 Newbie GM questions, Questions from a newbie GM |
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  Sep 9 2005, 11:27 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 3-September 05 Member No.: 7,676  |
Hi folks. This is my very first posting here, so please be kind.
I am running a campaign and, although I am experienced at GMing other games, my Shadowrun Book-Fu is weak. I am sure the following questions are answered somewhere- if they are let me know. 1) "Control Thoughts" spell. What if the target doesn't speak a language the caster does? Ie: English speaking Shaman casts it on a person who speaks only French? 2) "Treat" and "Heal" spells. Per the SR3 description: - “A character can only be healed once for any single set of injuries.” Say a guy takes 4 (separate) light physical wounds in a single encounter. Does that mean he gets the benefit of 4 Heal spells, or, because its a single encounter, does he get one roll for all of them? (I should point out that I am an unforgiving, merciless GM and have been defaulting to the 2nd idea.) 3) Armour and "Armour" spell. My players have a goon whom they armour up and then cast level 5 armour spell on him. He usually ends up with an armour factor of about 10 or so, making him impervious to normal weapons. Its getting tough to justify constant non-physical attacks and enemy spell casts constantly 'dispelling' the spell. 4) Karma Pool use in down time. (This one bugs me) My players use their Karma pools shamelessly during their downtime. They don't *burn* it, they just use it a lot. Its hard to create down-time situations that can 'soak up' their pools. (I suspect the response to this will be something like 'Suck it up, bucko.' 5) Multiple Spirits. In the middle of a run one of my Shamen will stop and summon 3 or so level 4 spirits. He will wait out the drain and then have this wee little army running amok. Apart from Drain (he'll take a light and rest), leaving the domain and end-of-day is there any way to wean him of this habit? 6) Manabolt. My players manabolt everything they see, hear or smell. Its their first, best and favourite spell. Its getting difficult to explain the Mafia goons with the Willpower of 5. Any ideas? Well those are the problems which spring to my mind immediately. I've worked around most of them with House Rules, but I have read some of the other topics on this site and I know there are a lot of fiendish, odd people out there who will have some ideas. Thanks |
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Sep 9 2005, 11:45 PM
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#2
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Most GMs allow the mental connection of Control Thoughts to pass the language barrier. It's up to you, of course.
The latter is correct. It isn't unforgiving or merciless. You only get one First Aid test, and one Heal/Treat test (and if you use Magical Healing, you can't use First Aid afterwards, but you can use First Aid before).
Use wards, or other astral barriers. Sustained spells are dispelled when they cross an astral barrier (subject to the rules in Magic in the Shadows). Or use alternate methods of taking down the "goon"... you don't have to kill him, either nets, tasers, spells, even a good old pit.
Karma Pool should only refresh when the GM deems appropriate. I wouldn't let the Karma Pool refresh between downtime and the beginning of the run. Let them steam it out at the beginning of the run if they wish to squander it. Another way, you can simply let the Karma Pool available at the end of every run to apply during downtime... in other words, don't refresh the Karma at the end of the run, until the next run begins.
You can only have one spirit as a Shaman. SR3 p184:
Manabolt is popular and powerful, this is true. However, it also kills AND it leaves an astral signature. It's also a spell and thus is subject to the usual countermeasures of spells (if they have a sec-mage or an Elemental around, they won't be happy). Also, remember to enforce background count.
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Sep 9 2005, 11:51 PM
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#3
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I agree with Hahnsoo. Make karma pool refresh at the end of a run, not the beginning of it. That way any karma pool that is spent during downtime is unavailable during the next run. ~J |
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Sep 10 2005, 12:12 AM
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#4
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
2) There are 2 schools of thought on this. You can rule that any single set of wounds to be all the wounds until that point or any single wound. So it is up to you to interpret it. What both sides agree on is that First Aid before Heal/Treat. 4)
Seem clear enough to me. If your PCs keep their Karma pool during game time, I do not see the problem with them spending it during downtime, but it just does not refresh until the beginning of the next gaming session.
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Sep 10 2005, 12:27 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
"Set of injuries" -- the injuries that the character has taken up to the point of "Heal".
