 Shadowrun 4: Magic |
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 Aug 22 2005, 08:39 PM
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#51
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd  Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473  |
Do Adepts still get the skill bonuses from Centering, or is Centering just another term for "drain reduction"?
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Aug 22 2005, 08:41 PM
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#52
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Centering is just another term for Drain Reduction. Adepts can still take Centering to reduce the Drain from their powers. Still, I don't think that the devs could totally throw away the "Centering to Reduce Penalties" idea... Maybe it's coming back in "Street Magic", along with the long list of all the rest of Metamagic. |
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Aug 22 2005, 08:45 PM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
Adept powers with drain ????? :eek: apart from adrenalin kick, i don't recall any adept power with drain, are there more now? examples....plz...thx
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Aug 22 2005, 08:50 PM
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#54
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
The SR3 Attribute Boost (not Attribute Increase) series of powers had drain. Some other use activated too i think, i don't recall them straight off. But ya, there weren't a lot of powers that did. Just like there weren't a lot of use activated powers. |
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Aug 22 2005, 09:02 PM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
we are probably talkin 'bout the same thing, but i have the german version, meaning i have to retranslate it, which sometimes turns things to goo.
which brings me to another question, what are the effects of this 'turn-to-goo' spell? |
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Aug 22 2005, 09:09 PM
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#56
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
You get turned to goo. It's a messier form of Petrify, and possibly one of the most dangerous spells (for the targets, at least) in SR. |
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Aug 22 2005, 09:24 PM
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#57
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 21-August 05 Member No.: 7,586 |
and i am gonna luv it!!! :evil:
i used to use petrify to turn enemy street sams to merchandise (some water is all you need)... :vegm: |
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Aug 22 2005, 10:11 PM
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#58
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Some of the Metamagics in State of the Art (Infusion for sure, and maybe Somatic Control) suffer drain after using them. |
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Aug 22 2005, 10:46 PM
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#59
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
Magic Loss effectivly reduces your Attribute Cap. Your Magic Attribute Cap is effectigvly Essence+Initiate Levels. Initiation gives you access to a metamagic ability and raises your Magic Attribute Cap, but does not raise your actual Magic Attribute, as noted by others. If you lose essence, both your current magic attribute and your attribute cap drops. if your current magic rating drops to 0, you become mundane and lose all access to magic. Bull |
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Aug 22 2005, 10:52 PM
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#60
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
The question that hasn't been answered, though (and this is the one everyone wants to know): When you buy back your Magic attribute point, is it from the Current Magic Attribute in Karma or from the previous Magic attribute level before the loss?
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Aug 22 2005, 11:24 PM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 05 Member No.: 7,093 |
Whoa, okay, so Initiating doesn't give you a shiny new magic point, but instead raises the MAX magic points you can have? As in, a 6th Grade Initiate would have a max total magic of 12? Also, once you raise this cap, you actually have to pay MORE karma to raise your magic up to the new cap? Example: Mage A has a starting Magic of 6, he's at the cap 'cause he's a converted SR3 (or whatever) but he's just earned enough Karma for his first initiation. He collects his metamagic, and looks forward to being able to cast force 14 spells when he needs to, but first must raise his Magic attribute to the superhuman level of 7 with Karma he's not likely to get for a good long while. Years later Mage A has initiated 14 straight times, and raised his magic attribute to a staggering 20. He then loads up on 5 Essence points of cyber and bio, and ends up with a final effective Magic rating of 15, still more than enough to toast any puny mortal who stands in his way . . . especially now that he goes 4 times a turn. Is this right? Or is the Magic Att still capped at 6 (or 7, I guess) with Initiation adding its rating for dice purposes and physical/stun purposes? |
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Aug 22 2005, 11:37 PM
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#62
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Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
That's correct.
That's also correct.
