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> SoA-chapter reviews, let's start sopme threads gang!
Snow_Fox
post Sep 3 2005, 04:16 PM
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Ok, we've got SoA, or at least some of have. We've read it, oir parts. there are a few threads out htere but lets get on the stick gnag and start carving it up.

I've got the middle east going. let's start different threads on the chapters and toss around the good, the bad and the what the heck.
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JongWK
post Sep 3 2005, 11:31 PM
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*cue spaghetti western music*

Good idea. Looking forward to them.
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 4 2005, 03:12 AM
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I just got it today, about 5 hours ago. Of course, one of the problems with having a wife that's in to the game... I haven't even touched it yet. She's bribing me off with karma. I hate being a karma whore.
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KosherPickle
post Sep 4 2005, 03:31 AM
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Part of me wants to write some reviews on Shadows of Asia. Part of me wants to finish my review of Shadows of Europe. And part of me wants to read my textbooks for classes. I'm totally torn. :frown:
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 4 2005, 03:35 AM
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try NERPS, or NoDoze if you please, and do them all! slacker
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Synner
post Sep 4 2005, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (KosherPickle @ Sep 4 2005, 03:31 AM)
Part of me wants to write some reviews on Shadows of Asia.  Part of me wants to finish my review of Shadows of Europe.  And part of me wants to read my textbooks for classes.

Well, parts of me want to see those Shadows of Asia reviews and parts of me want to see the rest of the Shadows of Europe reviews. Forget the textbooks. Get your priorities straight, man. ;)
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Snow_Fox
post Sep 4 2005, 03:22 PM
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I'm doing the best I can but a girl can only read and type so much with out looking like a corporate shill.
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KosherPickle
post Sep 5 2005, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (KosherPickle @ Sep 4 2005, 03:31 AM)
Part of me wants to write some reviews on Shadows of Asia.  Part of me wants to finish my review of Shadows of Europe.  And part of me wants to read my textbooks for classes.

Well, parts of me want to see those Shadows of Asia reviews and parts of me want to see the rest of the Shadows of Europe reviews. Forget the textbooks. Get your priorities straight, man. ;)

This is also Rush week for our Fraternity. I am without time to do anything that isn't half-assed. :sleepy:
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Synner
post Sep 13 2005, 03:08 PM
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*bump*
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mfb
post Sep 13 2005, 04:28 PM
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korea is really neat. i like how the effects of japanese imperialism was handled--very cynical, very twisted, and very, very believable. it's weird how much the korea chapter matches a partial writeup i'd done back when SoA was first announced; i even had an idea similar to the spirit villages, though mine involved Gyeongbokgung 'growing' back to its original (pre-ww2) size. i'm very pleased with how well-researched the chapter is; there are a number of details which makes it feel... authentic, i guess the word is. a lot of stuff that'd be hard to get from just reading about korea on the intarwebs.

i'll review it a bit more thoroughly later on, after rereading the chapter; there are some things i think were missing, but which are forgivable given wordcount constraints. overall, though, korea was really good.
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hahnsoo
post Sep 13 2005, 06:29 PM
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I especially like the entry about Chejudo island (I've always thought that place was kinda creepy). And if anything, Koreans are even MORE addicted to computers and the Internet than reported. Everyone that my mom knows in Korea (relatives, friends, etc.) spend at least 4 hours a day on the thing. My parents spend at least 8 hours a day, I think, but they're also both retired. :-P The only thing that I would dispute is the whole Christianity bit... Christians (especially the Korean Presbyterian Church) are a fanatic and entrenched segment of the Korean population, and at the very least, they'd be like the Mormons or Southern Baptists, a strong minority voice. I know it's fun to throw the mystic bits around based on indigenous cultures and such, but I find it hard to believe that super-churches like the one my grandfather used to go to (over 30,000 members... the church was like a stadium) would just evaporate. The bit about Moonies being an insect spirit cult got a chuckle from me. I wonder how that all turned out, considering how much money and influence the Unification Church has.
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 14 2005, 06:39 AM
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one of my biggest wonders in Yuri, the ork head-man of Yamatetsu, and how that turns out in 4th edition. He has this dandy accelerated aging disease. Anyone know how long he lasts? Did he make it to 2070?

I really liked all the different plot threads that get dropped in to the locations for one. Like in Yakut. Before it was just "wow, this place is weird". Now it's "wow, lots happening here! Let's go!"

I'me putting together a page of interesting magical sites I'd like my shaman to visit on his "whirlwing tour of the worlds magical wonders". I was planning on doing this with SoE and T:AL and SoNA, but SoA was a whole friggin page already!

