 System Failure, What's the status? |
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 Aug 9 2005, 06:13 PM
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#26
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd  Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473  |
I cannot disagree with you enough.
At least I'd buy System Failure. I have no intention of purchasing Shadows of Asia even if I did have the luxury of being able to continue buying books just because they were Shadowrun. More importantly, by their very actions Fanpro has shown how unimportant they consider System Failure to be. If I wanted to get jerked around by a gaming company, I'd still be pining away for the new version of Cyberpunk. This post has been edited by SL James: Aug 9 2005, 06:17 PM |
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Aug 9 2005, 06:30 PM
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#27
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
I understand that adventure books normally do not do as well commercially as content books, but by releasing the System Failure after the release of the new system makes it even less appealing to people.
Personally, I would prefer to have both System Failure and Shadows of Asia, but because of their decision to release System Failure after the release of SR4, I will in all likelihood just skip it and maybe get it later as a used book in the distant future to complete my collection. Once I get SR4 I am going to play using the new system, I am not going to want to go back and run an adventure using the old game mechanics, or worse still try to convert a brand new adventure book to the new mechanics. |
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Aug 9 2005, 06:37 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 19-August 02 Member No.: 3,139 |
I have to agree - it does not seem that anyone at fanpro knows how to schedule and/or prioritize projects. Seems like they put up a release schedule, with SR4 the 'Line in the sand'. No matter what else happens, SR4 will hit on Gencon 2005. That was poor planning. Seems like they've been playtesting and making changes right up to the wire - and that just screams rush job. Something's gonna get missed.
They should have targeted Gencon 2006 as the official release. Had it done by Orgins, and had something to show to the buyers/industry then. Along with cases of preview material to go back to the game stores. |
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Aug 9 2005, 06:42 PM
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#29
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Well, at least we agree to disagree.
Then you're not the market FanPro aims for. Simple as that.
Wrong on that one. System Failure IS important to FanPro, but it might be slightly less important than Shadows of Asia. At least that's how I see it (and besides, it might have something to do with SoA being written before SF). |
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Aug 9 2005, 06:54 PM
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#30
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
It's possible that System Failure will be written for SR4. Were all assuming it will use the SR3 rules.
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Aug 9 2005, 06:58 PM
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#31
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
True, that is an assumption that I am making, but since it is supposed to finish out the current storyline and at least part of it will be prior to advent of the new technologies in SR4 and the combination of deckers and riggers into Hackers, I believe that is a fairly safe assumption. I could be wrong, and I guess I won't actually know for certain until it comes out. |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:00 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 19-August 02 Member No.: 3,139 |
Are you implying that Fanpro's only market are those that buy everything with Shadowrun printerd on it?? That's assinine. I haven't bought everything printed - can't afford it. But when I can, I buy something I like - after I've done some research. So Fanpro isn't targeting me? They don't want my money? Thats just the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Fanpro's target audience should be everyone they can grab the attention of - for whatever period of time they can. Whether it's the die hard buy everything guy, or the person that doesnt' play, but picked up the Cyber book for some other game cause they wanted some inspiration. How many SR fans bought CP's chrome books for inspiration? |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:05 PM
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#33
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
They have made it clear these last few months that their target audience is the younger D&D/Vampire gamers who haven't played SR before. Not the current crop of fans.
Thats not to say they don't want us, but we are not their 'Target Audience'. |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:11 PM
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#34
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I'll just echo Eldritch and say that if that's the case, you know what? FUCK FANPRO Having been on this board for less than a month and a half, your position was becoming more and more clear as the opinion and perspective of Fanpro and the freelancer community, but I appreciate that you finally just admitted it. I'm not a fanboy. I never will be. And if that means I'm not the audience that Fanpro wants, then fuck it, I can take my business to another gaming system and company that may not integrate all of the elements Shadowrun has intrinsically intergrated. But, you know what, I can live with that if it means not having to put up with that crap. Fuck Fanpro. Fuck you. Fuck everyone who looks like you.
You just proved my point and you didn't even realize it. Do you even know what you're writing half the time? |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:16 PM
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#35
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
But wouldn't the younger D&D crowd be less inclined to buy content heavy books like Shadows of Asia? I mean D&D is a very world-content-light game. I may be wrong about this, but I don't think the campaign world type books sell very well at all for D&D. At least, not a single player I know has bought one of them and the same goes for most of the DMs I know. |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:23 PM
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#36
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Maybe you should take a little pill, chill out for a minute, and think about what has you so worked up. Its a game for God's sake. Waiting a little while to fully integrate a game shift shouldn't bother you at all unless you are timing your campaign so perfectly that you will be moving your characters directly into the events of System Failure on the first day of GenCon, and on the second day of GenCon you convert all your characters to SR4 and make the 5 year jump. I highly doubt it, though. |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:34 PM
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#37
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
Ah...but there is no telling when System Failure will be released, since nothing has been said by FanPro on the subject.
