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> EuroAir flight 329
Nebuchadnezzar
post Jul 18 2005, 07:22 PM
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Asides from being destroyed by Sirrurg the Destroyer, what's signifigant about EuroAir flight 329?
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Mugzy
post Jul 18 2005, 07:43 PM
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If I remember correctly, wasn't there a passenger who was able to hold off Sirrug with magic for a short amount of time before it crashed?

This one strikes me as elimination of a certain passenger or two, with the rest and the airplane being collateral damage Sirrug simply could care less about.


I know they talk about this incident in DotSW, even if they don't go into much detail about Vast Green, there was a quote from everyone's favorite SL post monkey, the Laughing Man, about "Big Green, still hunting the hunters."
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Ancient History
post Jul 18 2005, 07:51 PM
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A mage on the flight managed to hold off Sirrurg for several minutes, a fairly impressive feat. It didn't quite help Amazonia's image as a bunch of terrorists, either.
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Nikoli
post Jul 18 2005, 07:54 PM
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Just to be Capt. Obvious here, but sounds like the Dragon was looking to lunch some IE's. Who else could match mojo with a dragon for minutes? Certainly not a fledgling ghost dance participant.
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hermit
post Jul 18 2005, 07:58 PM
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Any really competent mage, with new DotSW rules. Though "hunting the hunters" implies otherwise. Maybe Big Green is just pissed beyond reason about down-cycle hunting?

then again, with LA's dragonhunters file, maybe the hunters weren't IEs after all, but more ordinary humans?
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Velocity
post Jul 18 2005, 08:09 PM
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Was Sirrurg explicitly acting on behalf of Amazonia? Were its motivations political?
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Cynic project
post Jul 18 2005, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (Nikoli)
Just to be Capt. Obvious here, but sounds like the Dragon was looking to lunch some IE's. Who else could match mojo with a dragon for minutes? Certainly not a fledgling ghost dance participant.

Good ol' Howling may have. Remember that not all mages are made equally. We don't know how powerful all the magic people are. After all missteer Plotdevice..I mean Quicksilver was mighty powerful.

We honestly can't say if the a human mage from say 2002 wouldn't be powerful enough to hold off a dragon for a wile. He could have had spirit pact,been toxic or hell he could have been just that bad ass.
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Edward
post Jul 19 2005, 02:42 AM
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Great dragon or standered.

With judicious use of shielding you can prevent even a great dragon from casting much in the way of spells at you (+12 TN) the dragon has to keep up with the airplane, that’s going to slow it down a little (having to spend actions to increase speed) a few great form spirits will slow it down if it’s a lesser form dragon (maybe even buy you moments against a great form).

The problem is this is a strategy that must ultimately fail you can’t defeat the dragon, only hold it off.

Edward
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Mugzy
post Jul 19 2005, 03:29 AM
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In this case, Sirrug is a great. Not only that, he probably was using a fairly large sky spirit or air elemental to speed himself up anyway, not to mention indirect attacks at the airplane and other things shielding can't cover. Usun was known for his savagery as well as his command over air and wood spirits.

Not that any of that matters when it comes to stories, mind you.

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Edward
post Jul 19 2005, 03:53 AM
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You could engages sprit.

The problem with making the story mach likely engagements buy the rules is that “successfully held of the great dragon for 15 seconds” doesn’t sound all that impressive in spite of the fact that almost every small scale engagement using SR rules is over and done with, one way or the other, within 6 seconds.

Working from the point of the dragon I would have a number of spirits manifest in key locations on the plane, such as just in front of the air intakes, there would be no time for a response

Edward
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Herald of Verjig...
post Jul 19 2005, 04:10 AM
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If you are a dragon trying to kill a mage strong enough to hold you off for a quarter of a minute, you will not trust gravity to perform the killing blow. You will rip the craft apart, and precisely obliterate your target, as long as you have no concern for the others who will die as a result. If you are concerned about other casualties, you would wait at the airport.

Really, how often do protagonists or villains survive airplane crashes that "left no survivors" in modern fiction? A competant mage would be expected to find a way to survive such a trivial danger as gravity and water, so if one is your target, leave it no such chance.
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Velocity
post Jul 19 2005, 04:28 AM
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Was Sirrurg explicitly acting on behalf of Amazonia? Were its motivations political?
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Ancient History
post Jul 19 2005, 04:30 AM
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No, but who cares about that? 9/11 happens and most Americans blame, oh, the entire Islamic culture. Sorry, might be overreacting a little, these rednecks are getting to me.
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Velocity
post Jul 19 2005, 04:38 AM
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No apologies necessary.

Seriously though: has there been any canonical reference to Sirrurg's actual motives?
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northern lights
post Jul 19 2005, 06:15 AM
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i do believe that the closest thing to the canonical would be harlaquin's follow up.
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Edward
post Jul 19 2005, 06:24 AM
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I still have not met an individual or seen one on TV that claims the bulk of islamics are responsible for or condone any terrorist action..

There must be some because there are plenty of people worrying about that perception but I cant find them so I would think they would be the minority.

Edward
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toturi
post Jul 19 2005, 06:28 AM
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What exactly was EuroAir flight 329 anyway? A normal airliner? A suborbital? A semi-ballistic?
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 19 2005, 06:37 AM
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I'm willing to bet not even a Greater Dragon could've kept up with a suborbital or a semi-ballistic. A suborbital's speeds are just insane to think about a dragon flying at, and a semiballistic would take him outside of the gaiasphere.
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Critias
post Jul 19 2005, 08:06 AM
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Don't assume he was flying that speed on his own. Air Elemental/Movement -- swoooooosh.
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Edward
post Jul 19 2005, 08:49 AM
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I thought both of those options took you out of the mana sphere. That is bad for dragons and worse for spirits helping him keep up.

Edward
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 19 2005, 09:00 AM
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Can even magic move you at supersonic speeds? Mach 8 and above? Especially since a dragon is a Very Big Thing.
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Critias
post Jul 19 2005, 09:15 AM
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As I recall, the Movement power is a multiplier based on the Force of the Spirit/Elemental involved, right? So take the Dragon's base flight movement, and multiply it by the Force of the heftiest thing it can summon. I bet it's a pretty high number.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 19 2005, 09:16 AM
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Yeah, but I'm not willing to put money on it being a supersonic number.
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Critias
post Jul 19 2005, 09:20 AM
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Really, it comes down to what you think is a reasonable magic attribute and Summoning skill for a GD (that is, what Force of spirit it will summon). And it also depends on whether more than one spirit can apply the power at a time (whether that's the case for normal mortal magicians or not). And I'm not sure what the "base" flight speed of a dragon is, now that I think about it. I'd just say something like -- if you want the GD to be able to do it, and you're either the GM or the writer of the story, the GD does it.

Since, well, that's the trend, whether I say it's the rule or not.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Jul 19 2005, 09:25 AM
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I'd rather believe that a GD using those abilities could catch up with a jumbo jet, than that it could fly at speeds that require ultratensile materials and bleeding-edge aerodynamics to not fly yourself apart.
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