Which is also correct. Mind you, that character will take quite a bit of essence to develop to that level, and since he's sunk every point of karma he has into initiating, he might, uh, be limited in some other respects. |
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Aug 22 2005, 11:51 PM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 119 Joined: 17-August 05 Member No.: 7,566 |
But he also doesn't have to sink karma into spells for additional force. So, instead of buying 6 levels of initiation and Hellfire 12 and Treat 12 (and any iterations before i.e. Force 7, 8....12), you buy 6 levels of initiation and 6 levels of magic, effectively upping your spells to Force 12. This also allows you to up the effective force of the spell to 24 (and maybe die from drain :vegm: )
I have to say, Magic is not the Karma sink it used to be.....or at the very least has leveled out. But, I will wait to officially cheer, cry or what-not once I am able to view my own copy of SR4. |
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Aug 22 2005, 11:52 PM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 05 Member No.: 7,093 |
By essence I assume you mean Karma, and yes, he will likely be deficient in most other areas . . . which means jack all when he can weild his mighty force 10 + spells like jackhammers against all the problems he's faced with in the world. The only difficulty he'd have is in finding the karma to bond sustaining foci for all his incredible Increase Attribute spells. The very thought of some being acheiving such a level of personal power would be wet-your-pants scary to people like Street-Sams who are limited to mortal levels of competence by the skill and attribute caps. Hell most highly competent magicians will run screaming when this juggernaut arrives on the scene, spewing death and torment all about him. This is a guy who could kill almost anything alive simply by autosuccessing a combat spell at force 10 (DV 15 if I'm reading the rules posted in these forums right, and assuming a Spellcasting skill of 5 with no Edge added). Holy god mages are now 'Teh UbeR!' .... You know what, I think I like this. :D |
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Aug 22 2005, 11:55 PM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 119 Joined: 17-August 05 Member No.: 7,566 |
No auto-successes on "stressful" rolls..which I assume covers combat and binding a small god..er...spirit... to your will.
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Aug 23 2005, 12:18 AM
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#66
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I think that the high grade Initiate is eventually going to have drain issues even casting his highest Force Stun drain muchless overcasting. Especially if he didn't developed the rest of his character to max out Will*, Cha/Log, and Edge. Even with Centering as one of the metamagics to give (Grade) extra drain resist dice, unless he sticks to very drain friendly spells i get the impression he'll have a lot of base drain boxes and at an average of 1 hit/3 dice it seems that the drain growth will outpace most drains of the top Force for Stun. Centering drops an average of 1 box/3 grades, drain adds 1 box/2 Force.
I wonder if Street Magic will address that with Drain Foci, or if you get to use Power Foci to add dice to your drain resist pool? * So far here i've seen Magic + Cha/Log given for resisting conjuring drain, and Will + Cha/Log given for resisting casting drain. Are they suppose to be different, and for casting double weight the Will attribute (but ultimately give smaller drain resist pools for Initiates) since the Stun monitor max is based on Will? |
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Aug 23 2005, 12:39 AM
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#67
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Has anyone mentioned that summoning drain is based on twice the hits the spirit gets, minimum 2?
Binding drain value is twice the number of hits the spirit got on the binding test which used 2* the spirits Force, again minimum 2DV. |
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Aug 23 2005, 12:54 AM
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#68
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I saw the Force and Force x2 for dice pools, but I don't remember being told it was 2 boxes/hit. A Force 6 spirit is going to -average- 4 boxes summoning and 8 boxes binding. Not the worst, but binding is going to smart a bit. A Magic (6), Cha/Log (6) mage is going to avoid summoning drain a little better than 1/2 the time but he is nearly guaranteed to suffer drain binding without extra help there. I guess it also means that there won't be a huge drain difference summoning anything from around Force 4 and down, unless they get a really good roll. When does the drain switch from Stun to Physical? What did they end up setting for the limits on unbound and bound spirits you can maintain at any given time? Can spirits use their Edge to Oppose summoning/binding if the GM judges the spirit to have a particularly strong motivation for disliking the conjurer? |
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Aug 23 2005, 01:20 AM
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#69
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
Well, remember, Binding is a ritual, and it takes a while anyways. It's the same as what Mages did with Elementals in SR3. Generally, unless you're risking physical drain, you're doing this in downtime anyways. The only real risk is possibly losing control of it. But shouldn't be an issue if you play it smart
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Aug 23 2005, 01:23 AM
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#70
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Damn, I can't say anything right.
It is based on hits, resulting from 2*F for summoning. |
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Aug 23 2005, 01:27 AM
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#71
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
So summoning drain and binding drain are the same? EDIT: Or summoning drain is based on the F*2 opposing dice pool roll with 1 box/hit? That is still the same average damage of 4 boxes for a Force 6 spirit, but a lot more room for variance. |
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Aug 23 2005, 01:50 AM
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#72
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Target Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 22-August 05 Member No.: 7,588 |
So Bull any word on that when you up ypur Magic attribute after putting in some cyber is the Karma based of your current attribute or your "real one" question ?
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Aug 23 2005, 02:03 AM
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#73
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
It doesn't really specify it, but it does say you spend karma to raise the "Natural" attribute, which I read to mean your original, unmodified attribute.
I could be wrong, but i'd say use the "Pre-Essence Loss" attribute for calculating karma costs. Bull |
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Aug 23 2005, 02:07 AM
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#74
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
"Turn to Goo" is back...that was one of my favourite spells.-
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Aug 23 2005, 02:27 AM
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#75
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
Since Magic attribute is now purchased like other attributes during character creation, how do starting adepts go about getting their initial powers? In comparison to SR3, Do they cost more? Less? The same?
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