I would have liked some more details in some areas, but I know that's hard with so much to go over. Especially with Japan. I remember thinking "Turkestan!? Who the hell cares, give me more about ****". But I actaully really enjoyed Turkestan. Go figire. I think they ddid a good job of finding something with each.

Wondering what happens to Ibn Eisa after he's ousted.

Mostly, I wish that this could have been two books. Or that they could include everything they edited onto a pdf. THAT would be cool, as there would be no space restirctions. Spec Edt maybe? Holostreets maybe? But I appreciated all of the plot threads.

My main interest is with the thread about the Golden Triangle scattered throughout a few places in the book.
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Synner
post Sep 14 2005, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Wondering what happens to Ibn Eisa after he's ousted.

Mostly, I wish that this could have been two books. Or that they could include everything they edited onto a pdf. THAT would be cool, as there would be no space restirctions. Spec Edt maybe? Holostreets maybe? But I appreciated all of the plot threads.

My main interest is with the thread about the Golden Triangle scattered throughout a few places in the book.

That particular thread continues into System Failure.

As for all the missing stuff, I know I cut more than 2000 words from my India draft (I had sooooo much more on Bollywood, the Axis, the Sikhs, Jains, the neo-communist unions and chakraware it's not even funny), I suspect my fellow writers had similar problems. Whether that material will see the light of day is still unknown. Some of it will filter into my future stuff (assuming I get to write future stuff), other might be posted for free, and other yet might find a place on Holostreets depending on how that works out.
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Hasagwan
post Sep 15 2005, 01:16 PM
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Heh, I've enjoyed most of the book. Over all it's well thought out though like others I wish it'd've been split into two books. I'll just make some quick comments on some of the chapters.

China: Overall I think this is my favorite section. The end result is rather a rather nice mix with nothing too out there. And I am so glad they mapped it out like they did. You truly do need a scorecard for that area.

India: Of all the areas to be presented, this has got to be my favorite flavor wise. Very colorful and the color of the people was brought out pretty well. I'd love to send my players there, but I think they'd lynch me for my pure evil thoughts of what I'd do to them.

Russia: Another good section and well written. I think the Yakut one is grand just because the awakened nation finally gets itself into trouble.

Japan: Okay, this is where I've got a problem. I'm sure most of you have seen Lost in Translation. Most foriegners love it. The Japanese hate it because of how it doesn't show anything but on the surface and the fringe groups. I agree with the Japanese. The Japan section comes across as Shadowrun: Lost in Translation.

SE Asia: For the most part this looks good. The blurb on Thailand was a shocker and I applaud the author for realizing the importance of the King in Thailand. I do wish that the cities would have been put after the nations or with them as before is confusing.

Middle East: All I can say is, about damn time!

Others: Okay this is wide. Korea is okay, but it suffers from some lost in translation stuff (not as badly though). Oceana was nice to see included. Turkestan is a bit of a hard pill to swallow given that regions unique problems and area being talked about and I wish it could have been given more detail.

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Synner
post Sep 15 2005, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE (Hasagwan @ Sep 15 2005, 01:16 PM)
India: Of all the areas to be presented, this has got to be my favorite flavor wise. Very colorful and the color of the people was brought out pretty well. I'd love to send my players there, but I think they'd lynch me for my pure evil thoughts of what I'd do to them.

That's a great complement. Thanks.

To be honest I was going for flavor over plot (although I got plenty of that in too) because I think the subcontinent is all about it's unique mix of atmosphere, culture and religion. What Jay did with Tibet fit right in too.

I also wanted to play up the potential the Sixth World adds both in terms of staples of 2060's culture (cyberware, crime, etc) and the history (the parallels between Aryan-Indus culture and the Celts and hence the legacies of ED, not to mention the Wheels).

Good to see people liked it.
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Snow_Fox
post Sep 15 2005, 10:43 PM
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flavbor is better than plot hooks. If you have any imagination at all things for plot hooks should jump out but flavor, that is what is needed in an SB
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FiveVenoms
post Sep 15 2005, 11:16 PM
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I was primarily concerned with the SouthEast Asia section, and my immense condolences to the writers who had to work on that section. Squeezing such a huge number of countries into one of the smallest sections of the book must have been a little annoying. I'm curious as to how they decided which 'countries' got their own chapters and which got put in Regional sections.

