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Bull

Jul 7 2005, 10:18 AM

Post #76

Grumpy Old Ork Decker

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Wow, this conversation quickly took a wierd turn...

QUOTE

so given 20+ releases of the BBB SR will turn into rifts?

Depends on your way of looking at it, but... Yeah. The nature of Magic in SR is that it's cyclic. It rises and falls in cycles, and within each cycle there's either a peak or a valley, with the Mana level starting at a median point, and builing up or falling even lower, before heading back to that median point.

If I recall my ED Lore well enough (I'm more than a little fuzzy on those details), ED took place in the 4th world, which was a magic "Up cycle" like Shadowrun's 6th world. ED takes place as the Magic is coming back down from it's high point, still far higher than where SR is currently. The big bad Horrors are able to freely move about the world when the Magic is at it's highest, but as it lowers they are limited in their influence, until they;'re shut out completely. In ED, they're blocked off but can still manipulate events,and a few can still interact with the world, I think.

In SR, eventually the magic level will rise high enough for the Horrors to return. In ED, the populace sealed themselves away in magical caerns to hide.

Regardless though, this could be thousands of years off (Though some of the SR2ish storyline stuff revolved around attempts to weaken the barriers and bring this stuff about. The Dragonheart Trilogy patched that up, and put things back on track.

QUOTE

But I think it is more likely that given 20 editions of the BBB we'd end up with Eartdawn 6th Age...at least based on the way a some of the freelancers seem to think

Not sure if you're referring to me or not here, but whatever. I'm actually not 100% what you mean by this, really... Unless you mean getting rid of tech so we're just left with Magic for "ED 6th World", there isn;t much difference from what I would envision as ED 6th World and, to some degree, Rifts. SUper High Tech mixed with Uber Magic. Again, not really something to worry about, though... I don't envision SR ever getting that far along.

QUOTE

those people are old hat, from the time before fasa sold earthdawn. sr1 and sr2 was full of semi-hidden references to earthdawn.

sr3 on the other hand was supposed to sever that connection after the dragonheart incident...

SR3 had it's share of these. Look at YotC, for example. And Dragonheart didn't sever anything... It just marked the return to how things were "supposed to be", and the toning back from the metaplot being so centered on that sort of thing.

[quote]P.S. - Many people seem to think Earthdawn was somehow hinted about from the beginning of SR1. It wasn't. Earthdawn borrowed far more from Shadowrun than Shadowrun every borrowed or tried to make a connection to ED. [quote]

Actually, go back and reread the Adventures and such for SR1 sometime. It wasn't ED specifically, but there were references to a previous age of Magic.

I always have to point this out, because a lot of folks aren't aware of it, but ED wasn't really designed to be SR's past. That's why there are a number of inconsistancies that have since been explained away due to a "Higher magic level" or "They died off during the downcycle". But close to release, someone at FASA said "Hey, we keep hinting at a past age of magic, why not link our games?"

Immortal Elves were in 1st ed. Horrors were, or at least references to Horror like critters.

<shrug>

Bull

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 11:18 AM Post #77
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	ah, well nice to have that cleared out. about hte only copy of earthdawn i have ever read was a html version that came shipped with a magazine i bought ones so i cant say im realy up to speed on the ed/sr links. most of what i have gatherd came from this forum...

Ancient History View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 12:29 PM Post #78
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	SR/ED Connections </pimping>

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 01:18 PM Post #79
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	heh, as expected...

Ancient History View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 01:18 PM Post #80
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	<shrug> What can I say? I'm a one-trick pony.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 01:21 PM Post #81
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	but its one nice trick ;)

Cheops View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 06:54 PM Post #82
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392	It's gotten rather blatant with some of the stuff especially with YoTC. Allusions to 5 other magical elements being found along with orichalcum, the return of shadowmants and brithans, filtering/spell matrix metamagic, paths for adepts, etc...

hermit View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 06:59 PM Post #83
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121	.... the ED-imported critters ....

JongWK View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 08:00 PM Post #84
Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992	cough Hellcows cough

Nikoli View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 08:07 PM Post #85
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033	wtf is a hellcow?

Taki View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 08:22 PM Post #86
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-April 05 From: France Member No.: 7,343	A hell cow is dressed in red because it has sign a pact with the devil

Garland View Member Profile	Jul 7 2005, 08:44 PM Post #87
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043	A cow that gives birth to a large pack of ravenous man-eating young.

Bandwidthoracle

Jul 7 2005, 09:14 PM

Post #88

Moving Target

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QUOTE (hobgoblin)

those people are old hat, from the time before fasa sold earthdawn. sr1 and sr2 was full of semi-hidden references to earthdawn.

sr3 on the other hand was supposed to sever that connection after the dragonheart incident...

now we get crasy ai's and stuff instead ;)

Who dosen't like crazy AI? :D

Bandwidthoracle

Jul 7 2005, 09:25 PM

Post #89

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Not of this World)

You're throwing a lot at me that I didn't say or believe I even portrayed.