So for all we know it could be months before it comes out, without an idea of its release date I will likely just go ahead and start playing with SR4 rules, instead of buying the SR4 book and then stretching out my gaming group's play in SR3 long enough for an adventure book to be released some vague time in the future to explain the changes in the gameworld. P.S. SL James, you don't have to get that upset. I mean jray is right about one thing, it is just a game. I definitely don't like FanPro's decision on not releasing System Failure yet, but it just ain't worth it to be that upset over. Nothing can change it at this point anyways. |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:40 PM
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#38
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
No, I'm saying that it is possible that FanPro chose to release SoA over SF because it could sell better. If I wasn't a freelancer, I'd personally pick a location sourcebook like SoA, SoE or SoNA over most adventures or campaigns. As a matter of fact, I did that before becoming one: I bought Shadows of North America over Brainscan and several other books, simply because I couldn't afford them. I had to make a choice, and if my personal experience is of any value, I believe other people would do the same--far more than those that would go the other way. I'm not implying to insult or offend anyone. *I* couldn't afford getting all books before becoming a freelancer (and I still can't). It's really, really hard to save 25 dollars for a book, not to mention the cost for international mail, when you're a student in Uruguay. Only now, thanks to freelancing and a stable job, I've been able to (slowly) complete my collection, though I very much doubt I'll ever have all SR3 books. I paid sixty (60) dollars to get SR3 in '98. It's been a very personal agony what has happened to SoLA. Ok, I'm getting carried away and that's not good. I'll cool down and come back later, sorry. :| |
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Aug 9 2005, 07:51 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 6-March 03 Member No.: 4,211 |
IMO Shadows of Asia is way over due. It's been a neglected area in SR source books sense the beginning. I think Fanpro should have finished the SR 3 line before releasing SR 4 but that's just my opinion on marketing strategy (not that I'm a marketer or anything, just seems wise). As a fan I'm anxious to see SR 4 released and I'm glad that System Failure is getting shelved for the moment because quite honestly I'm anticipating SR 4 more then System Failure.
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Aug 9 2005, 07:57 PM
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#40
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
O_o
I don't think it's nearly as complicated as people are making it out to be. SoA came out first because SoA was completed writing months before System Failure. They could have sat on SoA longer, but it wouldn't have made System Failure finish any faster. There was definitely some poor time/project management when it came to the final few SR3 releases and SR4. But keep in mind that many of the freelancers didn't even know SR4 was in the works until recently (I didn't know about SR4 until after I was done writing for both SoA and SoLA, and I didn't even know about SR4 when I wrote my proposals for System Failure). |
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Aug 9 2005, 08:02 PM
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#41
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
My point is that System Failure is designed to finish out SR3, so why would anybody buy it after SR3 is already finished and SR4 is here?
If adventure books already sell poorly, by releasing it this way, doesn't it mean that almost nobody will buy it and thus what little profit they could have made from it won't happen at all? |
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Aug 9 2005, 08:13 PM
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#42
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Yeah, like I said, poor time/project management.
My guess is you will be seeing SF and SR4 very close to each other in release, though I have no way of saying that definitively. |
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Aug 9 2005, 09:05 PM
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#43
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Boise, Salish Sidhe Member No.: 584 |
Is it just me or does the SR4 marketing strategy seem like the same one that Coke used with New Coke?
Coke strategy - Hmmm we have a large market share but we want more. The people that don't drink coke drink pepsi. So lets make coke taste like pepsi and then everyone will drink coke. SR4 strategy - Hmmm we have a market share but we want more. People prefer easier games. So lets make Shadowrun easier so everyone will want to play it. And we all know how well New Coke worked. |
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Aug 9 2005, 09:35 PM
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#44
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Answer me this: what would be the problem if the adventure book that bridges the 5 year gap betwen 3E and 4E is written in the 4E rules?
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Aug 9 2005, 09:49 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 6-March 03 Member No.: 4,211 |
I think this was addressed earlier, basically bridging the gap would require use of rules that may not even be present in SR 4, such as the new wireless matrix/old style matrix issues. I'd bet the SR 4 decking rules are going to be nothing like the SR 3 ones and thus incompatable with making System Failure an SR 4 book.
Rigging may have similar problems. |
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Aug 9 2005, 10:32 PM
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#46
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
Unless the book started with the destruction of the matrix and none of the deckers could deck.
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Aug 9 2005, 10:47 PM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 6-March 03 Member No.: 4,211 |
True.
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Aug 9 2005, 11:47 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
You would think, with approaching six years of release schedules that in no way reflect reality, and lots of hand-waving and sheepish grins when products are released several months after their intended launch date, that a company would develop the ability to predict what they can and cannot accomplish in a set period of time. I've never been terribly forgiving of this practice, but it keeps getting worse. I know it isn't exactly lying, but it's still deceptive.
It happens once or twice, it's just bad luck. It's forgivable. It happens for the vast majority of Shadowrun products, and it not only irritates the fanbase, it gives the community at large a view of Shadowrun as a slipshod operation full of fantasy release dates. Every sourcebook becomes the next Duke Nukem Forever, or Daikatana. Respect is lost. Places stop stocking shelves, and people stop playing. Why does this sort of thing persist? |
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Aug 10 2005, 04:08 AM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 265 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bangkok (sometimes Paris) Member No.: 332 |
I wouldn't give up on finding System Failure for sale at Gencon yet...
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Aug 10 2005, 05:23 AM
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#50
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Ohhh, I get it.
They'll release it, like, an hour or two before SR:4. That's a real gap-bridger. Brilliant. That'll be great. These guys are real pros. |
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