Still, I did like the fact that a lot of the cultural values and some mythology made it into the settings. I can only assume the writers either read up a lot, or live in the area (ie: Phi Daeng; The Red Ghost). Like the Naga Kingdom fits in with a lot of the Theravada Buddhist mythology in the region (Thailand, I'll confess, being my expertise), and like Hasagwan said, seeing the reference to the "new King of Thailand" made a lot of sense in regards to the impact that would have on people there.

One thing (re: the book as a whole) that I personally really wanted to see.....Some hidden superpower of magic and such in Asia that had nothing to do with either Elves or Dragons. Just given the cultural background of the various countries in Asia, I was vaguely hoping that there would be some non-Eurocentric "Bad Ass from an Ancient Time" holed up somewhere. Having seen firsthand some of the super-mystical, relatively ancient aspects of some (Southeast) Asian cultures, it seemed to me that there would be something stemming from that playing into the whole mystery mystical world of Shadowrun. Instead I got dragons. Which is nice and all, but we've had dragons for a long time, and this was by and large, the first time in about 13 or 15 years of Shadowrun I'd seen an in-depth look (or any look) at Asia. Ah well. I'm done now, carry on.
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Prospero
post Sep 16 2005, 01:19 AM
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There certainly are some bad-asses in Asia that don't have to do with dragons or IEs - look at Yakut. It's some kind of spirit, yeah, but one that uses shapeshifters to enforce it's will and hates metahumanity. And the Thai nagas and the Balinese spirits (and their opponents) are cool and unique. Plus Tibet - who's knows what's up there? For me, that was certainly enough.

In general, I really liked this book - maybe even more than SoE and SoNA, both of which I liked a lot. I knew I was going to really enjoy China and Japan (though China was the better of the two - Japan was nice, but felt a little... I dunno, generic, maybe. Maybe for reasons mentioned above, maybe because a lot of that territory had already been gone over in metaplot since the Ring of Fire plotline in YoTC.) Anyway, what I absolutely loved was all the unexpected areas that got covered - Oceania, Turkestan, Transcaucasia, Khalistan, the two Turkic (Turkish? whatever), nations some of the SE Asia bits. Maybe because they were so unexpected, they really caught me by surprise and I found myself really liking them. There's enough background it insert them easily into a campaign, but its still vague enough that a lot can be done with them. Cool stuff.

I also loved the whole Russia and Yakut thing. I was wondering what was up with Yakut and am glad it isn't just another Awakened nation on the Amazonia template - the shifters really give it its own feel.

And so many people have said they liked India so far that I almost feel I shouldn't bother. But I liked it a lot, too - I guess there, too, I just didn't know what to expect (except for small excerpts about Indian gangs way back in the London sourcebook and a blurb in the SSG). Really well done - cool, but not overblown. I liked the Ganges a lot - SURGE tidal waved. Neat! And the art was well done, too.

On a somewhat related note, once some more magic rules come out with Street Magic (providing they're good), I'm really looking forward to screwing around and making all kinds of cool local magical traditions coming from the Asia book.

Enough. I'm babbling.
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otaku mike
post Sep 16 2005, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (Hasagwan)
SE Asia: For the most part this looks good. The blurb on Thailand was a shocker and I applaud the author for realizing the importance of the King in Thailand. I do wish that the cities would have been put after the nations or with them as before is confusing.


Thank you very much. I was starting to think people glazed over SEAasia because of the lack of comments.
For your information, I did write the section on the cities to be placed after the section on the nations, but they got swapped during edition. For Indochina, if you just read the section on the cities last, it should be a lot less confusing.

QUOTE (FiveVenoms)
I was primarily concerned with the SouthEast Asia section, and my immense condolences to the writers who had to work on that section. Squeezing such a huge number of countries into one of the smallest sections of the book must have been a little annoying. I'm curious as to how they decided which 'countries' got their own chapters and which got put in Regional sections.


I'm not sure myself about what motivated this decision. The very first concern, I guess, is that you can't end up with a 400 pages book. Some sections had to be shorter. With a finite number of pages, I suppose Rob thought there wasn't enough things previously going on in Indochina and Indonesia (with them being just out of decades of war) to justify taking pages from other sections.
Anyway, I was supposed to write about 5000 words for Indochina, and in the end I submitted more like 8000... I could have developed more stuff with more room, but even if the style makes the chapter a bit hacked, I'm still happy with the final result. I believe it managed to convey some of the local flavor, and that was the first priority I assigned myself when writing Indochina.

