 Where are the SR4 hate threads? |
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 Sep 1 2005, 10:45 PM
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#76
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741  |
Aye, yes I have. And, trust me, exceptional stat doesn't do anything when you can have a starting character with an 11 in a stat. You see, some of us make it a point to at least attempt to memorize the racial maximums.
You mean you have missed the four threads in which this was covered? Four entire threads? Tell you what. You build a character with a stat above six, just for the hell of it, and play SR4. Then tell me how well it holds together. As it is, I'm not going to post 20+ pages of mathematics just to satisfy your whim.
Go here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=9694 My post is on the second page. Read it.
Yeah, I guess you are. Might want to check that. Start with the dozen or so topics already dealing with it.
Stat 7 + Skill 6 = 13 dice. Perfectly possible at chargen.
Actually, a cheat code would have you starting with 12+ dice. The best SR characters often had a dozen or more dice to throw. Hell, 20 dice is perfectly believable. And don't get me started on the godlike AIs.
You're kinda doing something wrong if that's all the dice you can get.
Congrats. You weren't casting powerful-enough spells. That's called "using some sense" for spellcasting.
It's interesting you say that now and don't bother checking the other threads. Or, for that matter, are apparently not bothering to read the title of this one. |
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Sep 1 2005, 10:46 PM
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#77
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,636 |
I saw a thread where 77 % said they would use 4th....and only a small% would kling to 3rd. Why would that be? Have they all been brainwashed?
Really, if you prefer 3rd, that;s fine. But don't think everyone else is a raving lunatic because they feel different. It is clear there are very different opinions of shadowrun 4th. That's fine. But now go and do something usefull with all that energy you put trying to put down 4th edition. Go write a great campaign for 3rd, wich uses all the different rules wich our group was too dumb to comprehend :) |
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Sep 1 2005, 10:46 PM
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#78
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
How about attributes being cheaper to buy and more useful than skill groups, post character-creation? How about attributes being as cheap to buy and more useful than skill groups during character creation? How about a character creation system that rewards people who start off with very low attributes and build up attributes over time rather than treating attributes more as fixed qualities and having skills built up? How about the fact that out of the 5 or 6 types of ammo given, half are statistically useless, despite descriptions to the contrary? How about being able to create a balanced character at creation time that, as a bonus, can roll 4x more dice for a test than average? How about that range makes almost no difference to firearms performance? Etc. etc. etc.. |
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Sep 1 2005, 10:49 PM
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#79
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Just talking about streamlining:
Combat is about the same (as far as dice rolled, damage taken, boxes filled), although it is much easier to count hits against a fixed TN than a floating TN that you have to calculate every single action (SR3 feels just like Battletech at times... when we play Battletech, my group looks to me for TNs because I have all of the charts and such memorized). The Matrix rules, though, are much much simpler. Simple things like shutting down cameras and retrieving paydata that used to take 4 or so odd rolls per task under the old VR 2.0 rules now only take 1 roll, 2 at the most. Even Cybercombat is better. It's much easier to add the "tech" into a typical Shadowrun without doing a separate 2nd run for the decker. |
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Sep 1 2005, 10:56 PM
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#80
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Dear gods, did someone pour a large dose of "illiterate" into the water or something? Marc, quick question: Did you bother to read the title of the thread, or are you just clicking around at random? Or did you think a topic titled "Where are the SR4 hate threads?" would magically be full of people praising SR4 and completely lacking any complaints at all? And, yes, I am one of those people who voted that they would use SR4. I've even stated it on here. But that doesn't mean I am completely happy with the system, that it doesn't need more fixes than the insides of a guy who decided to do the chacha with a claymore, or that I don't see room for hundreds of areas of improvements. What is means is that I am willing to play a specialized, nonadaptive system and use it for the purposes intended. |
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Sep 1 2005, 11:01 PM
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#81
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,317 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
Not that I can't understand some of your arguments, but ...
