BeCKS..., is it worth a switch? Options

[ElFenrir]

I know BeCKS has been around for awhile, but I never much bothered with it. However, I finally sat down and played around with it...I found I'm loving BeCKS v2. It seems balanced, streamlined, and while it seems it can take awhile, I am really liking where it's going.

I converted a few character, and found they converted just fine...it didn't favor magical/non magical, or human/metahuman, or anything. It has the resource advantage over the priority system(where you are stuck with the million, 400 grand, or 90 grand, no inbetween), and it doesn't have the huge favor of 'mundane human' over magicians/and or metahumans the point based system seems to have., and it nips the 'contacts bought with nuyen' in the bud, as well as has more flexibility for spell points., of course at a trade off with everything else.(more SP-less of something else.)

Is there anything i need to look out for, though, to the folks who have played with it? I have used the search and couldn't find any of the old BeCKS threads I thought i saw before.

One thing I like is that when I was converting the characters, I found myself dropping a few skills a couple points, and opting for the more balanced spread...I like that, it seems to discourage what i like to calll 'PHD syndrome', where chracters who take the high skill priorities/points have a ton of 6's, and it encourages a more balanced approach. (i can believe 6 or 7 rating 4 skills more than i can believe even 4 rating 6 skills, personally.)

It seems really balanced on the getgo, and in the chars I created/converted(I used the standard 425 karma, which seems to be a good starting karma, like when it converted the archetypes), and since there is no change how chars develop(they still use karma), is there anything really unbalanced about it in the long run? Figure i'd ask some folks who have played with it before I go and make a huge switch.

[Birdy]

I tested BECKS than I hinted at a "Mage Mage hurray" player that I might use it. The player did the "Pawlows dog impression" so the thing must favor mages a lot!

Basically I prefer either Point based or Sum-to-10 over BECKS. I might take BECKS if! it's Priority or BECKS.

BECKS favors a wide base skill-specialisation spread as well as "universall genius" / JoaT (Jack of all Trades) characters. Since a few "hyperactiv" JoaT's (or CanAlls) can ruin game for more silent players (and I had a few to many CanAlls, including the above example) I have a strong dislike for BECKS.

Birdy

[ElFenrir]

Hmmm. I can see a point there. I dunno, I guess YMMV, but we always liked the 'broader skills at lower ratings' kinda thing. Then again, nothing stops players from having the small handful of PHD skills with BeCKS either.

But i can see maybe after running games with tons of people who have buttloads of rating 3-4 skills, why you feel that way.

Hmm..but then again the broad skill base, can be again, a bit more realistic.

I created a couple mages(well, converted) with BeCKS....I didn't see much favor...yet...but perhaps I didn't try to break it enough, and a munchy person might find something i didn't.

[mmu1]

I find that BECKS requires me to spread the points a lot more thinly than I really want to, and forces (well, strongly encourages, anyway) the creation of characters that are less competent than I think non street-level runners should be. I much prefer point-buy.

[Capt. Dave]

The chargen method, for me anyway, depends on the character being created. Using NSRCG, I simply create the same character using each of the available methods, and select the method that best benefits that character.

BecKs can sometimes be the way to go, especially since one can buy spell points with Karma at a 1:1 ratio. Then one can sell these for :nuyen: 25,000 apiece,
which is a much better return than purchasing resources with said Karma.
One simply has to know how to "work" each system to get the maximum benefit.

[Birdy]

[Kagetenshi]

That's nothing. The real benefit is playing an Otaku and taking the lowest point-build Resources level (¥500, normally). Otaku's rules state that they always have ¥5,000 in Resources, so you trade your ability to buy a higher tribe Lifestyle for five extra build points.

~J

[Austere Emancipa...]

That ain't just a min/maxer trait, it's a definite sign of munchkinism: using rules in ways they were absolutely not meant to be used, breaking and twisting the system to provide the maximum advantage for the character, is far worse than run-of-the-mill min/maxing.

I'm wondering about this bit, though:

[tisoz]

[Modesitt]

I have three problems with BeCKs -

1. Skillwires become much more game-breaking. When most PCs have a couple high-skills, the guy with skillwires is just a really handy dude who can do all of the things they can't. When everyone has a bunch of skills, he's always stepping on someones toes when he slots a chip.

2. Spellslingers make out like bandits.

3. It's impossible to double-check the math in a timely manner when you're face to face. Not for deliberate cheating, but to make sure someone didn't screw up their addition or multiplication somewhere.

[Shadow]

Becks is an interesting concept, and it can be a different way to make your character, but I still prefer point buy. Of course this will be moot when 4th ed comes out.

[The Stainless St...]

[Capt. Dave]

[Glyph]

I like BeCKS, but like any other character generation method, some characters come out better than others.

