 New Orleans = Chicago |
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 Sep 2 2005, 02:15 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 2-July 05 Member No.: 7,481  |
Has anyone looked at the situation in the Big Easy and thought about the parallels it has to SR Chicago's bug infestation? People are dying in the streets. There is no authority. Looting is rampant. No food, no water. No way out. They created two major shelters that they told people to go to. The SuperDome and the Convention Center. They have left the people at the Convention Center to die. They have no resources to give them. They can't even get buses there to move them somewhere else.
This shit is so crazy. |
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Sep 2 2005, 02:21 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
All we need to learn now is that some organization within New Orleans is really terrorist, the government said nothing, and the flooding problems resulted from cleanup failures.
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Sep 2 2005, 02:26 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 15-June 04 From: Richmond, BC Member No.: 6,405 |
I just found this while surfing the Intertron. It's the online journal of a guy still inside New Orleans. Some of the stuff in there is amazing: for example, one police officer didn't even know they were under martial law until he was told by the author. They had to commandeer moving trucks for transport because their entire precinct is under water.
And yes, it is very reminiscent of Bug City. |
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Sep 2 2005, 02:43 AM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,677 Joined: 5-June 03 Member No.: 4,689 |
They aren't under martial law. They are under a state of emergency, which is fairly powerful in and of itself. It is possible to send in both Guard and other branches of the armed forces outside of martial law, and the state and federal governments are carefully avoiding declaring it.
Martial law was reported by New Orleans CBS affiliate WWL-TV on Tuesday, 11:52 AM (ET), and the rumour spread quickly and was even picked up by the mayor of New Orleans. Since then, several authorities have been trying to counter the rumour, such as the Secretary of Homeland Security and Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum ("This is not martial law"). Of course, given Louisiana state law, the distinction may be mostly a semantic one. |
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Sep 2 2005, 03:38 AM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 2-July 05 Member No.: 7,481 |
It sounds like they need martial law though. If the reports of violence are true then they need to get in there.
Watching the tv tonight showing scenes of people converging on the Superdome in an attempt to board far to few buses bound for the outside reminded me of scenes from the SR novel Burning Bright. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:54 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hurricane_katri...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
It's worse. From that, I gather people have a very good reason to take it upon themselves. By all appearances, the people supposed to help are the last people you should rely on in most cases. |
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Sep 2 2005, 05:04 AM
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#7
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Sabosect:
Quoth the Server, "404!" |
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Sep 2 2005, 05:12 AM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Meh, the big thing about New Orleans is that there were a lot of urban poor and desperate people *before* the disaster. When authority and social structure breaks down, people who are really desperate and who feel like society's been out to get them start acting out by shooting at aid workers and whatnot.
I studied public health for 1 year in New Orleans, and I actually just got out a few weeks before Katrina. That's my perspective on the situation there. |
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Sep 2 2005, 05:29 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Actually, going by what I have read, all of the shooting at relief workers has been a case of people desperate to get relief after being passed up several times. You can only watch so many choppers fly by while you are stuck on the roof of your house before you go a little nuts. Add in a lack of food, water, and sanitation to that.
Oh, and from the blog, I gather that mostly these people going hostile are reacting to hostile attitudes towards them from cops first, then the relief workers, and finally the military. All in all, right now I would say the most qualified people to deal with this are not the ones dealing with it. In other words, I think it's time we got the Americans out and asked another nation or the International Red Cross for help. I normally prefer not to speak ill of our relief efforts, but in this case I can find examples of third world dictators that look better in comparison. As for the link: http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/hurricanes_...tropical_storms It's the New Orleans story titled New Orleans in Anarchy With Fights, Rapes |
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Sep 2 2005, 05:42 AM
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#10
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not a chance. In my opinion the situation in New Orleans has a much faster onset and is much, much less serious. ~J |
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Sep 2 2005, 05:58 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 7-December 04 Member No.: 6,873 |
I wish I was there, to form the Neo-@'s.
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Sep 2 2005, 03:37 PM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 16-August 05 Member No.: 7,558 |
Yeah lets ask the Germans, British, and French to stage a big rescue operation in New Orleans. That will do it. :eek: That has got to be one of the ill thought through and asinine suggestions that I have ever heard of. I agree that there should have been a better plan and resources in place in case something like this happened. But to say that the people who are trying to help out are the problem is crazy. |
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Sep 2 2005, 03:39 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 7-December 04 Member No.: 6,873 |
Ordered to stay in the city at gunpoint? Yeah, I would say our "relief effort" is a pretty damn big problem. |
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Sep 2 2005, 03:46 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 133 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 7,548 |
This is what would be generously called a high-threat area. The military is not your friend. The police are not your friend. The relief teams are not your friend. They are there to keep order and do what they can for the populace at large. If you're hiding out on a rooftop and there are three of you, whereas there are thousands in X location--guess what? You're getting passed over. It's the tragedy of statistics, folks.