If there's a firefight going on and someone drags the almost dead adept under cover to apply healing, heals him up 5 boxes (of 7 damage taken), and then he takes another 2.. and gets healed again, he can only be healed the 2 he took after the damage. Armour + "Armour" -- successes are your friend. Enough successes and even TN2 won't save you. Karma Pool.. it only refreshes when you say so.. so only let it refresh when you want. If they want to spend their entire karma pool on downtime, they can.. don't refresh it before the run. That being said -- it's the standard view, I just don't particularly like it. I accept it in the high powered game I'm in, but in an ordinary game? It really should refresh fairly consistently. Spirits -- 1 per domain (unless greatform). Greatforms have nasty drain (second check being 2*force-grade). Manabolt -- Mages with shielding. |
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Sep 10 2005, 12:52 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 3-September 05 Member No.: 7,676 |
Excellent feedback, folks. Knew I came to the right place. You rock. 8)
For your troubles here are some more questions: 7) Invisibility. Indirect Illusions are resisted by Intelligence. One of my PCs has Improved Invisibility 3. He casts it on the Goon. As far as I can tell when the Goon tries to walk past eh security Guard with Int of 3 the TN is 3 (level of the spell) and he gets 3 dice. If that is the correct way of running the spell it seems to me that Invisibility is pretty much useless at less than level 5. 7a) Perception. If the guard in the case above detects the Goon does that ‘blow’ the spell completely? (ie: “Hey look! It’s a one-eyed troll in a red mumu carrying a transparent bag full of shaved weasels!” vs “What was that?”) I would be tempted to use the Perception Success table on pg 232 of SR3. 8) Astral Perception- can astral perception assense the exact nature of a sustained spell on a subject via their aura? Eg: Johnson has Control Emotions sustained on him, the assensing mage gets lucky with 5 successes- that would be enough for “..general cause of any astral signatures (combat spell, etc)” Would the assensing mage be able to look and say “Hey- that dude has Control Emotions on him!” 9) Etiquette. One of my players has the Etiquette skill with no specialization/sub- culture. I find it hard to imagine that dealing with the Mafia, an ambassadorial reception in Aztlan and a corporate meeting with a CEO would be so similar that only the Social Situations table would apply. I am considering ‘forcing’ the player to specialize. |
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Sep 10 2005, 01:02 AM
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#7
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
I don't allow Karma pool use during down time. The description of this (Extended Actions, SR3 p. 246) can easily be interpreted to mean that the standard rule is to not allow it, but a GM can choose to allow it if he wants.
Tell them that Shadowrun REQUIRES conflicts that are difficult to overcome. The players get more satisfaction from succeeding at something that is difficult than something that is easy. Tell them that henceforth goons will have whatever willpower you choose in order to make them have the right level of challenge for that part of the adventure. And the right Karma Pool. And the right Armor and/or Weapons and/or Spells. You're going to make Manabolt less effective for them by raising the goons' willpower. You're going to make Shotguns less effective (if 5 Street Samurai face off against 5 Knight Errant guards in a dark alley 30 meters apart and they all have Shotguns then the first one to fire can do Deadly damage to all of the enemies). If they all play with Shotguns then they'll easily win 3 out of 4 battles, but the opponents will all have Shotguns too and will blow away the team on every 4th battle. Do they want to make characters that often? |
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Sep 10 2005, 01:06 AM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
It's not that hard to get through... A 6-round burst from a compensated assault rifle loaded with Ex-Ex ammo will go through it like it wasn't there. (damage code 16D) Mind you, not every ganger or security guard is going to have one, but it's basically off the shelf (if slightly expensive) weaponry - if they can get away with using him as an impervious tank all the time, you're just not using enough firepower. |
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Sep 10 2005, 01:12 AM
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#9
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
7) For most spells the Force of the spell makes a big difference in the results. For example, a target hit by Manabolt 5 will typically get twice as many successes on his resistance test than one hit by Manabolt 6.
