...lots of good stuff in there...unfortunatly some ares stull had the <to be filled by X> tag on them...so I didn't get to see it all Contacts have 2 ratings now...one for what they know and can do, another for loyalty. Side note....I need a good video editing proggy...this stuff I got is decent..you can hear most of it...but it's 44 mins of the Sr4 stuff, and it's 58 meg right now...so if anyone wants to see rthis before the podcast, let me know. Ok...that is all for now...more later as I recover from Bar on 2 LARP....I lurve you Bull!! |
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Jul 3 2005, 10:20 PM
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#33
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MechRigger Delux Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,151 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Hanger 18, WPAFB Member No.: 1,657 |
Oh...one thing I didn't see here yet on the whole bunch of these thread...books for 4th ed they talked about.
The core book Arsenal (cannon companion replacement and extra equimpment...including vehicles) The Magic source book The bio/cyber book a players guide a Gamemastters guide something I'm forgetting here... they also mentioned that the place books are going back into being more like the Target:X books, with a few places and more ideas for expansion vs a wjhole veiw of large areas |
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Jul 3 2005, 10:22 PM
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#34
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
This has got to be a top contender for "Duh, why didn't they have this before." Award. :) EDIT:
:? Did they say what would be in these? Their names don't give me that good of feeling. |
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Jul 3 2005, 10:24 PM
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#35
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yeah, that one I can agree with. Well, providing they put some more granularity into the system than "barely knows your name, casual friend, or best friend for lifepick one".
~J |
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Jul 3 2005, 11:00 PM
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#36
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
Those are not the names, just a vague description. Kinda how Sprawl Survival Guide is sort of a Players Guide to SR, and Mr J's Little Black Book is a GM's guide. Bull |
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Jul 3 2005, 11:04 PM
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#37
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I would guess information that has been presented in the SR Companion, split between the two. Then I would guess things usually found in the core book that only pertains to one group. Something like the dragon section could go in the GM guide. [edit] And apparently I am wrong, and saddened that a product had a life of about a year before becoming obsolete. I knew I should not have bought MJLBB.
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Jul 4 2005, 12:20 AM
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#38
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
about that knockdown test thingy:
maybe when shot in a place where knockdown can be a problem you can have the person roll agility or something modified by any mental and physical modifiers. including the ones just gatherd. set som sort of hit/success treshold and watch the sparks fly ;) if he gets a glitch/oops, have him hit his head on something and go ko from mental damage :silly: i must say that im realy looking forward to this new sr :P |
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Jul 4 2005, 12:24 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
To me it looks like an even bigger rules-cluster-fuck than SR3 was.
There's some elements I actually like and will fore sure retro-convert. But as a whole on it's own, SR4 looks like shit. |
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Jul 4 2005, 12:24 AM
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#40
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Well, I'm glad the rules won't be spread out all over a bunch of books any fucking more. |
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Jul 4 2005, 12:37 AM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
My question is: how do they justify this in the metaplot?
Retarded. Why would anyone ever use a wireless smartlink? I imagine a lot of people would stick to wires/induction to avoud their gun being "hacked."
HOT. This is excellent. |
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Jul 4 2005, 12:37 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 19-August 02 Member No.: 3,139 |
:( So sad.
I'm at least happy that there is the option to create different leveld characters. I'm not so happy with the summoning change - thats just dumbing it down. Making it way too easy. How many books?!? Nice, also glad to see that they are sticking to their guns and keeping it all together. *shrug* Sorry, this sounds less and less like shadowrun than ever before. Are they goning to try and explain in game the chages to conjuring? Or just 'well, eer , thats the way it's always been...."?? That's dumb. Hacking cyber and such? Jeeze. "Under specific citcumstances witht he right gear" - I'd be willing to bet every runner and their cousin will have the gear. Technomancer specializing in Hacking Smart link systems. And if the SL system is wireless, then yeah, let's hack the gun - engage the Safety, drop the clip, or fire it while in the holster. What was decided for the name? Shadowrun: Reloaded? |
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Jul 4 2005, 12:39 AM
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#43
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
blue planet have wireless smartguns and one reason given is that if you end up with it turned on you then have it go into locked safe mode.
stoøø, blue planet dont have the computer rules that SR4 from the looks of it is getting allso, maybe you can have it fire from where ever its placed or other neat tricks like that ;) |
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Jul 4 2005, 12:50 AM
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#44
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Hey! They cut the number of rules supplements down by TWO whole books (Rigger and Matrix) in that list.