If you start shooting at them, you are no longer a "trapped civilian." You are a lawbreaker and an enemy. Is that harsh? Yeah, it is. Is it unreasonable? No, I don't think so. |
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Sep 2 2005, 03:50 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 7-December 04 Member No.: 6,873 |
Thousands trapped in the city center? (I think) waiting for buses that never came? Dying of dehydration and starvation...
I love how we are helping everyone. IMHO I think they should just let everyone out of the city, atleast. Construct a tent-camp or something, but my blood froths when I hear about people being locked in that hell-hole by their helpers. It completely shatters my illusion that the government, while not idyllic, is not out to get me/us/them/they. |
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Sep 2 2005, 03:57 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 133 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 7,548 |
There's nowhere to put all of them, Supercilious. Right now the safest thing for the maximum number of people is to lock the city down. Yeah, it really and truly sucks for the people who are in there. But where are they going to go outside the city? How many are going to sit in a tent camp where there's still not going to be enough supplies? How many are going to leave said tent camp and try to "find things" outside?
We'll move looters from inside to outside. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:03 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 1-October 03 Member No.: 5,668 |
Greater good or not, there is something terribly wrong about locking people in where many of them have or will die.
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Sep 2 2005, 04:06 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 133 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 7,548 |
We use medical triage, don't we?
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Sep 2 2005, 04:08 PM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Actually, Blacken, that's not true. There is much less damage once you go further inland, and at this point, locking down the city and setting up an organized refugee exodus to a guarded camp is the best way to do it. It's not pleasant, it's expensive as hell, and people don't want to talk about it, but the entire area is too much of a mess right now to attempt to rebuild and maintain order while people are present and starving. When society forgets and oppresses you and the breaks down, you can only be so hungry and lost before everything explodes. This is what we are seeing now. It will only get worse. I'm honestly tempted to get a gun and a camera and drive down there for a month to watch people do terrible things to eachother. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:10 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 133 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 7,548 |
You can't make an "organized refugee exodus" for numbers in the five- and six-digit range, Arethusa. Not easily, not effectively, and not in such a way as to complete the objective.
They stay in and they prey on the unfortunates inside the city. They get out and they prey on everyone around. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:16 PM
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#21
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
It's happened in other countries before, and we can do it now for less than what Iraq is costing us. More than the monetary and logistical demands— which are great, but mot definitely not insurmountable— I find most are simply unwilling to accept the concept of an American refugee.
Moreover, I don't think you understand that you cannot draw a clear line between 'them' and 'us'. The people looting and killing eachother aren't much different from the people being looted and killed. But if you really want to draw lines, be more accurate about it: poor people are attacking rich people. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:19 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 133 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 7,548 |
Rapists are poor people attacking rich people?
And I'm generalizing with "them" and "us." Of course I am. I realize that. But in a situation like this it's rather hard to cogently discuss a topic without some degree of labeling, if for convenience's sake alone. And don't try to bring up Iraq, please. Let's not start a real flamewar here. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:21 PM
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#23
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
THat is the biggest cop out I've ever heard. No one in New Orleans has any realitives anywhere else in the US? Right. Let them call Uncle Bob in Bumfuck, North Dakota and stay with him. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:24 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 133 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 7,548 |
How many are poor folks who are limited in scope to New Orleans? Quite a damned few. Because--and yeah, this sounds real bad, but it needs to be said--the rich (and yes, predominantly white) folks got out while they could. Most probably went to their relatives or wherever else they could. I'd bet a lot of money that a plurality, if not a majority, would not be able to find relatives to stay with outside the immediate vicinity. |
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Sep 2 2005, 04:29 PM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
2 minute penalty: little straw men. The crime being committed in general in teh area is the reult of poor people society forgot. When we took away what little stability and future we had given them, this sort of collapse is inevitable. Rape, looting, mugging, robbery, doesn't matter. It is not an excuse. It is an explanation of injustice. And labels are convenient; just try and pay attention to when they get in the way of actually understanding the problem. Iraq is pertinent: we have the money and the resources, or at least the willingness to leap into budget deficit with our hands in the air. Our inaction or unwillingness, then, is the result of something else.
Unfortunately, this is absolutely true. The majority of people who stayed didn't stay because they're stupid. They stayed because they couldn't do anything else. |
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