 Shadowrun 4: Magic |
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 Aug 24 2005, 07:34 PM
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#151
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Los Coronados | San Ysidro CA Member No.: 106  |
The new magic system for spells is perhaps (IMO at least) one of the largest areas of change. When you obtain/buy a new spell formulae now, you are obtaining the formulation ... not the "FORCE LIMIT". The limit on the spell force at the time of casting is chosen at the time of casting. So if you want to cast a spell that is Force 5 one time and then the same spell at Force 8 some other time ... you may do so now. Drain Values change as do many of the mechanics for the success levels/hits with regards to Force. Additionally, determining if a spell is "mental damage" or "physical damage" for drain depends upon the Force as compared to your Magic Attribute. |
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Aug 24 2005, 07:36 PM
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#152
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Some of those still had use for higher Force, if only for avoiding dispelling. They were just places where you could miser a few karma and still limp along. Or the spell was designed poorly that allowed a Force 1 spell to work small wonders (e.g. Invisibility). Also since Force now always limits hits the usefulness some of those types of spells cast at low Force is going to drop off. |
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Aug 24 2005, 08:06 PM
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#153
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 293 Joined: 27-January 03 From: Kentucky, USA Member No.: 3,958 |
Ah, okay. Thanks for the replies! |
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Aug 24 2005, 08:17 PM
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#154
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 22-August 05 Member No.: 7,587 |
I didn't see a rule in the book. My inclination is to allow [Magic Rating] targets in addition to oneself. That's probably enough to work well for a typical team, and I believe has precedent? |
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Aug 24 2005, 08:36 PM
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#155
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Los Coronados | San Ysidro CA Member No.: 106 |
I'm not sure if it has precedent, but it would be one of the two limits I would personally impose were I to do so. The other might be the use of the Intuition attribute as that is somewhat the limitation on what you can track. Perhaps use the Intuition + Perception as the actual/total number in such a limitation if your GM chooses to do so. On the other hand, the next time my mage gets caught in a magical firefight in a stadium with lots of people it would be nice to say "I'm Counterspelling Defense for everyone in the section around me" just to minimalize collateral damage (and thus hits on Reputation). |
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Aug 24 2005, 08:36 PM
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#156
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Browsed through the thread so forgive me if I missed this answer. Did anyone else notice on page 189 under Initiation it says:
Emphasis mine.
This seems to explicitly state that Mystic Adepts can't initate? I guess the authors could have felt that the Mystic Adepts were implied as they are a little of column A and a little of column B. Did anyone find anything that says specifically that Mystic Adepts can initiate? |
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Aug 24 2005, 08:37 PM
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#157
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
As to starting adept powers, since the costs are going to be relatively the same as SR3 one would almost have to purchase her magic up to 6 during character creation to get the basic set of powers needed to survive:
Improved Initiative 2 (3 PP) Improved ability - physical skill +2 (.5 PP) Improved ability - combat skill +2 (1 PP) Mystic armour +2 (1 PP) one other power at .5PP One more question: Can adepts still purchase additional power points directly with Karma as in SR3 or do they just increase their magic attribute? |
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Aug 24 2005, 08:46 PM
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#158
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
My money is on this belonging in the Errata thread. |
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Aug 24 2005, 08:49 PM
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#159
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
I hope so. Magician Adept initiation was always a problematic thing due to bad wording but to remove it entirely would be a bit draconian! |
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Aug 24 2005, 10:45 PM
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#160
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Can mundane characters Awaken by buying the Magician, Adept, or mystical Adept qualities, then increasing Magic?
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Aug 24 2005, 10:53 PM
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#161
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Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95 |
Out of curiosity, do you really read that statement as meaning that Mystic Adepts cannot initiate? I mean, honestly, and no offense intended, but it really looks like you are picking things apart word by word and trying to dig for meaing when there isn't. I mean, look at the spirit of it. Do you think the spirit was to imply that mundance charactrers could not initiate, in conjunction with another place in the rulebook where it states that the magician and/or adept qualities can not be bought after character creation, or do you really think they meant to say mystic adepts could not initiate, and if they did mean that, don't you think that they might say "Mystic Adepts, due to the unique nature of their magic, blah, blah, blah... can not initiate" Derek |
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Aug 24 2005, 11:12 PM
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#162
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
When trying to find Erratum, you have to, by necessity, pick it apart word for word. After all, since they can fix it in future printings, why not? It is a valid Erratum, I think, and leaves an unintended interpretation into the mix. You cannot purchase the Magic/Resonance-related qualities after character creation (There is specific language which does not allow this). Thus, you can't "Awaken" or become a Technomancer by buying the Quality afterwards. As always, GM's have the final say, and each game will have their own house rules.
