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> Shadowrun 4: Combat & Gear
Bull
post Aug 22 2005, 03:12 AM
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Feel free to ask questions, I and the others familiar with SR4 will try and answer questions when we can, and try to keep the thread on topic. :)
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will_rj
post Aug 22 2005, 03:39 AM
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What exactly is an initiative pass in SR4 ?
If one has, for example, 2 passes, does he/she always acts twice in a given round ? How does wounds affect initiative, if they do ?

Will
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Bull
post Aug 22 2005, 04:09 AM
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Characters no longer have a semi-random number of actions per turn, as they have in previous editions. Now they always have a flat number of actions (or Initiative Passes), which is 1 plus extras granted by cyber/bio/magic/gear/whatever.

You roll dice equal to your Initiative Derived Attribute, and add the number of hits to your Initiative Derived Attribute, modified by wound modifiers. this determines the initiative order. Everyone goes once, then those with second, third, and fourth actions go in successive passes.

Bull
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Homme-qui-rigole
post Aug 22 2005, 04:10 AM
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Ok. Here's a question;

How work Gear acquisition/Availability/Legality rating?

(Ok, actually it's look more like three questions.... :D )
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Bull
post Aug 22 2005, 04:30 AM
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QUOTE (Smed)

QUOTE (NeoJudas @ Aug 21 2005, 05:31 P/M)
As for Smed's questions ... I haven't made it that far into the books, but I do know that Rob is of the opinion that there will *NOT* be a Vehicle B/R system like Rigger-2/Rigger-3 had.

That's unfortunate. One of the things I liked best about playing a Rigger was tinkering with vehicles and drones. Taking a stock drone or cheap car and modifying the hell out of it was fun.

If Rob is opposed to giving design and customization rules for Vehicles, I wonder how he feels about design rules for other areas, like Spell Design?


The Fanpro seminar was taped. Adam may have more details about that later, assuming he survived GC.

However, what Rob said is that there will not be full vehicle cration rules. There will likely be rules for upgrading vehicles in Arsenal, which is the working title for the Gear book. My guess is that this would be simimlar to what was in the original Rigger Black Book, except, you know, actually make sense and work :)

Bull
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Babel
post Aug 22 2005, 04:40 AM
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Is it me or does EX Explosive now trump APDS. APDS gives -5 AP, Ex Explosive gives +2 DV, -2 AP.

Assume for the moment you are shooting someone with an Ares Predator IV doing 5P DV with -1 AP. You get 1 net success and your target has a body of 4 and is wearing a lined coat with 6 ballistic armor.

Using APDS your DV is 6 with a total AP of -6 which negates their armor. They roll 4 body dice and get an average of 1-2 hits which lowers the damage to 4-5.

Using EX Explosive your DV is 8 with a total AP of -3. They roll 4 body dice + 3 armor dice and get 2-3 hits which lowers the damage to 5-6.

Under the same scenario with the target wearing an Armor Jacket with 8 ballistic APDS yields an average of 4 damage while EX Explosive would yield an average of 5 damage.
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Bull
post Aug 22 2005, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE (Homme-qui-rigole)
Ok. Here's a question;

How work Gear acquisition/Availability/Legality rating?

(Ok, actually it's look more like three questions.... :D )

Legality: There are three "Ratings" for Legality. Legal, Restricted, and Forbidden. Restricted means you can only own it under certain circumstances, often something like a Permit. Forbidden means that private citizens are never allowed to legally own or possess the item, under any circumstances.

Availability: Acquiring anything with an availability rating is now generally an Extended Test using Charisma + Negotiation. The Availability of the item is the Threshold, and the Interval is based on how expensive the item is, and can be anywhere from 12 hours to 1 week. You can buyy extra dice for the Extended Test by spending extra nuyen on the item.

Bull
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Bandwidthoracle
post Aug 22 2005, 04:42 AM
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Is bio avalible at creation?
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Bull
post Aug 22 2005, 04:43 AM
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QUOTE (Babel)
Is it me or does EX Explosive now trump APDS. APDS gives -5 AP, Ex Explosive gives +2 DV, -2 AP.

Assume for the moment you are shooting someone with an Ares Predator IV doing 5P DV with -1 AP. You get 1 net success and your target has a body of 4 and is wearing a lined coat with 6 ballistic armor.

Using APDS your DV is 6 with a total AP of -6 which negates their armor. They roll 4 body dice and get an average of 1-2 hits which lowers the damage to 4-5.

Using EX Explosive your DV is 8 with a total AP of -3. They roll 4 body dice + 3 armor dice and get 2-3 hits which lowers the damage to 5-6.

Under the same scenario with the target wearing an Armor Jacket with 8 ballistic APDS yields an average of 4 damage while EX Explosive would yield an average of 5 damage.

To a certain degree, yes. But if you're trying to make sure you kill a target (or do physical damage), APDS is likely the better way to do since it will negate a large portion of the target's armor.