Invisibility, however, is fairly broken. Even at Force 1 a beginning magician can easily get 6 successes (6 Sorcery + 6 Spell giving 12 dice vs. target 4). With 6 successes it automatically succeeds against anyone with Intelligence 5 or less. 7a) Yes, you can consider Etiquette to be a little strange, from that 'realistic' point of view. However when a force specialization is required (as it was in Shadowrun 2nd edition) then the skill is fairly costly (during character creation) compared to its benefit in the Game. Some things in 2nd edition were too cheap (like the 'Firearms' skill working with most types of hand-held weapons) compared to its benefit. I think SR3 has made the 'cost' to 'benefit' ratio for Etiquette and the various Firearm skills better than it was in 2nd Edition Shadowrun. Even more strange than Etiquette is that 'City Speak' (the language of the homeless and other street people) is a specialization of English in 3rd edition. This means that the Oxford Professor of English from England can speak City Speak fluently while in the Redmond Barrens. |
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Sep 10 2005, 01:28 AM
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#10
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
There are some types of Armor that automatically deflects any attack whose power is less than or equal to the rating of the armor. Your players shouldn't have this type of armor. This armor is called Hardened Armor, and is available to the Military ("Hardened Military-Grade Armor", Cannon Companion page 51). Some creatures also have the Hardened Armor power (SR3 p. 263) which gives it the same thing. A spirit with Materialization Power (SR3 p. 264) has Immunity to Normal Weapons (Immunity, SR3 p. 264) which has the same affect againt most things a mundane character can do. A force 4 materialized City Spirit with 8 points of Immunity is immune to attacks from a Light Machine Gun (power 7), but can be affected by a Heavy Pistol (power 9). Go figure. Your characters should not have Hardened Armor. This means that the goon with 10 points of armor still has a TN of 2 to resist an attack. If he stands out in the open and is shot by a Guard Captain (Submachine Guns 6, Combat Pool 6+, Smartlink) then the Guard Captain can easily get 10 successes on his 12 dice vs TN 2. The goon will need 9 successes vs. TN 2 just to stay alive, and 12 successes to avoid taking a Serious wound. The Guard Captain will then take his second simple action, doing another Burst from the SMG. With these standard rules your goon will soon learn (or his replacement character will learn) that he has to take cover, dodge, hide in shadows, etc. While the magician is sustaining the spell the Magician is at +2 for all success tests. This makes the goon more useful and the magician less useful. A fairly reasonable trade. If the magician wants to avoid sustaining it he can purchase and bond a Sustaining Focus. At 1 Karma and 15,000 or 30,000 nuyen for each force point of the Sustaining Focus (and thus per point of armor), this armor gets to be very expensive. And while the Sustaining focus is active it can be targeted by a Manabolt from either the Physical or Astral Plane which can damage or destroy the object (SR3 p. 176, right column, about 2/3 of the way down the page). If every 6th adventure or so the Sustaining focus gets blown up that's a lot of Karma and Nuyen in expenses. An Armor Spell glows. So either the character walks around getting the attention of every guard and cop, or the magician has to cast a spell into the focus and physically place the sustaining focus the goon character at the start of every battle for it to be effective. (SR3 p. 191 top left paragraph). Standing by the goon character and casting a glowing spell is likely to trigger the first rule of Shadowrun. "Geek the mage first." |
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Sep 10 2005, 01:51 AM
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#11
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Just to clarify, the rules on Magic in the Shadows p107 for Great Form Nature Spirits:
So a shaman can have multiple spirits, as long as all but one of them are great forms. Again, you can only be in one domain at a time, and thus only have one normal nature spirit bound to you at a time. |
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Sep 10 2005, 01:52 AM
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#12
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Hardened Armour is fairly easy to procure. Gel pack with Normal clothing(Avail is always) = Hardened Armour for 250 :nuyen:
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Sep 10 2005, 03:01 AM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Looks like most of your questions have been answered already. Just two more observations, though.
First, on the Etiquette thing, if you want to make it more specialized without hobbling the character, then allow more Knowledge skills as complementary tests. So the ganger with Etiquette: 6 who also has skills like gang turf or underworld politics will be a bit better in his own element than he would be meeting with a Johnson uptown. Secondly, on the manabolt thing - if the group has a mage on their side, and the opposition doesn't, that should be a big advantage. But if the other side does have a mage, start having them target the other runners to give them a bit of their own medicine. Mages have lots and lots of dice - if they take all of those dice and throw them all into a spell, most mundanes are in trouble. However... the reason that they have so many dice, is because they are there for three functions: spellcasting, soaking Drain, and providing spell defense to themselves and others. The last one is important. Don't start suddenly having every enemy have mages on their side, but have it happen every now and then (mages are rare in the general population, but not among shadowrunners, or among the opposition commonly faced by 'runners). Let them learn that mages should usually keep some Spell Pool in reserve for defense, and the manabolt won't be quite as irresistable. |
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Sep 10 2005, 03:12 AM
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#14
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Oh, another note that I forgot to add: If you have multiple (more than one) spellcasters in a group, perhaps you should start pitting them against more exotic threats. Spellcasters charge a premium for their services, typically, and people who are willing to pay that premium often have jobs that are more magical in nature (heavily guarded with wards, astral security, etc.). The right tool for the right job, and all that. It'll be more challenging for your players and it would prevent you from tearing your hair out at trying to "control" your magician stable.
