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> So is there anything anyone DOES like about SR 4?
icharbezol
post Aug 16 2005, 11:51 PM
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I'd like to know if there is anything at all that anyone anywhere has positive to say about SR4.
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JongWK
post Aug 16 2005, 11:52 PM
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(EDITED)

IMHO, it's a significant improvement over SR3. Some will like it, some won't. I do like it.
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 16 2005, 11:53 PM
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I've heard very good things about the new Matrix system from mfb. Jury's still out, since I don't know if I like to deck like he likes to deck.

~J
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Homme-qui-rigole
post Aug 16 2005, 11:53 PM
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Something positive? Yeah, it's only 352 pages!!! :rotfl:
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Bandwidthoracle
post Aug 16 2005, 11:55 PM
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well:

Good art
Good cover
Augmented Reality
Wireless Stuff
Cleaned up magic (Yay!)
Varible health boxes
Technomancers
Combining Riggers/hackers
The matrix is still there!
The Cyber/bio both drawn essence
Book layout (juding by index)

There is so much to like this far. Hopefully more to come
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Sabosect
post Aug 16 2005, 11:56 PM
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Everything except the art so far.
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chevalier_neon
post Aug 16 2005, 11:58 PM
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Yes !
It is a good thing that they are trying to use the same rules for combat, magie, hacking etc... Now of course, we will have to see how things have been done.
It is a good thing to use a fixed TN system. Of course, I can understand the people that are complaining that it won't be that funny and exciting to success from time to time in task/events that were so hard that your character is becoming a legend... On the other hand, it was really ridiculous when even with a TN of 30, a really lucky character was having a success.
This is really great that 3 will be the average rating for an attribute or a skill, as things should have been since the beginning. It was senseless to say that 6 was outstanding, and everybody had 6...
It is great that they are using this 4ed. to lure new client, and thus, focusing again on the world description...
Everything looks great, but, so that everybody on this forum will be happy, I will wait to see... (in fact, I won't... SR4 will rock, this will be the best edition ever written!!!)
LONG LIFE TO SR4
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mintcar
post Aug 17 2005, 12:01 AM
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Everything eccept the fonts, the green color, the record sheet and the map.
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 17 2005, 12:26 AM
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QUOTE (chevalier_neon)
On the other hand, it was really ridiculous when even with a TN of 30, a really lucky character was having a success.

Yeah, I really hate it how once every four hundred times someone tries a TN 30 task with 20 dice to back them up they actually land at least one success.

Or how about that once in every more than 300,000 times that they score more than one success? That really ticks me off.

~J
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Ellery
post Aug 17 2005, 12:50 AM
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I have heard positive things about the wireless matrix stuff, and the table of contents for that section looks promising. So I am looking forward to that. I'm hoping that vehicle combat will be better integrated into regular combat, but I've not heard a lot on that. I like the design and layout of the cover (not counting the picture or the font used for "fourth edition"). I'm mildly positive about splitting up attributes. It could work well, and I hope the fact that they did it indicates that they made sure it did work well.
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 17 2005, 01:16 AM
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Things I like:
  • Otaku losing the "we're only stereotyped kids" limitation.
  • An attempt to unify the game mechanics into a single system (though the system they've chosen leaves much to be desired).
  • Inclusion of edges and flaws in the core book.
  • Splitting damage codes into armor penetration and damage (or, more correctly, labelling them as such).
  • Wireless technology and augmented reality.
  • Most of the other concepts used in the design process, just not the end product of those concepts.
Just about everything else I've seen, and especially the art, is a big thumbs-down. Enough that I won't be purchasing the core book unless I can find it for next to nothing a few months down the line.
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blakkie
post Aug 17 2005, 01:34 AM
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QUOTE (icharbezol @ Aug 16 2005, 05:51 PM)
I'd like to know if there is anything at all that anyone anywhere has positive to say about SR4.

I've collected a few quotes from a few people that were given a chance for an advanced screening.

