 Shadowrun 4: Magic |
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 Aug 25 2005, 10:17 AM
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#176
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Great, I'm a Dragon...  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698  |
We had that as a houserule in SR3 and it worked out fine. The karma cost had been 6 though. |
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Aug 25 2005, 01:53 PM
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#177
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
This is incorrect. p324 shows three ways you can use fiberoptics or mirrors to "shoot around corners" as it were. p173 only refers to technological visual aids that substitute for your own senses, just like in SR3. All methods of extending your LOS around cover give a -3 dice penalty. Also, while Range penalties may not apply, all standard visual modifiers (including cover, Visibility, etc.) still count for the spellcasting test (p173). |
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Aug 25 2005, 03:52 PM
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#178
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Yes casting through visiual aids is still around. Vision magnification is available for binoculars, contact lenses, glasses, goggles a monocle, periscope or mage sight goggles. It even says in its description, "...optical (ideal for spellcasting at distant targets)...".
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Aug 25 2005, 09:38 PM
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#179
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Just checking; What sources of Attribute boosting works for increasing Attributes in regards to casting, summoning, etc. For example i assume that hermetics do not get to include the extra Logic from a Cerebral Booster when resisting drain. True?
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Aug 25 2005, 10:50 PM
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#180
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Actually, there is no language that forbids using the bonus Logic dice from either a Cerebral Booster or an Increase Logic spell for the purposes of resisting Drain. You can have a Hermetic with a Rating 3 Cerebral Booster running around that gets +3 dice for Drain resistance. However, keep in mind that it reduces your Magic attribute, which is much more important than it was before (and it was pretty darn important before). |
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Aug 26 2005, 01:10 AM
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#181
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
question: can the 'exceptional attribute' quality be applied to magic ?
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Aug 26 2005, 01:23 AM
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#182
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
hehe That's a good question!!! I have another one: Can physads have a mentor spirit? If so, what kind of bonus does/would/could it give? I assume it's mostly meant for spellcasters, but at the same time, I don't quite see why adepts couldn't. There were totemic adepts or something like that before, right? |
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Aug 26 2005, 02:22 AM
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#183
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Magicians Way Adept, which is now called Mystic Adept. They are casters. I certainly hope those can have a totem. P.S. Is there any language that forbids taking the Adept Quality and the mage Quality? |
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Aug 26 2005, 02:25 AM
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#184
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
No, it is for Physical and Mental stats only, not edge, not resonance, not magic.
Any magically active character can have a mentor spirit if they buy the quality. Bear gives a +2 dice modifier for resisting Physical damage, Cat gives +2 to gynastics or infiltration tests, Dark King gives +2 for Perception tests, Dragonslayer gets a +2 for tests with one Social Skill of choice, Moon Maiden gets +2 to Negotiation, Rat gets +2 for infiltration tests and +2 for resisting disease and poisons, Sea gives a +2 for swimming tests, Seductress gives a +2 for Con tests, Thunderbird grants a +2 for intimidation tests, and Trickster gets a +2 for Con.
Yes, it is expressly forbidden. |
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Aug 26 2005, 02:54 AM
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#185
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 639 Joined: 22-April 02 Member No.: 2,638 |
Please tell me those aren't the only totem choices...
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Aug 26 2005, 03:07 AM
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#186
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I'm making a Cat sneaky Adept! |
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Aug 26 2005, 03:44 AM
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#187
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
That is only 9 of 19 Mentors that are in the BBB (compared to 17 in SR3 BBB). But given that he only listed the 2nd +2 for one of them, totems apparently all having two +2 bonuses, he was probably only listing ones that had stuff normally usable to Adepts. |
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Aug 26 2005, 03:57 AM
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#188
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
I think there's a few others, but as has always been the case, the core book has a small selection. For once the selection goes outside the traditional "Native American Animal Totem" selction and picks a few others, which is nice. I expect to see a bunch more pop up in Street Magic and later books.
I'm also really happy to see that Totems were now designed with both Spellcasters and Adepts in mind. I've always felt that it made just as much sense for "Shamanic Adepts" to exist (And in fact this was always what I felt Stackpole's "Wolf" character was), but the game rules never fully supported them. Bull |
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Aug 26 2005, 06:12 AM
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#189
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Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95 |
I want my voudoun Loa!
