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> System Failure, What's the status?
Wireknight
post Aug 6 2005, 11:23 PM
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Shadowrun Fourth Edition takes place in 2070 and is in many respects (the wireless Matrix 2.0, the technomancers, etc...) the direct result on a plot-level of the events in System Failure. I see that Shadows of Asia has hit "print" (though I still cannot find a hardcopy of Loose Alliances, but that's another gripe for another time) and that GenCon, and SR4 with it, looms close on the horizon. This being said...

Where's System Failure? If SR4's release predates System Failure's, it's going to be a bit strange to jump forward from 2065/3E to 2070/4E, for Shadowrun 4th Edition, only to be forced to hop back to 2065/3E again for the next release before jumping ahead with the SR4 production line. That's going to kind of jive with the flow of time in the SRverse, if it happens. I haven't seen much in the way of news on System Failure, and it doesn't look like there's a lot of time between now and SR4 to fit it in.
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SL James
post Aug 7 2005, 01:55 AM
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Twelve days, actually.
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ring3tones
post Aug 8 2005, 02:19 AM
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Hopefully we will see something. I am putting my bets on maybe a pdf. The book should be out, but as we have seen sr 4 is a priority. :)
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Dashifen
post Aug 8 2005, 02:43 AM
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Further, I'd suspect and think I've read in the SR4 forum that the SR4 core book will fill in the major details of the system failure so the SR4 timeline can move forward and the hardcore folks like us can buy system failure for the details.
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SL James
post Aug 8 2005, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE (ring3tones @ Aug 7 2005, 08:19 PM)
Hopefully we will see something.  I am putting my bets on maybe a pdf.  The book should be out, but as we have seen sr 4 is a priority. :)

Yes, but System Failure should have been a higher priority than, say, Shadows of Asia.

At least I can buy that book right now if I wanted. For all I know, System Failure isn't even done.
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kryton
post Aug 8 2005, 04:38 PM
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Yeah personally I think Robo and the folks at Fanpro maybe dropped the ball on that one.

Too bad really I was looking forward to System Failure more than I was SR4....It sounded like a really good book.....Hopefully it will be a surprise release at Gencon.
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Dashifen
post Aug 8 2005, 06:20 PM
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Interesting. I see it from the opposite point of view. Would you rather release a new edition with different rules aimed at a new generation of potential players and game masters or release a book in the old edition that may not provide any real benefit to some groups.

Before getting a full time job I never bought any books other than the "big four," as I called them, of SR3, M&M, CC, MitS, and Matrix. And those were stretching the budget I had during my college years. Only after I got a full time job and became more stable could I spend money on things like Threats 2, YotC, etc. These books, without much in the way of new rules that would prevent you from running and playing the game meant little to me until I could easily afford them.

Consider that in the case of System Failure. The hardcore folks around here would have purchased it before the release of SR4 and hopefully no one is so petty as to not purchase it simply because it's post-SR4. We're the audience targeted for books such as System Failure, DotSW, and YotC simply because we're fanatics and can probably be counted on to purchase almost any new book that's realeased.

But, new players may not care. In fact, they probably won't care. Most of the people I game with (a group of 45+) all are either (a) in college or (b) started gaming in college or before. If these are the target audience for a new edition (arguable, I know) then releasing said new edition can be a better draw for new players than more books they may not be able or care to purchase.

The old players will probably buy the new edition for the same reason we'd buy the "setting" books: we're fanatics. :cyber:

Thus, releasing the new edition first bothers only a few, most of whom hopfully love the game enough to keep playing and shrug it off after a few moments, but releasing another "setting" book and delaying the release of the new edition could delay the inclusion of new blood into our gene pool.

Now the arguement is whether or not that delay would matter.
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Slacker
post Aug 8 2005, 06:43 PM
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I believe the comment was that System Failure should have a higher priority than Shadows of Asia, which is a fluff book with material that can be used both in SR3 games and SR4 games, whereas System Failure is an adventure book set in SR3 designed to wrap up that system in time for the new system of SR4.

To have an adventure book based on the SR3 system come after the release of the SR4 system is a bit stupid. People buying the SR4 in the beginning will want to go ahead and run SR4 campaigns. They most likely will not start an SR4 campaign then go back and run an adventure that uses the SR3 rules and is set before the beginning of SR4, so there is far less chance they will bother purchasing System Failure if it is published after SR4.
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Ecclesiastes
post Aug 8 2005, 06:57 PM
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Sorry, but I see the point that Shadows of Asia would be more important to get out. They want to complete the world info before coming out with SR4. System Failure is just an adventure, the results of which we will already know when SR4 comes out and tells us the story.
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Slacker
post Aug 8 2005, 07:13 PM
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Since they have yet to publish the Shadows of Latin America book, its not like the publication of Shadows of Asia completed the world info.
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Grinder
post Aug 8 2005, 07:18 PM
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Not to mention the missing Shadows Of Africa...
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SL James
post Aug 8 2005, 08:31 PM
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So, fuck the existing fanbase. Got it.
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Ancient History
post Aug 9 2005, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE (SL James)
So, fuck the existing fanbase. Got it.

Temper, temper. Have a little patience, and faith that Fanpro isn't out to screw their customers.
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Nyxll
post Aug 9 2005, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE
Temper, temper. Have a little patience, and faith that Fanpro isn't out to screw their customers.


Faith is the evidence of things unseen. :eek:
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SL James
post Aug 9 2005, 01:59 AM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 8 2005, 08:31 PM)
So, fuck the existing fanbase. Got it.

Temper, temper. Have a little patience, and faith that Fanpro isn't out to screw their customers.