But overall, yes, it is better. It's also more expensive.

Bull
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Bull
post Aug 22 2005, 04:45 AM
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QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)
Is bio avalible at creation?

Yes. Bioware overlaps a little with higher grade cyberware in some areas now though, since they both cost essence.

Generally, Bio is more essence firendly, but a lot more expensive.

But there are still some things only Cyber can do. And only some things Bioware can do.

Bull
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Ellery
post Aug 22 2005, 05:42 AM
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Is there armor out there that is likely to convert EX ammo damage to stun? Seems as though you'd need armor ratings in the 8-10+ range for that to even be a possibility.

Also, since stun condition monitors are shorter than physical for trolls, wouldn't one want to do stun when facing an armored troll?
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Sabosect
post Aug 22 2005, 05:46 AM
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Is there any new bioware available? Or just the old stuff?
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Alvorn
post Aug 22 2005, 06:04 AM
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Can you explain Dodge further. Between the different posts else where it seems that you have Full Defesne ( always dodging ) and selecting to dodge at the time you are shot. Is this the case ? Whats the penalty for doing this ?
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mfb
post Aug 22 2005, 07:38 AM
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is there an AR mode that doesn't add TN mods to physical activities? or does the AR mod not apply to AR-assisted physical activities, such as shooting with a smartlink?
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hahnsoo
post Aug 22 2005, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE (Babel)
Is it me or does EX Explosive now trump APDS. APDS gives -5 AP, Ex Explosive gives +2 DV, -2 AP.

APDS actually gives -4 AP, while EX Explosive is as stated (+2 DV, -2 AP). EX Explosive is more expensive, and all explosive rounds have that nasty "explodes when you have a Critical Glitch" thing (which happens a lot more often now than before, given the fact that you only have to roll half or more 1s and no hits).
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Ellery
post Aug 22 2005, 09:25 AM
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Just to know whether glitching is important, it's useful to look at the frequencies:
CODE

               Dice    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12   13+
Crit. Glitch Chance   17% 22%  6%  7%  2%  3% .8%  1% .3% .4% .1% .2% <0.1%
 Reg. Glitch Chance    0% 11%  3%  9%  2%  7%  2%  5%  1%  3%  1%  2% <1.2%

Total Glitch Chance   17% 33%  8% 17%  5%  9%  3%  5%  2%  3%  1%  2% <1.2%

So if you get up to 5 dice or so, and you have edge to protect yourself, you may as well use EX. By the time you hit 7, you usually won't even need to worry about edge.

Edited to add "regular" and "total" glitch chances.
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mfb
post Aug 22 2005, 09:26 AM
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it increases a full percent from 5 to 6?
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Ellery
post Aug 22 2005, 09:55 AM
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It changes 0.7% (2.06% to 2.74%). I'm assuming you need at least half 1s. The table changes if you need half, round down in order to critical-glitch.
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hobgoblin
post Aug 22 2005, 10:04 AM
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so the diff between a normal glitch and a critical glitch is the existance of any hits in the test?

get non and you have a critical on your hands, while get atleast 1 and you "only" have a normal one?
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hahnsoo
post Aug 22 2005, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
so the diff between a normal glitch and a critical glitch is the existance of any hits in the test?

get non and you have a critical on your hands, while get atleast 1 and you "only" have a normal one?

Correct.
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hahnsoo
post Aug 22 2005, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE (Sabosect)
Is there any new bioware available? Or just the old stuff?

The only new bioware that I see is the Skin Pocket (eww).
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hobgoblin
post Aug 22 2005, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (Sabosect @ Aug 22 2005, 12:46 AM)
Is there any new bioware available? Or just the old stuff?

The only new bioware that I see is the Skin Pocket (eww).

surge reruns anyone :silly:

still, its a old classic. cp2020 had them so why not?
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hahnsoo
post Aug 22 2005, 10:22 AM
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QUOTE (Homme-qui-rigole @ Aug 21 2005, 11:10 PM)
How work Gear acquisition/Availability/Legality rating?

Availability - Charisma + Negotiation (threshold = Availability, Interval Based on Table) Extended Test
Less than 100 nuyen - 12 hours
Less than 1000 nuyen - 1 day
Less than 10,000 nuyen - 2 days
Over 10,000 nuyen - 1 week

You can spend an additional 25% of the item's value to gain an additional die for the Availability test (maximum of 10, or a total of +250% cost for the item).

Legality - There are three levels: Legal, Restricted ( R ), and Forbidden ( F ). Restricted requires a Permit, Forbidden is always illegal. No other numbers involved.
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Ellery
post Aug 22 2005, 10:46 AM
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Since regular glitches could be important too, I added "regular glitch" (and total glitch) probabilities to my table above. It's kind of a weird progression.
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Darkness
post Aug 22 2005, 10:48 AM
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lol
So an odd number of dice is preferable, since the glitch probability is lower.

Strange things those glitches.
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