On a serious note, are there plans for other types of spellcasters/other traditions to have different spirits/different metamagic (like psionics, voudoun, bug shaman, etc...) Derek |
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Aug 26 2005, 11:48 AM
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#190
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
Holy!!! YESSSSSS!!! As Bull just mentioned, it's nice that they finally gave totem modifiers that would make sense for adepts too. Only one mentor spirit per magic user though, IIRC, so I guess I might have to adjust my adept a bit. He was more hermetic than shamanic, but he nevertheless uses totemic symbols as focuses for his development, sort of representing different aspect of himself or of his (yet-to-conquer) ideals. It was mostly flavour, but now that some bonuses of mentor spirits make sense for adepts, I might adjust the concept a bit. How much does the Mentor Spirit quality costs? (It's probably on here somewhere, but the threads are getting long.) |
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Aug 26 2005, 02:28 PM
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#191
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
It was mentioned and i think it was 5 BP, definately no more than 10BP. |
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Aug 26 2005, 02:56 PM
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#192
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Different spirits, maybe. There will most definitely be overlap in spirit categories (for instance, shamans and hermetics share a bunch of spirit types they can summon), but I would not be surprised to see a few more spirit categories added to the existing six. Blood spirits, for instance, could be one. I'm quite sure that they would follow the existing spirit rules, though. Just likely with different stats and an assortment of different powers. Likewise, I'm sure we'll see more metamagic techniques, but I don't think you'll see them limited to just a single tradition. Though some metamagic techniques will probably be more common to one tradition to another, and they very likely have different ways of expressing the metamagic. |
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Aug 26 2005, 03:12 PM
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#193
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Los Coronados | San Ysidro CA Member No.: 106 |
I have to admit, I kinda had to stop one of the other players from the HHH.com group from asking Rob/Adam this at the "What's Up Seminar" at Gencon. I'm fairly certain suggestions for traditions will come along, but nothing else of real significance. On the flipside, our own "House Rules" for "Psionics" will finally get some serious redrafting taking from material that does work in SR4 And on semi-unrelated note, I'm working on my "core opinion" post for SR4 now that I'm pretty much done with the new core book and have thrown some scenarios around. Just have to find a place to put it. |
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Aug 26 2005, 07:47 PM
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#194
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
The system gives a basic set of guidelines for making alternate traditions. It really comes down to selecting the spirits and choosing a drain-resisting attribute. I expect the Magic book, or possibly the Critters book, to add additional spirit types that might be more appropriate as Loas. |
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Aug 26 2005, 08:30 PM
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#195
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Looking at Combat Sense p198, I find it very difficult to believe that it's an Active/Psychic spell. I think it should be Passive/Psychic, looking in the spell description of the effect and the sheer mechanics of the spell in question. Otherwise, you'll be rolling lots of Opposed tests, something that should only be reserved for things like Detect Individual or Mind Probe.
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Aug 26 2005, 09:07 PM
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#196
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Los Coronados | San Ysidro CA Member No.: 106 |
Yeah, one of the guys here noticed that one in our group as well. |
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Aug 27 2005, 12:23 AM
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#197
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
So... just out of curiosity, how high can it go? How many dice can you get to defend against, say someone who shoots at you or takes a swing at you with a battleaxe? Can an adept get both combat sense and improved dodge? How about increase reaction and improved reflexes? (I think the latter adds to reaction, right?)
(Talia Invierno)
Does your melee combat skill count at all when defending in melee? I would assume so, but it's still fuzzy in my head: I haven't seen any melee combat example yet. Say you have improved (melee combat skill) maxed out, plus combat sense, improved dodge, increase reaction and improved reflexes all maxed out, how many dice could you roll in melee if you choose a full defense? I know a starting character can't have all of this, but I'm curious to see how big a difference magic can make in SR4 melee combat. |
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Aug 27 2005, 12:38 AM
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#198
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
When defending against a melee attack, you use Reaction + appropriate Melee skill or Reaction + Dodge.
Although there's many ways to "stack" attribute/skill dice, remember that there is a hard cap of 1.5 times the maximum possible rating of the attribute or skill. Improved Ability does not count toward this hard cap for skills, so the highest possible you can see for a human is 9 + 9 + 7 or 25 dice (with a probable +2 for smartlink and any available Take Aim actions). |
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Aug 27 2005, 01:03 AM
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#199
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
So Combat Sense boosts reaction rather than give bonus dice as a specialization or Improved (Skill) does?
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Aug 27 2005, 01:21 AM
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#200
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
It can go higher, believe me.
Agility of 7 for elf. Exceptional attribute quality puts it to 8. 1.5 x 8 = 12 Muscle toner 4 to actually get Agility 12. (Or Improved Physical Attribute adept power.) Increase attribute spell is limited by Force must meet or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute. The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored. (Ritual spellcasting?) Sustaining focus. + at least 12 for the example. Skill of 6 Aptitude for skill, +1 = 7 Improved ability adept power 7. Analyze Device: allows the subject to analyze the purpose and operation of a device or piece of equipment within range of the sense.Must beat the items obj. res.. Each net success gives the subject a bonus die while operating the device. Another + 10 for the example? Reflex recorder +1. Smartlink +2 Weapon specialization +2 Aim +? |
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