Of course its subjective. Did Michelangelo create good art? Did SR1 have more of a folklore and cyberpunk feel than SR2?

I never said anything about Mages being all corporate. But read the SR1 literature (and even much after) and you'll find that the logical thinking mind of the mage is much more in agreement. Magic and Machine aren't at war, but there is a choice.

Western nations with their logic, corporations, and mages? or Native American Nations with their respect for nature, Shamans, and Paranormal critters? Cultural Traditions or Technological progress? Man meets Magic and Machine and weaves his way between them.

Late SR2 lost me and many others when everything just kind of became explained away with "Magic". SR4 will lose me just as quick if it tries to explain all of magic away with formulas and tech.

P.S. - Many people seem to think Earthdawn was somehow hinted about from the beginning of SR1. It wasn't. Earthdawn borrowed far more from Shadowrun than Shadowrun every borrowed or tried to make a connection to ED.

I appologise for misinterpeting what you where saying. Somehow I got that you where saying that they where complete opponents in shadworun. Again, I appologise.

I'm not sure SR4 will explain magic away. When I read the whole pick x spirits thing. I was thinking more there where a fixed number per tradition, and you choose which you handeld. So a mage would have a seperate pool to pick from.

At least SR4 (as far as we know) doesn't have any references to Shamanism being a mental disorder? :)

SL James

Jul 7 2005, 09:38 PM

Post #90

Shadowrun Setting Nerd

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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Jul 7 2005, 03:14 PM)

QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jul 7 2005, 03:30 AM)

those people are old hat, from the time before fasa sold earthdawn. sr1 and sr2 was full of semi-hidden references to earthdawn.

sr3 on the other hand was supposed to sever that connection after the dragonheart incident...

now we get crasy ai's and stuff instead ;)

Who dosen't like crazy AI? :D

To be fair, the AI storyline that climaxed with the shutdown began 15 years ago, so it's not like they just decided all of the sudden to make the AEP sentient because the ED ties wound down.

mfb View Member Profile	Jul 8 2005, 12:57 AM Post #91
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	the ED inclusions in SR3 are more in the vein of lifting cool ideas from a related setting, rather than heavy-handed metaplot stuff. SR2 was all about horror invasions and plots extending back to ED times and all that, making ED and SR strongly-linked settings. this stuff is more low-key and mysterious. of course, if you really want to combine ED and SR, just run Dawn of Atlantis on a UV host.

Ancient History

Jul 8 2005, 01:04 AM

Post #92

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (JongWK)

*cough* Hellcows *cough*

You have no-where to talk. :P

Bull

Jul 8 2005, 01:17 AM

Post #93

Grumpy Old Ork Decker

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QUOTE (Ancient History)

QUOTE (JongWK @ Jul 7 2005, 08:00 PM)

*cough* Hellcows *cough*

You have no-where to talk. :P

Exactly, and that's what Mike and later Rob were shooting for. The links still exist. ED is still the 4th world. It's just not a plot issue anymore, but rather background information.

Bull

Kyoto Kid View Member Profile	Jul 8 2005, 09:05 PM Post #94
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490	So, next question... How do the changes to magic affect adepts?

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jul 8 2005, 09:29 PM Post #95
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	i dont think it have been coverd. atleast i cant recall reading anything about adepts... but from what i understood out resident deepthroat was more interested in the tech then the magic...

tisoz View Member Profile	Jul 12 2005, 05:34 PM Post #96
Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920	I wonder if we will be getting +2 Swords or +4 Shields? Something that was not possible under the current system. Seems like it would appeal to the new demographic, too.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jul 12 2005, 05:40 PM Post #97
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	ugh... given how the weapon focus works in sr3 and how the dice system is to be in sr4 i this that its a posibility that we get a kind of +x weapon yes :spin:

Starglyte

Jul 12 2005, 05:45 PM

Post #98

Moving Target

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QUOTE (tisoz)

I wonder if we will be getting +2 Swords or +4 Shields? Something that was not possible under the current system. Seems like it would appeal to the new demographic, too.

You say it like its a bad thing. :twirl:

Synner

Jul 12 2005, 05:59 PM

Post #99

Runner

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QUOTE (tisoz)

I wonder if we will be getting +2 Swords or +4 Shields? Something that was not possible under the current system.

If you mean a Weapon foci which add their Rating to the appropriate Armed Combat skill rating (or in SR4's case dice pool), then I think it's likely. I don't see much difference with regards to SR3 in that respect though.

Eldritch View Member Profile	Jul 12 2005, 06:01 PM Post #100
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 19-August 02 Member No.: 3,139	But will we see magic items usable by mundanes? Magic shields? Magic Armor? Enchanted Missle weapons? (Couldn't bring myself to say M<agic Missle ;) )

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