I have little patience, and zero faith.
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FlakJacket
post Aug 9 2005, 02:11 AM
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I think that's been made abundantly clear.
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SL James
post Aug 9 2005, 04:48 AM
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Clearly.
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Critias
post Aug 9 2005, 05:19 AM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 8 2005, 08:31 PM)
So, fuck the existing fanbase. Got it.

Temper, temper. Have a little patience, and faith that Fanpro isn't out to screw their customers.

Just because they're not doing it on purpose doesn't mean they're not doing it.
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lorthazar
post Aug 9 2005, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE (Critias)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Aug 8 2005, 07:16 PM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 8 2005, 08:31 PM)
So, fuck the existing fanbase. Got it.

Temper, temper. Have a little patience, and faith that Fanpro isn't out to screw their customers.

Just because they're not doing it on purpose doesn't mean they're not doing it.

And doing it better than could possibly be done if Lawyers were doing the screwing.
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Jrayjoker
post Aug 9 2005, 01:00 PM
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Lighten up a little y'all, there are only 24 hours in a day, and they have been pushing hard to get SR4 out along with 2 other books in 3 months. Fear not, you can always delay SR4 until you get System Failure in you hands.
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Critias
post Aug 9 2005, 02:05 PM
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Right, we could.

Or, hey, wait! Maybe they could have remembered there were only 24 hours in a day when they, a business, set out to start making crap, and gave us a release schedule. And then they could have prioritized a little better, so that stuff would get to us in a logical order (like, I dunno, System Failure before 4th Edition, or something zany like that).
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Grinder
post Aug 9 2005, 02:16 PM
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What a weird idea. :D
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Jrayjoker
post Aug 9 2005, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
Right, we could.

Or, hey, wait! Maybe they could have remembered there were only 24 hours in a day when they, a business, set out to start making crap, and gave us a release schedule. And then they could have prioritized a little better, so that stuff would get to us in a logical order (like, I dunno, System Failure before 4th Edition, or something zany like that).

Whatever. Its not like we have lives or anything. It is easy to sit in judgement without the whole story.
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SL James
post Aug 9 2005, 05:55 PM
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The "whole story" is that they promised five books in as many months. One took a month and a half to be released in hardcopy after the PDF was made available, one was just made available on PDF and will be available three days before Gencon begins (hopefully. I've yet to see a hardcopy of Loose Alliances at my gaming store), and while Fourth Edition is supposed to be available at Gencon in the meanwhile they're overly optimistic release schedule has seen one book held off indefinitely (and will be out of date in the universe in nine days, regardless of how much isn't changed by System Failure, which I believe is total crap) and another book wrapping up Third Edition has fallen off the face of the Earth and is not even mentioned while the website proudly proclaims a book which is relatively inconsequential is now available on PDF and pre-order.

I say inconsequential only because the first book they are releasing after the core book is a book on the six primary locations that will serve as the backdrops for virtually all of Fourth Edition. Maybe it's just me, but focusing on releasing Shadows of Asia when in that light is just stupid from a marketing perspective unless all six of those locations are in Asia, which they aren't (Seattle is at least one).

From my perspective, I care a far greater deal more about System Failure's release than I do about Shadows of Asia. But, you say, you can still run events in System Failure after Fourth Edition is released. Sure, I can do that. I could have also gone back an not started up my games in 2060 when I picked up Shadowrun in Third Edition. I could have gone back to the Corp War, the Mob War, the 2057 Election, Bug City, the early 2050s, the Night of Rage, the EuroWars, the Crash of '29, the Indian Wars, or the Resource Rush.

But I already know what happens. My players already know what happens. If I do pick up Fourth Edition (which is a decision that is hardly set in stone at this point), then I could do that, or I could just restart the world in 2070 since my PCs who'd probably fall under the low-level spectrum as someone has informed me via PM several times would be similarly low-powered or somehow twisted in the conversion to Fourth Edition.

Or I could disregard Fourth Edition, and lose out on the only book that is supposed to cover the next five to six years of world events while I decide whether I want Fourth Edition, and if not, with System Failure I get a book with five-six years of material I wouldn't have by not buying Fourth Edition. And that is far more useful and important to me than any of the last five bopks released for Shadowrun, and if it's the difference between putting out Shadows of Asia or System Failure, I'll go for having System Failure any time.

At least System Failure would be useful enough to me on its face that I want to buy it, whereas what's out now is a luxury which I am more likely to never use compared to a book like System Failure which I would probably use until it fell apart on me.

I've played Shadowrun Third Edition for four years now. Maybe it's because we were so caught up in our own world and progressively buying the rules books and implementing them in the world that I didn't realize it, but now that I have the become a collector of books rather than just grabbing what I need, it struck me that Fanpro's 2005 release schedule was fucked from the beginning. Last year, they released three books, plus the Character Dossier.

This year they were completing Fourth Edition, and of course everything else would take a backseat to that (and has). It's August, and they have released one real book so far, and two are on the way. I don't have any expectation of more books coming out this year after Fourth Edition except maybe the GM Screen. Again, like last year they would have been optimistic to release three books when one of them is a new edition core book which takes more time and effort than anything else. Here I was shocked that it took so long between State of the Art and Loose Alliances and so stuck in my own world that I didn't realize that the idea that Fanpro could release five books before mid-August was insane. Clearly, neither did they.

This post has been edited by SL James: Aug 9 2005, 06:22 PM
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JongWK
post Aug 9 2005, 06:10 PM
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I won't deny that System Failure is important, but no matter how you look at it, Shadows of Asia has far more commercial appeal. I'm sorry if you don't share my opinion, though.
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