Remember ther UMT breakthrough in SOTA64 to allow Hermetics to conjure Spirits of the Elements instead of Elementals? It's like that, only "instead of" you get "including, PLUS everything else."
Agreed. There are some great ideas in the del.icio.us/shadowrun RSS feed which make wireless unnecessary for the same potential benefits wireless would offer.
Isn't that what they did with the rules changes from second edition to third? "Don't mind the bloody 18-car pileup. Nothing to see. Move along." |
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Jul 4 2005, 12:59 AM
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#45
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Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95 |
Hacking a SL, now lets think about how useful that might really be. Compare it to today, where WEP is easily hacked (within a matter of a minute or two) and WPA can be hacked in about 5-30 mins, depending on the level of traffic, and WPA2 is even longer.
So, yes, you could hack the sec guards SL'ed pistol while he is sitting in the office, and lock it, but can you hack it when he is shooting at you? I doubt it. Anyways, I was a doubter of sr4, though I didn't bother posting through all the vitriol (on both sides), but now, seeing better descriptions of how things are, I think I will like it. Derek |
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Jul 4 2005, 01:13 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 284 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Metroplex Member No.: 217 |
I like it far less than ever.
I always loved the atmosphere of SR1, though the rules needed a couple more editions. The metaplot changes to magic, cyber, and matrix bug me more than anything else. I've already been bugged by some of the removal of cultural importance in the Shadows books. :( Safe to say that I'm at least one person who'll never do more than glance at SR4. I want my magic traditions, native american takeovers, and Elven Nations cutting their niche in my world of cyberpunk. It seems less Magic Vs. Machine and more cyberpunk World of Darkness. |
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Jul 4 2005, 01:17 AM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 11-April 05 From: San Antonio, USA Member No.: 7,317 |
You are right of course. They should not bring out books for weapons, cyber, magic, matrix, etc. No one wants those types of books. It been done before and expanding the game is just a dire mistake. Just look what happened to first, second, and third edition. Those editions would be so much better without Cannon Companion, Matrix, Magic in the Shadows, the 2 second edition magic books, Shadowtech, etc. They added nothing at all to the game. <Sarcasm> IMO the type books will add the game and maybe, just maybe, they will interface better with the core book and/or be in a toolkit type nature. |
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Jul 4 2005, 01:24 AM
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#48
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
My point isn't that books are useless -- it's that they're specifically doing what they said wasn't going to happen. Part of the reason they're scrapping SR3 and introducing SR4 (like it or not, here it comes!), one of their stated goals for the new edition, was to get rid of exactly this.
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Jul 4 2005, 01:35 AM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 11-April 05 From: San Antonio, USA Member No.: 7,317 |
I'm just wondering if you even thought for a moment that they would not release new "type" books like this. If I recall, this is the same thing that Fasa said and did for the 2nd to 3rd edition. Why are you angry that Fanpro is doing the same thing? Futhermore, if you were Fanpro, would you not release these books? What would you replace them with.
On another note, I'm sorry for my tone in the my post before. It was uncalled for. |
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Jul 4 2005, 01:46 AM
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#50
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I'm not angry about the new books. I'm amused at it. I'm angry at a whole bunch of other stuff, the vast majority of which (or, rather, the vast majority of that which is on-topic for a Shadowrun discussion board) is easily enough deciphered by a few glances around a couple dozen threads here in the SR4 corner of DS.
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