As stated previously in the thread, they cannot buy power points. They must increase their magic attribute.
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Aug 24 2005, 11:55 PM
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#163
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Ritual magic uses the new teamwork rules, unless the target is out of sight, then a spotter is needed. Funny it now needs its own seperate skill. Should teamwork be a seperate skill for any other skill use? Like I said, powering down magic, this time by requiring more BP/karma to be spread among more skills. The 5 karma for a new spell seems high at this point, because one used to be able to astral quest to reduce karma cost for new spells. Lets hope that option remains in the supplement. |
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Aug 25 2005, 04:56 AM
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#164
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
They tried to fix the language for Permanent spells, saying,
Somehow, I think people will still argue they act like sustained spells during the sustaining period, and during that time effects are present. I wish this had been clarified either way. |
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Aug 25 2005, 05:04 AM
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#165
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 263 Joined: 18-October 03 From: Cal Free State Member No.: 5,734 |
The second word in "Mystic Adept" is "adept". Therefore, wouldn't they be included in the statement that people with the Adept quality can initiate? I think your just limiting your interpretation of the statement in your head... ;) |
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Aug 25 2005, 05:24 AM
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#166
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I think it should get clarified either way.
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Aug 25 2005, 05:47 AM
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#167
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 400 |
Is there a different cost for the Mystic Adept quality, or is it the same as the garden variety adept? If the latter is true, then there's no problem.
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Aug 25 2005, 06:19 AM
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#168
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
how do damage manip spells(or I saw them, called indirect combat spells I believe in a previous post) work. In 3rd edition they kinda sucked IMO, there drain costs were exorbitant for the effects gained. Yet since that was the only way to get elemental effects I dug them. Also the 4 target number was kinda cool. Now everything has a 5 TN not 4 not body etc. So how do these spells work, and how is that different from I guess direct combat spells? |
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Aug 25 2005, 06:35 AM
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#169
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hey, dont forget that between SR2 and SR3 they ripped the spell grounding rules out of the game with no explanation what so ever.
compared to that i would say the conjuring rules are kinda coverd as i belive there was a group of mages and shamans working on a unified magical theory in one of the latest books... but this isnt realy the place to discuss this, rant threads about changes are below :P |
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Aug 25 2005, 06:47 AM
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#170
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
your right, I edited my post to remove that part. I didn't intend it as a rant, just idle blathering but I can see how it could be misinterpreted and this is the wrong thread for that. |
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Aug 25 2005, 06:52 AM
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#171
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 400 |
Does Mystic Armor stack with other armor?
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Aug 25 2005, 08:05 AM
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#172
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
They have different costs. The adepts section has a subsection about mystic adepts, so I would say that is why they lumped them together in initiation.
They work like ranged attacks, Magic + spellcasting vs Reactiion. If the caster gets any net successes, then the target gets to resisit damage with Body + half Impact armor + possible counterspelling. Looks like all the drain codes are +2 compared to similar (P or S) direct combat spells.
Yes. |
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Aug 25 2005, 09:00 AM
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#173
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Target Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: 26-May 02 Member No.: 2,769 |
Just wanted to mention that you can no longer caste spells through ANY vision magnification devices, even optic binoculars. No more fiber optics either. BUT it did not say that you had to take range penalitys into account when casting spells. If your target is in LOS, NUKE um ;)
Also counterspelling (ie spell defense) is much stronger now and can be used passively to much greater effect. Though it too is based off LOS now. |
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Aug 25 2005, 09:30 AM
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#174
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
what adept powers are there anyway??
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Aug 25 2005, 09:52 AM
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#175
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
That dosen't sound right, as 'magesight' or something goggles were discussed earlier, involving 'fiber optics' that let you cast spells around a corner. Can you double check that? |
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