Shadowrun Fourth Edition takes place in 2070 and is in many respects (the wireless Matrix 2.0, the technomancers, etc...) the direct result on a plot-level of the events in System Failure. I see that Shadows of Asia has hit "print" (though I still cannot find a hardcopy of Loose Alliances, but that's another gripe for another time) and that GenCon, and SR4 with it, looms close on the horizon. This being said...

Where's System Failure? If SR4's release predates System Failure's, it's going to be a bit strange to jump forward from 2065/3E to 2070/4E, for Shadowrun 4th Edition, only to be forced to hop back to 2065/3E again for the next release before jumping ahead with the SR4 production line. That's going to kind of jive with the flow of time in the SRverse, if it happens. I haven't seen much in the way of news on System Failure, and it doesn't look like there's a lot of time between now and SR4 to fit it in.

Twelve days, actually.

Hopefully we will see something. I am putting my bets on maybe a pdf. The book should be out, but as we have seen sr 4 is a priority.

Further, I'd suspect and think I've read in the SR4 forum that the SR4 core book will fill in the major details of the system failure so the SR4 timeline can move forward and the hardcore folks like us can buy system failure for the details.

Yeah personally I think Robo and the folks at Fanpro maybe dropped the ball on that one.

Too bad really I was looking forward to System Failure more than I was SR4....It sounded like a really good book.....Hopefully it will be a surprise release at Gencon.

Interesting. I see it from the opposite point of view. Would you rather release a new edition with different rules aimed at a new generation of potential players and game masters or release a book in the old edition that may not provide any real benefit to some groups.

Before getting a full time job I never bought any books other than the "big four," as I called them, of SR3, M&M, CC, MitS, and Matrix. And those were stretching the budget I had during my college years. Only after I got a full time job and became more stable could I spend money on things like Threats 2, YotC, etc. These books, without much in the way of new rules that would prevent you from running and playing the game meant little to me until I could easily afford them.

Consider that in the case of System Failure. The hardcore folks around here would have purchased it before the release of SR4 and hopefully no one is so petty as to not purchase it simply because it's post-SR4. We're the audience targeted for books such as System Failure, DotSW, and YotC simply because we're fanatics and can probably be counted on to purchase almost any new book that's realeased.

But, new players may not care. In fact, they probably won't care. Most of the people I game with (a group of 45+) all are either (a) in college or (b) started gaming in college or before. If these are the target audience for a new edition (arguable, I know) then releasing said new edition can be a better draw for new players than more books they may not be able or care to purchase.

The old players will probably buy the new edition for the same reason we'd buy the "setting" books: we're fanatics.

Thus, releasing the new edition first bothers only a few, most of whom hopfully love the game enough to keep playing and shrug it off after a few moments, but releasing another "setting" book and delaying the release of the new edition could delay the inclusion of new blood into our gene pool.

Now the arguement is whether or not that delay would matter.

I believe the comment was that System Failure should have a higher priority than Shadows of Asia, which is a fluff book with material that can be used both in SR3 games and SR4 games, whereas System Failure is an adventure book set in SR3 designed to wrap up that system in time for the new system of SR4.

To have an adventure book based on the SR3 system come after the release of the SR4 system is a bit stupid. People buying the SR4 in the beginning will want to go ahead and run SR4 campaigns. They most likely will not start an SR4 campaign then go back and run an adventure that uses the SR3 rules and is set before the beginning of SR4, so there is far less chance they will bother purchasing System Failure if it is published after SR4.

Sorry, but I see the point that Shadows of Asia would be more important to get out. They want to complete the world info before coming out with SR4. System Failure is just an adventure, the results of which we will already know when SR4 comes out and tells us the story.

Since they have yet to publish the Shadows of Latin America book, its not like the publication of Shadows of Asia completed the world info.

Not to mention the missing Shadows Of Africa...

So, fuck the existing fanbase. Got it.

I think that's been made abundantly clear.

Clearly.

Lighten up a little y'all, there are only 24 hours in a day, and they have been pushing hard to get SR4 out along with 2 other books in 3 months. Fear not, you can always delay SR4 until you get System Failure in you hands.

Right, we could.

Or, hey, wait! Maybe they could have remembered there were only 24 hours in a day when they, a business, set out to start making crap, and gave us a release schedule. And then they could have prioritized a little better, so that stuff would get to us in a logical order (like, I dunno, System Failure before 4th Edition, or something zany like that).