Street sammies get hit the hardest, since they generally require a combination of high Attributes, high resources, and a good number of 6's in their skill set - an expensive proposition in BeCKS.

Sorcerers, on the other hand, rock. They only need two Attributes (Intelligence and Willpower) and one skill (Sorcery) to start out at 6. This leaves them enough points to start out with decent scores for the other Attributes, lots of other skills in the 1-4 range, 50 spell points, a good range of contacts, and resources that are comparatively low, but better than the 5,000 - enough for the basic goodies that a sorcerer needs to start out with.

If you try to make the traditional Resources: A heavy-foci sorcerer, though, it will be harder - about as hard as the point system at the lower end (120-123 points).

Of course, street sammies get screwed over in Priority, too, and sorcerers have a lot of the advantages enumerated above in the other two character generation methods (they just shine even more in BeCKS).


Overall, BeCKS is probably best when the GM wants to encourage a street-level type of campaign, where most of the characters are not quite ready for "prime time". Characters will have decent Attributes, a wider range of skills (but fewer 6's), and will tend to have somewhat lower resources. Don't get me wrong, you can still do "traditional" min-maxing if you want a hardened professional, it will just require more sacrifices to do.

Some people complain about the math, but really, most of it is already done for you in the tables.

[Bandwidthoracle]

[Kagetenshi]

Er, yes. The sample characters in the base SR3 book typically come out to about 123 points. The book's suggestion is 120 points.

~J

[Bandwidthoracle]

[Edward]

The only reference to spellpoints being worth 25K is that that is what you can spend to buy an extra one under the priority, sum to 10 and I think build point systems (build points may have a build point cost for them). Even under those systems you CAN NOT sell spell points for 25K each.

If I may giv an example of the munchkin’s that would result.

Priority system light sam. Magic E cash B has 400K for equipment
Magic b (conjurer) cash 3 selling all spell points gives 880k for equipment and probably a magic of 3, the ability to astraly preserve, theoretically the ability to learn conjuring and most significantly the option to get a weapon focus.

This was clearly not the intent of the rules especially as nowhere dose it say you can sell spell points for nuyen.

Edward

[Crusher Bob]

[Kagetenshi]

[Crusher Bob]

Part of that depends, the generation system has a built in bais against 'international' players, in that contacts outside of the local area are apparently edges, not just 'regular' contacts. A decker or 'private detective' could probably be 'internationalized' quite easily, the others would take more effort.

[sanctusmortis]

I gave my players 125, and they still struggle to keep that low...

Ah, the Flaws just mount up.

[ElFenrir]

With BP we usuallty use 123-125. Yeah, PCs get to bump one attribute or tack on an extra small skill over the 120, but since the book example gave 123 i found it doesn't breaky anything.

Well, i guess what it boils down to is I'll have to give BeCKS a try to actually see it. I did create a sorc(further testing), and tried to break it a bit(since it seems sorcs were the main concern of balance.) Full mages are kind of hard to break with it, but Sorcs DO seem to come out good. I guess i'll only worry when every PC decides to make a sorc. If not, I guess I'm in the clear.

Sammies seem to turn out quite well actually....if you go the 'not all 6' route. The sammy I converted(with his combat skills anyway), had one at 6, two at 5, and a couple at 4, with a couple lower dabbling ones(combo weapons specialist/sammy. Less cyber than average but more skills.) But yeah, if you go the *Pistol/SMG/Cyberweapn/Edged at 6 sammy, you are gonna pay, no less than if you went the Comp6/CompBR6/Elect6/electBR6 decker.


I guess in the end they are all balanced, and all seem to have a slight favor toward some characters(BeCKS to the priority B magicians, point buy to the mundanes/sammy types, priority....) actually, I don't THINK priority favors anything.

But with a low munchkin group i dont have to worry. Sure, all of us min max a bit now and again(I come from the camp that a little bit of min maxing is good), but in the end as long as we have fun playing the game and seeing what kind of stupid quotes come out next we don't care. :grinbig:

As for selling Spell Points....oh HELL no. :P

[weblife]

We use 132 points. It doesn't feel overpowered.. We get into trouble all the time. :D

In our campaign, if you do not have skills at 6 for combat etc. then you will lose. Hard.

This makes skewed characters for sure... Noone can drive a car reliably for one thing, but its a willing sacrifice for greater power in our focus areas.

[Crusher Bob]

What I really like about BECKs is how it eliminates the 'loss' of putting your skill points into a bunch of low ranking skills you 'should know' but are usually neglected for combat skills.

So your ex soldier can have:

Leadership(military) 1/3
Parachuting (standard Drop) 1/3
Wilderness survival 2
Assault Rifle (M22/23) 4/6

all for the same cost of Assault Rifles 6 (29 karma vs 30 karma)

This way, characters who have 'background skills' aren't completely screwed by the combat monkeys.

Doing the above in points would cost 11 skill points