*hmm* 6*1.5 (rounded down) = 9 7*1.5 (rounded down) = 10 ... I guess something went wrong while memorizing ;)
That seems to depend on perspective. There are more than enough possibilities in SR3 to cast very high powered spells, kill anyone in sight and walk away with zero drain ... Starts with using odd force numbers, continues with proper use of fetish-based or exclusive spells, turns "right" with "overkill via success" and finally ends with a trauma damper ... |
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Sep 1 2005, 11:05 PM
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#82
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Ahh! Thank you for reminding me of what really grates on me about 4th edition. Yes. This. This is my King #1 Beef. I want to grab Fanpro, shake them, and shout, "Did you never play Legend of the 5 Rings 1st and 2nd Edition!?!?" Because 1st had this problem, leading to Supermen with average skills. They overcompensated for it in 2nd by changing to roll skill keep stat, which meant that grizzled veteran samurai might be able to hit an average target number if they were lucky. And in 3rd edition, they finally managed to balance it. It's like, "Yo! Fanpro... AEG did all the work for you, 6 months ago. You're lagging." |
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Sep 1 2005, 11:13 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
SR3 core rules, page 245, table titled Racial Attribute Limit Table:
The stats are in this order: Body, Quickness, Strength, Charisma, Intelligence, Willpower. To quote a really bad movie: This is the point where you fall down.
A trauma damper is not what I consider as technically getting around drain. The damage is done whether you notice it or not. Not suffering drain is never having to worry about the damage. |
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Sep 2 2005, 03:33 AM
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#84
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Yeah. Especially since your perspective and opinions are the only ones that matter to all of us. You know, them being 100% correct and immutable and all. And seeing as how none of us have acquired the legal rights to use them, maybe you're the only person that should post on the boards? Just trying to be helpful. :please: |
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Sep 2 2005, 05:43 AM
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#85
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
Ok. You're right. Sex is such an unnatural and disgusting thing. It shouldn't be mentioned anywhere. At least it shouldn't be done by anyone. No, seriously: The world of Shadowrun is full of violence, drugs, weapons, apocalyptic nazi cultist wielding magical weapons of mass destruction, racism, spells made to turn people into a gooey substance, human sacrifice and so on. You will find all this in the core rulebook. The world of 2070 is no kindergarten. Sex is the single one most natural things in the world. So you think, that sex is 'worse' than violence? Sounds a little bit schizophrenic to me. ;) |
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Sep 2 2005, 05:56 AM
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#86
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
Although from a pure marketing perspective in the U.S., it's possibly not the smartest move--or it may be an advantage. These things can be hard to judge. It's not the safest thing to do from a purely marketing perspective.
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Sep 2 2005, 06:05 AM
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#87
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 12-April 04 From: Lacey, Washington Member No.: 6,237 |
Ellery, if they wanted a safe investment they wouldn't be making PnP RPGs at all. :)
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Sep 2 2005, 06:10 AM
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#88
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you know what? bite me. look at the goddamn thread title, moron: nobody was bitching about how SR4 sucked until some idiot decided "hey, let's pick on the guys who don't like SR4". why don't you dickheads leave us alone, instead of telling SR4-haters to keep quiet on a thread about why SR4-haters are so quiet. |
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Sep 2 2005, 06:48 AM
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#89
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
^
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: Indeed. |
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Sep 2 2005, 06:50 AM
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#90
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Eidolon, your post reminds me of the buzzsaw room in the final level of Shinobi 1 for Game Gear.
~J |
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Sep 2 2005, 06:52 AM
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#91
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Hey, don't call me an idiot! :S |
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Sep 2 2005, 06:53 AM
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#92
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Damn! Mfb rolled 30 6's for his Use Clue Bat skill. And that's before the rerolls and against a TN of 2.
Edit: Grinder, if the shoe fits... Edit2: If it doesn't fit, then consider it to be a side effect of annoyance. Mfb only said what a lot of us were thinking. |
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Sep 2 2005, 07:00 AM
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#93
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
We have a saying in german: "gleich und gleich gesellt sich gern".
