 Stun Dmg linked to Willpower?, Or, the Troll who couldn't take a punch |
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  Sep 7 2005, 07:16 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 2-September 05 From: Canada Member No.: 7,672  |
Is it just me, or is it strange that your stun boxes are linked to willpower instead of Body?
In some senses, I can see this is an improvement (magic types)...but logically, I just cannot see a low willpower troll being able to take less of a beating than the average human in stun damage. I was talking about SR4 to a friend, and I mentioned this aspect. It was enough to make him never want to look at the new edition, and he's stubborn about that sort of thing. Now, I guess a higher body would make up for it a little, as you would take fewer hits on average. However, I'm already finding it a little disconcerting about the number of posts describing the new way to take down a troll fast... stun dmg. Anyway, if there is something I'm just not getting, let me know. -Ravennus |
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Sep 7 2005, 07:43 AM
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#2
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
The Troll can't endure more pain, it's just harder to inflict pain upon him.
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Sep 7 2005, 07:49 AM
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#3
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
but if they have a lowered will, they actually can't endure as much pain.
So, what, they're so used to not getting hurt that acutally getting through makes em curl up in a ball? |
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Sep 7 2005, 07:59 AM
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#4
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
You still resist damage (Stun or Physical) using Body. You just have less boxes with a lower willpower, that's all (and only one or two at the most). A troll is still tough, stun damage or not. But they are still affected the same as other metahumans by tasers and stunbolts.
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Sep 7 2005, 08:02 AM
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#5
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
as I still don't have SR4 (sad for me) I'm really just throwing out thoughts as they come. So feel free to ignore me until next week . But thanks Hahnsoo. You're book-fu is strong
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Sep 7 2005, 08:10 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: 26-May 02 Member No.: 2,769 |
Why would they be affected the same by a taser? I mean 2-3 times the mass of a human hit by a charge designed to incapacitate a human.. hehe taser a grizzly bear or elephant I will doubt that they will go down like a human would. Also the troll should not wear heavy armour, because they have fewer stun boxes than physical.. *I mean huh* But its true, those 8 points of ballastic armour stopped the bullet, no physical damage just stun. Oh wait you have fewer boxes of stun than physical, sorry mr troll you go down just as fast as the average human( same # of stun damage boxes taken). Yes, you are correct inpart because a troll can mitigate more damage than a human. But they still have the same threshold for unconcienseness, just not death. Which is kinda wonkey. |
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Sep 7 2005, 08:13 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
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Sep 7 2005, 08:14 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 400 |
It makes sense when it comes to tasers, spells, toxins and pretty much any other source of stun damage. But a punch in the face? That is a little bit hard to swallow. An adept with killing hands might just choose not to use it against trolls.
All in all, it's a small gripe, and i'm otherwise digging the new damage system. |
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Sep 7 2005, 08:26 AM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Actually Will 5 has the same number of stun boxes as Will 6, it is 8+(Will/2) rounded up. Without an Exceptional Attribute used by the Orc/Elf/Human, the Troll will have the same tolerance to stubbing his toe. |
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Sep 7 2005, 09:10 AM
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#10
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
thanks, that's one of the things I'm missing by not having the book (yet :S )
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Sep 7 2005, 09:56 AM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: 26-May 02 Member No.: 2,769 |
you need to edit some of those typo's man. Overall you gave me several good ideas. Thanks! And the specialization thing, yeah my group already houseruled it to the same thing, 2bp per specialization die, up to 2 dice. I mean, when they created sr4, they made everything cost so much. Now that all the attributes and skills are so low. But then, if you specialize your still back to 6 or more skill dice, for only 2 BP.. WTF? And LOL yup if i was a adept i would not use physical killing hands on a troll, it would be stupid. |
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Sep 7 2005, 01:21 PM
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#12
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I might concider making stun boxes (body+will)/4. Easy change that wont effect the game ballance much, I think.
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Sep 7 2005, 02:38 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
If I was a troll I'd just get Adrenal glands to make myself immune to stun damage. Let the stupid adept unleash a few stun punches, by the time he realizes you're immune to getting knocked out while the juice is flowing he'll likely be paste.
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Sep 7 2005, 04:51 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
How do Adrenal glands make you immune to stun damage?
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Sep 7 2005, 04:54 PM
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#15
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
It doesn't - you just don't blackout anymore, as it works like a pain editor, too.
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Sep 7 2005, 05:06 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
For 1d6 to 3d6 rounds at least, then you not only have the old penalties but also new ones equal to one stun damage per round it was active.
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Sep 7 2005, 05:57 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 16-August 05 Member No.: 7,558 |
Well first off. I would suggest reading the rules first before pronouncing that trolls are wimps. :P
1. Trolls and humans have the same starting and maximum Willpower. They both start with 1 Willpower and have a maximum of 6. 2. If the Damage value of an attack does not exceed the Armor piercing modified Armor rating then the attack does Stun damage instead of Lethal. So a 5L would become 5S. 3. You still resist the Damage Value of an attack with Body + Armor. Trolls have a natural Armor rating of 1 which stacks with any other Armor that they have. 4. A Troll's Body rating starts out at 5 and has a maximum of rating of 10! Compared to the Humans starting Body of 1 and maximum of 6. 5. The maximum enhanced Body of a Troll is 15. A Human has a maximum enhanced Body of 9. So, Trolls are not going to curl up into a ball in pain from a pimp slap. |
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Sep 7 2005, 06:31 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
dont make a mountain out of a molehill.
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Sep 7 2005, 09:39 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Too lazy to check - are there any Stun damage spells that are resisted solely with Willpower?
Against such the massive troll would curl up into a ball just as quickly as the puny 'uman... |
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Sep 7 2005, 09:45 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Stunbolt ...
SYL |
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Sep 7 2005, 09:48 PM
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#21
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Interesting, though - most Clubs now deal Physical Damage...
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Sep 7 2005, 09:48 PM
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#22
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
The classic Stunbolt, or the variants Knockout (touch range) or Stunball (fun for the whole family). P.S. Damn straight it should take the Troll down. Something has to. |
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Sep 7 2005, 09:58 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Take two Narcojets. ;-)
SYL |
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Sep 7 2005, 10:06 PM
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#24
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
For my peace of mind I had to quickly check the toxin rules, and thankfuly, narcojets are resisted with Body and nothing else. (Still a good choice agaist a troll, but not as good as a stun bolt)
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Sep 7 2005, 10:51 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 2-September 05 From: Canada Member No.: 7,672 |
Not sure if your post was meant for me, but I'll respond as if it was. :) First of all, I never suggested that a troll had a lower max willpower than humans. Second of all, I was just commenting on how strange it was that a 10 foot troll that's built like a tank will soak up the lethal dmg...but then if he gets hit with stun damage that gets through (from any source), he drops just as quickly as a 5'10" human. It shouldn't be a disadvantage for a troll to turn physical hits into stun hits with armor, because that means he will go down quicker than his bulk implies. Either way, it is a minor gripe. I just thought it was strange, and thought I'd start a discussion on it since no one else had. If I was that slotted off about it, I would have been much more colorful in my language, lol. (see my rant on another thread about the cyberlimb rules in SR4 for that) Also, I read the rules, thanks. I also realize Trolls are still the tanks of Shadowrun... heck, even more so in SR4. If I implied they are wimps, I apologize. Not my intention.... though I admit the subtitle to the thread was a little misleading (more to attract attention, lol). -Ravennus |
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