What a weird idea.

The "whole story" is that they promised five books in as many months. One took a month and a half to be released in hardcopy after the PDF was made available, one was just made available on PDF and will be available three days before Gencon begins (hopefully. I've yet to see a hardcopy of Loose Alliances at my gaming store), and while Fourth Edition is supposed to be available at Gencon in the meanwhile they're overly optimistic release schedule has seen one book held off indefinitely (and will be out of date in the universe in nine days, regardless of how much isn't changed by System Failure, which I believe is total crap) and another book wrapping up Third Edition has fallen off the face of the Earth and is not even mentioned while the website proudly proclaims a book which is relatively inconsequential is now available on PDF and pre-order.

I say inconsequential only because the first book they are releasing after the core book is a book on the six primary locations that will serve as the backdrops for virtually all of Fourth Edition. Maybe it's just me, but focusing on releasing Shadows of Asia when in that light is just stupid from a marketing perspective unless all six of those locations are in Asia, which they aren't (Seattle is at least one).

From my perspective, I care a far greater deal more about System Failure's release than I do about Shadows of Asia. But, you say, you can still run events in System Failure after Fourth Edition is released. Sure, I can do that. I could have also gone back an not started up my games in 2060 when I picked up Shadowrun in Third Edition. I could have gone back to the Corp War, the Mob War, the 2057 Election, Bug City, the early 2050s, the Night of Rage, the EuroWars, the Crash of '29, the Indian Wars, or the Resource Rush.

But I already know what happens. My players already know what happens. If I do pick up Fourth Edition (which is a decision that is hardly set in stone at this point), then I could do that, or I could just restart the world in 2070 since my PCs who'd probably fall under the low-level spectrum as someone has informed me via PM several times would be similarly low-powered or somehow twisted in the conversion to Fourth Edition.

Or I could disregard Fourth Edition, and lose out on the only book that is supposed to cover the next five to six years of world events while I decide whether I want Fourth Edition, and if not, with System Failure I get a book with five-six years of material I wouldn't have by not buying Fourth Edition. And that is far more useful and important to me than any of the last five bopks released for Shadowrun, and if it's the difference between putting out Shadows of Asia or System Failure, I'll go for having System Failure any time.

At least System Failure would be useful enough to me on its face that I want to buy it, whereas what's out now is a luxury which I am more likely to never use compared to a book like System Failure which I would probably use until it fell apart on me.

I've played Shadowrun Third Edition for four years now. Maybe it's because we were so caught up in our own world and progressively buying the rules books and implementing them in the world that I didn't realize it, but now that I have the become a collector of books rather than just grabbing what I need, it struck me that Fanpro's 2005 release schedule was fucked from the beginning. Last year, they released three books, plus the Character Dossier.

This year they were completing Fourth Edition, and of course everything else would take a backseat to that (and has). It's August, and they have released one real book so far, and two are on the way. I don't have any expectation of more books coming out this year after Fourth Edition except maybe the GM Screen. Again, like last year they would have been optimistic to release three books when one of them is a new edition core book which takes more time and effort than anything else. Here I was shocked that it took so long between State of the Art and Loose Alliances and so stuck in my own world that I didn't realize that the idea that Fanpro could release five books before mid-August was insane. Clearly, neither did they.

I won't deny that System Failure is important, but no matter how you look at it, Shadows of Asia has far more commercial appeal. I'm sorry if you don't share my opinion, though.

I cannot disagree with you enough.

At least I'd buy System Failure. I have no intention of purchasing Shadows of Asia even if I did have the luxury of being able to continue buying books just because they were Shadowrun.

More importantly, by their very actions Fanpro has shown how unimportant they consider System Failure to be.

If I wanted to get jerked around by a gaming company, I'd still be pining away for the new version of Cyberpunk.

I understand that adventure books normally do not do as well commercially as content books, but by releasing the System Failure after the release of the new system makes it even less appealing to people.

Personally, I would prefer to have both System Failure and Shadows of Asia, but because of their decision to release System Failure after the release of SR4, I will in all likelihood just skip it and maybe get it later as a used book in the distant future to complete my collection. Once I get SR4 I am going to play using the new system, I am not going to want to go back and run an adventure using the old game mechanics, or worse still try to convert a brand new adventure book to the new mechanics.