Maybe i have to convert to the SR4 haters army. |
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Sep 2 2005, 07:02 AM
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#94
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Can you translate for those of us who can't be bothered to learn German or look it up in a translater? Otherwise, your next sentence could refer to a lot of things.
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Sep 2 2005, 07:11 AM
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#95
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Oh, sorry. Roughly translated it's "people with equal attitude like to hang out together".
(it was referred to the "idiot") Very roughly. Hope it does make sense somehow. :) |
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Sep 2 2005, 07:25 AM
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#96
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
To keep from being associated with Marc, the idiot who is basically going around and trying to stir up shit? Yeah, you would have to convert to the haters side.
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Sep 2 2005, 07:29 AM
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#97
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Exactly. :)
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Sep 2 2005, 08:36 AM
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#98
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,636 |
Uhm, thanks... MY God the guy who has a sig that says somethign like " Dumshock forum, the anal retentives that fun forgot " or something really is right. I've been to many fora in my life, but none so negative and rude as this. I am a regular at several fora, and man is the attitude differnt. A shame, goes Shadowrun is a great game, and deserves a good community. I never did stir up shit. I was trying, in a language not my native one, to ask why you not only bitch about the game, but also were, and still are, very negative about the PLAYERS who like it. It was that that i was agitating about, not your bitching in general. Liking SR 4 does not make me: an idiot, a moron or a dickhead ( just a few quotes ), nor does not agreeing with you guys make me any of those. Really, your name calling, insulting and fit throwing reminds me of my 5 year old niece, she also communicate like that when someone doesn't agree. Try to keep it clear of personal stuff. Oh well, Now that i have tasted your great, welcomming attitude myself, I probably will stay clear of posting here again. You guys really should try to take a look at some of the other fora out there, and see how fan communities can work. Too bad, again, SR4 looks like a great game, and deserves great fans. |
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Sep 2 2005, 08:59 AM
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#99
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
If you look closely, you'll notice that the tension goes both ways--there are plenty of attacks by people who like SR4 on those who don't as well. It's a natural reaction to a divisive product. Large changes are almost always divisive unless the resulting product is clearly better than the original in all ways that are different.
It just goes with the territory. In six months it'll be more in line with other fora, I expect. |
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Sep 2 2005, 09:01 AM
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#100
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
I only accused you of illiteracy, idiocy, and stirring up shit. You might want to read what MFB said. Here, let me quote it for you:
You might want to go back a few posts and read everything that is said.
Actually, if you don't come across as a fragging moron and can dodge the flame wars, this place is pretty nice. Look, kid, we're not going to coddle you, we're not going to protect you from your own actions. However, in most cases, we can be nice to you. I've actually admitted I'm wrong on several occasions, which I think helps in my case.
Your post:
Examining the context of your post, nothing about it suggests that your statement it true without your statement requiring ignorance or misconception on your part, something that with your skill of using the English language I do not consider excuseable, especially when all it requires is you read a few posts. Missing those posts and the important context is an example of actions taken by those who are newbies to using this style of communication, which does bring into question your claim you are a regular of several forums. If you follow my post, you see I was replying to what someone said. Going back to the post I replied you, you see the person in question was replying to something I said. Going back one more step, you find my post, which follows:
And, to be honest, there you have it: I was being negative about the system, not the people who play it. Oh, and if you bothered to check more of my posts, you would find out that in spite of my complaints I plan on playing it anyway as I see a use for it. You see, not everyone who complains about SR4 actually hates it.
No, but your, as mfb put it, "telling SR4-haters to keep quiet on a thread about why SR4-haters are so quiet" does. Remember: Topic titles do have some relevance to the discussion at hand. Really, after awhile of putting up with that bullshit, it gets tiring.
If you think we're hostile, you really are a newbie to forums. Trust me, kid, we've been downright civil. Try the GameFAQs forums, or maybe the DnD forums. Then, after you've been spanked by them a few times, come back and tell us how hostile we are. Hell, for a gaming forum, we're fucking saints.
SR4 has them. Some of them are man enough to admit the game they play has flaws and to point them out. I'm one of them. I'm just annoyed enough with you that I decided to bare hands. |
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