 Max in a skill? |
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 Sep 6 2005, 07:44 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659  |
I know there is a max on attributes, but what is the max for a skill?
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Sep 6 2005, 07:51 PM
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#2
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
The skill maximum is 6 (7 with Aptitude), and the maximum augmented skill is 1.5 times the skill rating.
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Sep 6 2005, 07:53 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 14-August 03 Member No.: 5,492 |
And this is the 800 lb. gorilla in my room that all my players are complaining about when we convert their characters from SR3 to SR4.
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Sep 6 2005, 07:53 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 6-August 02 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 3,071 |
When is a skill counted as augmented?
Any clarifiactions on that? |
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Sep 6 2005, 07:57 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 5,889 |
The maximum (unaugmented) skill rating is 6. There's a Quality called Aptitude that will allow you to have a max of 7 in a single skill. Just like with attributes, there is also a maximum augmented rating, equal to base skill x 1.5 (which makes 9 the maximum possible rating, or 10 with the Aptitude Quality [SR4 pg 109]).
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Sep 6 2005, 07:57 PM
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#6
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
When implants/spells/whatever give bonus dice explicitly to that skill. So mnemonic enhancers augments all knowledge and language skills, but smartlink doesn't, nor do specializations. |
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Sep 6 2005, 07:57 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,650 |
As far as I can tell anything that raises it other than karma paid to the skill itself. It seems that the 1.5 limit stands for adept powers, cyber, you name it. Reguardless of what other limitations might be placed elsewhere (eg max aug for adepts is skill rating, availability, essence etc) the 1.5 limit appears to trump all. If it's in parenthesis then it's limited to 1.5 racial max. --Edit-- As mentioned above certain things like smartlink, specialization etc give you a dice pool bonus on certain tests. This is not an addition to Skill Dice. |
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Sep 6 2005, 07:59 PM
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#8
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Well, remember that the 10 equivalent skill in SR3 is now a 7 equivalent skill in SR4. Most 6's would be converted to 4's or 5's, and the SR4 6 is more of an equivalent to an SR3 8. |
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Sep 6 2005, 08:07 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 5,889 |
SR4 pg 109:
That's the only place I've seen reference to augmented skill caps so far. Addendum: Okay, I found another reference to modified skill ratings (BTW, I love searchable PDFs!) SR4 pg 63
Oddly, there's no mention there about specializations. I'm not sure if they should count or not. The description of how specializations work certainly sound like they would (i.e., "A specialization grants the character 2 extra dice on tests using that skill when the particular specialty applies.") Edit: Nevermind, it looks like specializations raise your base skill (at least according to pg 63). So, maybe you could get up to a skill pool of 13? Nine from skill 7 + specialization 2 then 4 more augmented dice? |
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Sep 6 2005, 08:14 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
Would this be legal?
4 automatics +2 AK97 +1 recorded reflexes +2 smart linked So is that max really only 4? |
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Sep 6 2005, 08:16 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
Err, I mean would I cap out at 6 since I only have 4 firearms?
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Sep 6 2005, 08:17 PM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,650 |
The key language seems to be the difference between "Adding dice to a skill test" or "Providing bonus dice to a skill" Adding dice to a skill test is augmenting the dice pool not the skill. Providing bonus dice to the skill is augmenting the skill and would cause the skill to be read as Pistols 6 (7) for instance for a +1 die to the pistols skill. |
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Sep 6 2005, 08:26 PM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 5,889 |
Arg, now I'm completely confused.
I went to the Adept Powers section to look at the Improved Ability power. It says "This power gives you additional dice for use with a specific Active skill." followed by "You cannot have more additional dice than your base skill rating." How is this supposed to tie in with maximum augmented skill ratings? |
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Sep 6 2005, 08:32 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,650 |
In another thread on adept twinks it was mentioned that this should probably go the way of 'adding dice to the skill'. It keeps adepts a little more grounded compared to chromers and is the way I'm playing it in my current game. The more additional dice than skill rating is a seperate limitation. For instance. If you've got a 3 skill, you can Imp Ability for 3 more dice as that meets the limit for adepts. 6 total dice in the skill is still below the max augmented threshold. Now, if you've got a 6 in the skill you can still only Imp. Ability for 3 due to the 1.5 limitation. |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:09 PM
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#15
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
This sure changes things.