QUOTE (FiveVenoms)
Still, I did like the fact that a lot of the cultural values and some mythology made it into the settings. I can only assume the writers either read up a lot, or live in the area (ie: Phi Daeng; The Red Ghost). Like the Naga Kingdom fits in with a lot of the Theravada Buddhist mythology in the region (Thailand, I'll confess, being my expertise), and like Hasagwan said, seeing the reference to the "new King of Thailand" made a lot of sense in regards to the impact that would have on people there.


Again, thanks a lot. It's very much appreciated.
For the record, I live in Thailand since 3 years. My wife is Thai. I guess I don't have much merit for knowing this stuff, though I did do a lot of research too.
I hope you'll excuse the minor inconsistency about the name of the Thai king. I couldn't (my wife wouldn't let me) write about the death, even a fictional one, of the current king of Thailand, King Rama 9. So I had to leave a hole in the line of succession and directly jump to Rama 12 and 13 to avoid being disrespectful of the royalty (that would have been a serious crime here).

QUOTE (FiveVenoms)
One thing (re: the book as a whole) that I personally really wanted to see.....Some hidden superpower of magic and such in Asia that had nothing to do with either Elves or Dragons. Just given the cultural background of the various countries in Asia, I was vaguely hoping that there would be some non-Eurocentric "Bad Ass from an Ancient Time" holed up somewhere.


Indeed, as Prospero pointed out, there are some non-IE, non-dragon powerful entities mentioned in the text. In Indochina for instance, the Naga Raja's name should ring a bell to people with knowledge of the local myths. Vasuki is the very first Naga king. Surely this is an ancient and powerful snake ;) Also, the Master Shedim operating in the Golden Triangle (Kalokdam, "the black skull") could certainly be considered to be dangerous. Finally, there are a lot of things not revealed about Niranam and his special connection to the garudas...

Mike
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 16 2005, 04:45 AM
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QUOTE (Synner)

That particular thread continues into System Failure.


Thanks, mock my non-book-having-pain.

"You mock my pain. Never do so again!"

QUOTE
other might be posted for free, and other yet might find a place on Holostreets depending on how that works out.


That would be awesome. Holostreets sounds like the perfect venue for that really. I'd hate to see all the work that was put in to these places lost simply because the book got to thick. That's a lot of good material lost.

Is there any reason that information could NOT be put up somewhere? Is it stil ltechnically Fanpro's property, although it was never published? How does that work? Would it just not count as canon if a writer decided to just post it for example, or would that be a legal no-no as well?

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FiveVenoms
post Sep 16 2005, 05:21 AM
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Otaku Mike: Ironic you should say that; my wife is also Thai, and if I were to ever mention something akin to the demise of King Bhumibol Adulyadej, she wouldn't talk to me for months. I can only assume you're to thank for the "Phi Daeng"/Naga etc., that really hit home for someone who is reasonably familiar with the culture of the area.

Prospero + (mainly)Otaku Mike: I will 100% give you credit for supporting the Yakut free spirit Vernya as "creepy only-Asia spiritual stuff", but (and this is ONLY my personal view) but inevitably in any sourcebook "The Laughing Man" or his equivalent will chime in about some particularly rare or dangerous aspect of Shadowrun and that marks it as relevant to the end-all, be-all of the Shadowrun canon. Vernya, however influential in Russia/Yakut, is "just" a free spirit, albeit a powerful one. By virtue of example, Buttercup (of...Yamatetsu?..liquor is inhibiting my recollection powers) is also a free spirit, albeit an enigmatic and powerful one. And Dunkelzahn (if I recall correctly) humiliated her by giving her True Name to some random orc. It's things like these that demote (in my mind) NPCs like Vernya.

I really didn't want some powerful free spirit or some quasi-elven-dragonian subplot. I was hoping there would be some original being of some sort that could theoretically stand toe-to-toe with the best of the uber-Elves, Great Dragons, and their kin. As I mentioned above, the upper echelon of the Shadowrun mythology is very "Eurocentric", and that bothers me when you have a culture, mythology, and background as rich as that of Asia-a previously untapped region of Shadowrun. Of course, ultimately (and therein lies my demise) what I want is a new super-being of ancient times, or at least ancient power, who is aknowledged as being just that; a unique, super-powered creature who is as powerful and influential as the previously existing characters. Sure, Harlequin is the most powerful metahuman mage of our time, but can you imagine how much it would screw with him (and therefore, everyone who knew of him) if he met a character who was his equal/superior yet had a 100% different agenda? Pure Gold.

*ahem* I'm done now. Carry on.
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 16 2005, 05:35 AM
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Dunky didn't give the ork her true name. He forced her to inhanbit his body for a year (and a day I think) which gave him the knowledge of her name . Then he gave him an amulet that acts as a high rating masking focus. Something that no one else (at least by the books) knows how to do.