"I like that i can surf the matrix for pr0n while i go my week's supply of SoyJolt at the local Stuffer Shack." - 20-something decker finally leaving his mother's basement

"While i can now put the Ack! in Hacker, i still put the Grrrr in Rigger." - Austin Powers

"The cover art rocks my world." - some blind guy

EDIT: Personally i think SR4 is the third coming of Elvis. :notworthy: More details on that to come tomorrow night shortly after i DL the PDF.
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Solstice
post Aug 17 2005, 04:08 AM
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It wil be hardbound....
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nezumi
post Aug 17 2005, 01:51 PM
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I like the fact that they've simplified things. I've just started a game of Exalted, so I'm on the fence about the new dice system. But having everything run on the same system is a good idea. Vehicle rules look reasonable (or at least less complex) which is also a welcome change.
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Bigity
post Aug 17 2005, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
Things I like:
  • Otaku losing the "we're only stereotyped kids" limitation.
  • An attempt to unify the game mechanics into a single system (though the system they've chosen leaves much to be desired).
  • Inclusion of edges and flaws in the core book.
  • Splitting damage codes into armor penetration and damage (or, more correctly, labelling them as such).
  • Wireless technology and augmented reality.
  • Most of the other concepts used in the design process, just not the end product of those concepts.
Just about everything else I've seen, and especially the art, is a big thumbs-down. Enough that I won't be purchasing the core book unless I can find it for next to nothing a few months down the line.

Wait, so otaku don't fade anymore? Why would anyone make a plain decker anymore then?
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Darkness
post Aug 17 2005, 02:09 PM
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They still fade. It's in the TOC, under the Technomancer entry is one called The Fading.
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icharbezol
post Aug 17 2005, 03:06 PM
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The base mechanic, unifying all the systems, is the main thing that did it for me. SR should have incorporated this a long time ago, in my own opiinion. It's not too difficult to look up things in the current rulebook if you have the time, but I have always foremost seen SR as a game of action and motion. Hard to keep the action in motion when you have to reference several different rules systems in the course of a single combat round.

Wireless technology is sure to have interesting applications, looking forward to seeing how they implement it. Augmented reality has long been a favorite genre twist of mine (always liked the CyberGeneration game), so it's a welcome inclusion in SR4 for me.

I like both the renaming of Edges/Flaws, and the inclusion of Qualities in the main book.

I like the changes made to the damage tracking system.

I like some of the art; I really like the elf girl with the crossbow and freckles. And bell bottoms. She's my favorite so far.
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Blacken
post Aug 17 2005, 07:47 PM
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The art is awesome. The rest is very iffy.
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Jrayjoker
post Aug 17 2005, 08:00 PM
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So in short, there are lots of things we like, we just don't all share the same opinion of what they are.

:)

I like most of the art, the weapon specialist is a fine picture.

I like the unification of rules sets.

I like that new book smell, too.
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Blacken
post Aug 17 2005, 08:01 PM
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If we're going to get into smells...well, I've never bought a P&P game book new, so I can't comment.

Got 'em for Christmas before, though. And they've sat around so long before I opened 'em that they stopped smellin'. :(
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Phantom Runner
post Aug 17 2005, 08:54 PM
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I like everything I have seen so far...even if I never get the chance to run another Shadowrun game, I will get 4E...
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Adarael
post Aug 17 2005, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE
Why would anyone make a plain decker anymore then?


1) The ability to act like a normal human being.
2) The ability to lift object that weigh more than a styrofoam peanut.
3) The ability to hit someone with more force than that whiny kid you always used to pick on at summer camp.
4) The ability to use money to upgrade, rather than karma.
5) The ability to start the game with more than three posessions (datajacks, clothes, umbrella)

Just to name some.

I mean, as far as game balance goes, 'fading' is BS. How many characters will routinely be in play long enough for this to become an issue? If you're gonna make something a viable player class, don't say "Spend a bunch of points out the starting gate, and then when you hit our artificially constructed barrier, lose all that karma you invested, and what you paid those points at starting for."

Deckers spend a lot of money to stay hot. Otaku replace that with karma. Each are better at certain aspects of what they do. Have you ever heard of a combat otaku who was halfway as effective as a combat decker?
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 17 2005, 10:19 PM
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Not Fading screws over flavour, not balance.

~J
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Adarael
post Aug 17 2005, 10:28 PM
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I don't think they shoulda faded in the first place.
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Aristotle
post Aug 17 2005, 10:57 PM
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I'll continue not using them, if I can help it, so it won't be an issue for me either way. :)
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