So the base max skill limit of 6 is there, regardless of the attribute that the skill is linked to. (eg even with a 7 or 8 Strength the character can still only max out at 6 in natural skill). The Augmented limit seems to really put a damper on character growth. With 9 being the absolute once a character reaches this (via implant, magic or adept power) they can progress no further. Sounds like they need to come up with an "Epic Level" runners supplement. |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:21 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
Do specializations count towards the limit?
Smart link is just a bonus similiar to aiming for awhile right? So it doesn't apply? |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:26 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 5-December 04 Member No.: 6,869 |
Well I'm not sure what the +2 AK97's supposed to be. +2 as a specialty? If that's what you mean then you should know that you can't take a specialty more than once. So let's say 4 Automatics, Specialty: AK97, +1 Recorded Reflexed, +2 Smart Linked, +2 Aiming. That's a total of 10 (4+1+2+2) which it totally fine. Your skill isn't above 9. It's the other modifiers that take it up. As for specialties I wouldn't count that towards skill limit. I'd allow a skill of 9 and a specialty no problem. |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:29 PM
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#18
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Just a note that your specialization would be Assault Rifles, not AK-97. Thus:
Automatics 4 (Assault Rifles +2) You'd roll 6 + Agility + 1 for Reflex Recorder + 2 for Smartlink + any take aim for your attack rolls with an Assault Rifle. |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:33 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
What applies to the augmented limits then? Is it only for adepts? Or does some cyberware apply?
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Sep 6 2005, 09:49 PM
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#20
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Sure. Muscle replacement and the like. Anything that adds specificly to an attribute or skill for all purpouses of that rating, and only for that rating. For skills I donīt know of any examples for when it applies, as skillsofts are caped far lower.
And Lord Ben; I noticed that you confused the augumented cap, it doesnīt set the limit at your current skill * 1.5, but your maximum skill * 1.5. So in your example, you would have a skill of 4 period. All the modifiers you stated are situational and apply to the dice pool not the skill (except specialization but thats a special case). |
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Sep 6 2005, 09:56 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 5,889 |
I quoted two places from the book where it says the max is your base skill * 1.5. Can you provide a quote for your interpretation? |
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Sep 6 2005, 10:05 PM
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#22
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Just spent some time checking it myself. And you are right it does say that. However, when it comes to skills the only significant example of were it applies is Improved Ability. And that discription says you can increase the skill up to twice your natural skill. With my interpretation both of these could be true. With yours one of them has to be false. I know what Iīm gonna go with, but I sadly canīt prove anyone wrong.
<<edit>> I would like to say that thereīs another problem here, and that is that the discription of Improved Ability states that itīs a bonus to the test, not explicitly the skill. If thatīs the way they want it, IA rocks and I canīt imagine what the base skill (or max skill?) * 1.5 even limits in the first place. I certainly havenīt seen any example of were it clearly applies as of yet. So I simply think that this whole thing is a mess and I choose the way I wanna play it. Heck, when I first spoke up I thought that was how it was really, but now I just think there IS no right interpretation of this mess. |
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Sep 6 2005, 10:16 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
Well, my DM is saying that all cyberware that provides a bonus counts as a bonus for the maximum. Essentially limiting anyone to 18 dice...
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Sep 6 2005, 11:04 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 5,889 |
I agree. There are two places in the book that they talk about skill caps in general discussion of how skills work. No where else do they seem to acknowledge those couple of sentences. None of the magic, cyber, or skill bonus descriptions seem to have any idea that there is an augmented skill cap. So, until there's some clarification from on high, we should probably either ignore augmented skill caps across the board, or apply them equally to any cyber or magic that adds to skills (or rolls with particular skills). |
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Sep 7 2005, 12:17 AM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 975 |
[
It makes no sence that if your skill is 6 you can have a 6 in this adept power but never be able to use more than a level 3. Can anyone find the logic in that? |
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