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Sep 10 2005, 05:49 AM
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#15
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
As mentioned, you need to equal the number of successes on the casting test. Invisibility is just fine at Force 1, as most PC mages will get more successes than most NPCs have Intelligence to resist with.
It blows the spell completely. By some interpretations (including mine), the guard wouldn't even realize that the goon was supposed to be invisible in the first place. ~J |
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Sep 10 2005, 07:15 AM
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#16
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
also remember the great equalizers on mages:
1) sustaining spells is +2 to all target numbers per spell sustained 2) background count - a lot of places in the sprawl that a runner would be in regularly can easily be explained as having at least a +1 , like the Redmomnd Barrens, especially pleaces like Glow City. Or the stifling Corporate Enclave that dehumanizes it's workers. Or the brothel. Or the 'rough part of town' that people 'tend to dissapear in' 3)multiple opponents. There is little anyone can do short of hardened armor that 4 guys shooting at multiple times can't take down. If you have two sec gaurds shoot for their two simple actions, then shoot three or four more rounds at +2 each shot (assume some sort of recoil comp and/or smartlink), they are going to hit a few times, even if your runners are smart enough to use cover. 4) Geek the mage first - use the above. I've got a ninja type in one of my games that is also a spell caster that causes me no end of headaches. First time I gavehim a deadly wound was 4 triad members (nothing special, inferior characters w/ predators) at short range, each shooting 4 or 5 times. Second time was in melee with a bunch of ghouls. 'Friends in melee' can be your friend too. 5) enemies have spirits too. Throw a confusion at the mage, or attack him on the astral to keep him busy. Elementals are even better. Nothing like engulfing the mage with an earth elemental to take him out of the fight. 6) magic requires LOS, which is very hard to get when the mage with the 3 body gets nailed for 12S from a flash grenade. Make it a flash/bang, and he's in a world of hurt, all in stun damage, which will make him very hesitant about casting spells with any chance of drain. As for invisibilty, a good sec team could also have ultrasound equipment (goggles) that can deal with that pretty well . |
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Sep 10 2005, 07:15 AM
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#17
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
also remember the great equalizers on mages:
1) sustaining spells is +2 to all target numbers per spell sustained 2) background count - a lot of places in the sprawl that a runner would be in regularly can easily be explained as having at least a +1 , like the Redmomnd Barrens, especially pleaces like Glow City. Or the stifling Corporate Enclave that dehumanizes it's workers. Or the brothel. Or the 'rough part of town' that people 'tend to dissapear in' 3)multiple opponents. There is little anyone can do short of hardened armor that 4 guys shooting at multiple times can't take down. If you have two sec gaurds shoot for their two simple actions, then shoot three or four more rounds at +2 each shot (assume some sort of recoil comp and/or smartlink), they are going to hit a few times, even if your runners are smart enough to use cover. 4) Geek the mage first - use the above. I've got a ninja type in one of my games that is also a spell caster that causes me no end of headaches. First time I gavehim a deadly wound was 4 triad members (nothing special, inferior characters w/ predators) at short range, each shooting 4 or 5 times. Second time was in melee with a bunch of ghouls. 'Friends in melee' can be your friend too. 5) enemies have spirits too. Throw a confusion at the mage, or attack him on the astral to keep him busy. Elementals are even better. Nothing like engulfing the mage with an earth elemental to take him out of the fight. 6) magic requires LOS, which is very hard to get when the mage with the 3 body gets nailed for 12S from a flash grenade. Make it a flash/bang, and he's in a world of hurt, all in stun damage, which will make him very hesitant about casting spells with any chance of drain. As for invisibilty, a good sec team could also have ultrasound equipment (goggles) that can deal with that pretty well . |
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Sep 10 2005, 07:44 AM
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#18
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
I've run Etiquette like this in the past, and it worked well. For every specific group you want to be good at talking to, you buy the skill. E: Go Gangs 3 E: Law Enforcement 2 E: Yakuza 4 I'm sure this doesn't float everyone's boat, but it worked pretty well and got rid of that "why am I just as good at fitting in wth a group of medical doctors as I am with dealing with the Ork Underground as I am at talking to the Humanis Policlub?" stuff. Also:
Nope. SR3 pg. 195 Invisibility ... Invisibility afffects the minds of viewers. Improved Invisibility affects technological sensors as well. |
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Sep 10 2005, 07:50 AM
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#19
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I just incorporate various Knowledge skills when using Etiquette. |
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Sep 10 2005, 07:59 AM
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#20
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
That sounds like it'd work well too. May have to try it next time I'm GMing.