I have to agree - it does not seem that anyone at fanpro knows how to schedule and/or prioritize projects. Seems like they put up a release schedule, with SR4 the 'Line in the sand'. No matter what else happens, SR4 will hit on Gencon 2005. That was poor planning. Seems like they've been playtesting and making changes right up to the wire - and that just screams rush job. Something's gonna get missed.


They should have targeted Gencon 2006 as the official release. Had it done by Orgins, and had something to show to the buyers/industry then. Along with cases of preview material to go back to the game stores.

It's possible that System Failure will be written for SR4. Were all assuming it will use the SR3 rules.

They have made it clear these last few months that their target audience is the younger D&D/Vampire gamers who haven't played SR before. Not the current crop of fans.

Thats not to say they don't want us, but we are not their 'Target Audience'.

Ah...but there is no telling when System Failure will be released, since nothing has been said by FanPro on the subject.
So for all we know it could be months before it comes out, without an idea of its release date I will likely just go ahead and start playing with SR4 rules, instead of buying the SR4 book and then stretching out my gaming group's play in SR3 long enough for an adventure book to be released some vague time in the future to explain the changes in the gameworld.

P.S. SL James, you don't have to get that upset. I mean jray is right about one thing, it is just a game. I definitely don't like FanPro's decision on not releasing System Failure yet, but it just ain't worth it to be that upset over. Nothing can change it at this point anyways.

IMO Shadows of Asia is way over due. It's been a neglected area in SR source books sense the beginning. I think Fanpro should have finished the SR 3 line before releasing SR 4 but that's just my opinion on marketing strategy (not that I'm a marketer or anything, just seems wise). As a fan I'm anxious to see SR 4 released and I'm glad that System Failure is getting shelved for the moment because quite honestly I'm anticipating SR 4 more then System Failure.

O_o

I don't think it's nearly as complicated as people are making it out to be. SoA came out first because SoA was completed writing months before System Failure. They could have sat on SoA longer, but it wouldn't have made System Failure finish any faster.

There was definitely some poor time/project management when it came to the final few SR3 releases and SR4. But keep in mind that many of the freelancers didn't even know SR4 was in the works until recently (I didn't know about SR4 until after I was done writing for both SoA and SoLA, and I didn't even know about SR4 when I wrote my proposals for System Failure).

My point is that System Failure is designed to finish out SR3, so why would anybody buy it after SR3 is already finished and SR4 is here?
If adventure books already sell poorly, by releasing it this way, doesn't it mean that almost nobody will buy it and thus what little profit they could have made from it won't happen at all?

Yeah, like I said, poor time/project management.

My guess is you will be seeing SF and SR4 very close to each other in release, though I have no way of saying that definitively.

Is it just me or does the SR4 marketing strategy seem like the same one that Coke used with New Coke?

Coke strategy - Hmmm we have a large market share but we want more. The people that don't drink coke drink pepsi. So lets make coke taste like pepsi and then everyone will drink coke.

SR4 strategy - Hmmm we have a market share but we want more. People prefer easier games. So lets make Shadowrun easier so everyone will want to play it.

And we all know how well New Coke worked.

Answer me this: what would be the problem if the adventure book that bridges the 5 year gap betwen 3E and 4E is written in the 4E rules?

I think this was addressed earlier, basically bridging the gap would require use of rules that may not even be present in SR 4, such as the new wireless matrix/old style matrix issues. I'd bet the SR 4 decking rules are going to be nothing like the SR 3 ones and thus incompatable with making System Failure an SR 4 book.

Rigging may have similar problems.

Unless the book started with the destruction of the matrix and none of the deckers could deck.

True.

You would think, with approaching six years of release schedules that in no way reflect reality, and lots of hand-waving and sheepish grins when products are released several months after their intended launch date, that a company would develop the ability to predict what they can and cannot accomplish in a set period of time. I've never been terribly forgiving of this practice, but it keeps getting worse. I know it isn't exactly lying, but it's still deceptive.

It happens once or twice, it's just bad luck. It's forgivable. It happens for the vast majority of Shadowrun products, and it not only irritates the fanbase, it gives the community at large a view of Shadowrun as a slipshod operation full of fantasy release dates. Every sourcebook becomes the next Duke Nukem Forever, or Daikatana. Respect is lost. Places stop stocking shelves, and people stop playing.

Why does this sort of thing persist?

I wouldn't give up on finding System Failure for sale at Gencon yet...

Ohhh, I get it.

They'll release it, like, an hour or two before SR:4. That's a real gap-bridger. Brilliant. That'll be great. These guys are real pros.