As for the spirit, I thought that it was a neat twist to an area that hadn't been developed much. But I do agree that I was hoping for something different than the usual dragons-elves out of asia. But really, what else is there, besides horrors or spirits? Master-shedim still basically fall in to that category as well.

I think what you're looking for is a whole new threat, along the lines of the bugs/Invae, which would be really neat. 'Course they were, in the end, still spirits too. But they were unique.
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hahnsoo
post Sep 16 2005, 05:47 AM
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QUOTE (FiveVenoms)
I really didn't want some powerful free spirit or some quasi-elven-dragonian subplot. I was hoping there would be some original being of some sort that could theoretically stand toe-to-toe with the best of the uber-Elves, Great Dragons, and their kin. As I mentioned above, the upper echelon of the Shadowrun mythology is very "Eurocentric", and that bothers me when you have a culture, mythology, and background as rich as that of Asia-a previously untapped region of Shadowrun. Of course, ultimately (and therein lies my demise) what I want is a new super-being of ancient times, or at least ancient power, who is aknowledged as being just that; a unique, super-powered creature who is as powerful and influential as the previously existing characters.

Adding yet ANOTHER world-powerful awesome being? Ugh. I think the top is crowded as it is. And as far as Asian superhuman power-players, you have Masaru, Lung, Ryumyo, Buttercup, not to mention the more mundane power-players of corporate big-wigs like Aneki and Wu (heck, now you also have the Former-Corporate-Brat Vampire Otaku Empress Hitomi Shiawase); you don't need immortal elves to run a metaplot. The Shadowrun mythology is indeed world-wide... the only continent that isn't given its due is Africa, and they have Mujaji. OT: Antarctica was given its own chapter in Target: Wastelands, but Africa is in bits and pieces all over the canon? How odd.

Besides which, the big power-players in Shadowrun have always been in Asia, through the 5 of the big Ten AAA Megacorps headquartered there (that's half... S-K is the only European one). Although it has been Japan-centric in the early SR history, that's also a staple image from cyberpunk, which was born in a time when there were fears that Japan would eclipse all other industrial nations in economic power. And now, with Wuxing in China and Yamatetsu -> Evo breaking off into Russia, more attention is being paid to non-Japanese Asian powers. If anything, Europe was given lip-service from FASA for a long time, with just the Germany Sourcebook, Tir Na nOg, and the London Sourcebook.
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FiveVenoms
post Sep 16 2005, 05:52 AM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
I think what you're looking for is a whole new threat, along the lines of the bugs/Invae, which would be really neat. 'Course they were, in the end, still spirits too. But they were unique.

Well...yes. That is basically what I wanted. I'll admit to being an enormous Asia culture geek, so I really wanted to see that represented in Shadowrun. A unique presence that was as formidable as any of the "Tokien-esque" races and threats that already existed, partially because of my bias, and partially because we've been waiting (literally) more than ten years for an official overview of this part of the world and all it could contain.

PS: I'm in no position to argue about the facts of Buttercup's mishaps re: Dunkelzahn (seeing as how I'm intoxicated), but hopefully you see my point about free spirits, however poweful, being overshadowed by the superpowers of Shadowrun.
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FiveVenoms
post Sep 16 2005, 06:10 AM
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QUOTE
Adding yet ANOTHER world-powerful awesome being? Ugh. I think the top is crowded as it is. And as far as Asian superhuman power-players, you have Masaru, Lung, Ryumyo, Buttercup, not to mention the more mundane power-players of corporate big-wigs like Aneki and Wu (heck, now you also have the Former-Corporate-Brat Vampire Otaku Empress Hitomi Shiawase); you don't need immortal elves to run a metaplot.


Well, that's what I mean. I really wanted, (seeing as how Shadowrun seems to me to be very well-thought out in the terms of mythology vs. fictional reality) to see an Asian superpower play into everything. And all of the big players that you cited is either a dragon, a spirit, or a "normal" human. I was always given the impression that the dragons and elves were on top of everybody's game (based on their comments in the sourcebooks) and it irked me. Sort of like being not only omniscient, but then being an asshole about it. I'd like to see something capable of keeping those characters on their toes as well. World-powerful perhaps, but ideally more restrained-because if nothing else, I agree that the storyline DOES NOT need more complications insofar as people who wheel and deal. I just want to see something that can check these super-elves, etc. Give them a little humility, so to speak.
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RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 04:44 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.