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Sep 10 2005, 08:16 AM
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#21
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Imp invisibilty hides the recipient from thermographic and vision. Ultrasound works off of sound waves. If you want to null that one too, you can use the silence or stealth spells. But Ultrasound has nothing to do with light spectrums, which is what invisibility is all about. It's sound waves. |
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Sep 10 2005, 09:07 AM
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#22
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
*nods* Invisibility/Improved Invisibility is a single-sense illusion (sight). Sure, it will fool any sight-based measures, but it won't fool ultrasound equipment. For that, you'd need Silence (although that can cause other problems as well).
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Sep 10 2005, 06:56 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 3-September 05 Member No.: 7,676 |
If Invisibility affects the mind wouldn't that then allow the invisible person to remain invisible on the astral? I know that the Invisible persons *aura* is visible, but that seems rather silly. Rather like having an invisibility spell that doesn't affect equipment carried.
Or is this another case of 'footprints in the snow' where the object is invisible, but not its effects (sound, smell, etc) 'Nother question- Dodging grenades. I add a +2 modifier to the dodge test- is that reasonable. Any ideas on how to stop 'harvesting'? My players have a new hobby, which is taking cyberwear of anyone they kill and fencing it. So far I have resorted to the following speedbumps in their journey to larceny-ville: - You damaged it removing it - Lone Star is very interested in why you're carrying a human head - Your totem disapproves of the mutilation of dead bodies - Your fence offers you (10% of the listed cost) - Your fence is disgusted and alarmed by the used and unhygienic equipment you are trying to sell him Frankly the players regard stripping their opponents as the post-mortem version of searching someones pockets. They mostly have biotech skill at pretty good levels (4's and 5's), but it doesn't take genius to decapitate a body for its cybereyes. The have a van with a fridge in the back just for body parts. (I have had the cops pull them over, but their Face was really good.) Elementals- I went after my players goon (Str 10, Body 8) with a force 3 Earth Elemental. I used the Engulf attack and got lucky with a hit. Per the rules he had to check for smother damage of 3S with his 8 Body dice. The next round he tries to break free pitting his Str 10 vs the Elementals Force of 3. Needless to say he got out. Did I handle this correctly? (In retrospect the giant cybered goon was not my best choice for my goofy little force 3 pile-o-dirt, but it did keep him busy fending the thing off.) Thanks again for the advice. |
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Sep 10 2005, 07:06 PM
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#24
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Reasonable-ish. My approach is to just allow every net dodge success to move someone one meter further from the blast center (this also means it's easier to dodge a grenade if it isn't specifically aimed at you).
Why stop them? ~J |
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Sep 10 2005, 07:11 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Speaking as someone who has shot another PC and taken out his cyber.. it's not necessairily a bad thing. (Especially if the Character deserves it, for idiocy)
That being said... they're taking the entire head, for the eyes? And they have biotech at 4-5? ... Anyway, selling the other guys cyberware is a frequent occurance -- where do you think the "used" cyberware you get from a street doc is from? Not usually someone who had an upgrade, I would imagine. The 10% listed price sounds about right though. As long as the group doesn't do something silly, like walk through a residential neighbourhood with assault rifles carrying troll cyberhands and covered in blood, it shouldn't be that big a deal. If it's getting extreme, just say there's a market glut of "ordinary" cybereyes, and everyone's after modded ones, and toss them a pittance (100-200 nuyen). As for invisibility.. astral perception is not "sight", it's supernatural awareness, so no, invisibility doesn't affect astral. The target cannot be seen physically, but someone astrally active can perceive them. Most people use "sight" to describe it because that's comfortable, easy terminology, but really, astral perception could just as easily be almost entirely tactile -- someone could "feel" the presences. Most of the time, it's interpretted like vision because vision is the human dominant sense, so the input is translated into visual terms. |
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