Most GMs allow the mental connection of Control Thoughts to pass the language barrier. It's up to you, of course.

The latter is correct. It isn't unforgiving or merciless. You only get one First Aid test, and one Heal/Treat test (and if you use Magical Healing, you can't use First Aid afterwards, but you can use First Aid before).

Use wards, or other astral barriers. Sustained spells are dispelled when they cross an astral barrier (subject to the rules in Magic in the Shadows). Or use alternate methods of taking down the "goon"... you don't have to kill him, either nets, tasers, spells, even a good old pit.

Karma Pool should only refresh when the GM deems appropriate. I wouldn't let the Karma Pool refresh between downtime and the beginning of the run. Let them steam it out at the beginning of the run if they wish to squander it.

Another way, you can simply let the Karma Pool available at the end of every run to apply during downtime... in other words, don't refresh the Karma at the end of the run, until the next run begins.

You can only have one spirit as a Shaman. SR3 p184:

Manabolt is popular and powerful, this is true. However, it also kills AND it leaves an astral signature. It's also a spell and thus is subject to the usual countermeasures of spells (if they have a sec-mage or an Elemental around, they won't be happy). Also, remember to enforce background count.

I agree with Hahnsoo. Make karma pool refresh at the end of a run, not the beginning of it. That way any karma pool that is spent during downtime is unavailable during the next run.

~J

Seem clear enough to me. If your PCs keep their Karma pool during game time, I do not see the problem with them spending it during downtime, but it just does not refresh until the beginning of the next gaming session.

I don't allow Karma pool use during down time. The description of this (Extended Actions, SR3 p. 246) can easily be interpreted to mean that the standard rule is to not allow it, but a GM can choose to allow it if he wants.

Tell them that Shadowrun REQUIRES conflicts that are difficult to overcome. The players get more satisfaction from succeeding at something that is difficult than something that is easy. Tell them that henceforth goons will have whatever willpower you choose in order to make them have the right level of challenge for that part of the adventure. And the right Karma Pool. And the right Armor and/or Weapons and/or Spells. You're going to make Manabolt less effective for them by raising the goons' willpower. You're going to make Shotguns less effective (if 5 Street Samurai face off against 5 Knight Errant guards in a dark alley 30 meters apart and they all have Shotguns then the first one to fire can do Deadly damage to all of the enemies). If they all play with Shotguns then they'll easily win 3 out of 4 battles, but the opponents will all have Shotguns too and will blow away the team on every 4th battle. Do they want to make characters that often?

It's not that hard to get through... A 6-round burst from a compensated assault rifle loaded with Ex-Ex ammo will go through it like it wasn't there. (damage code 16D)

Mind you, not every ganger or security guard is going to have one, but it's basically off the shelf (if slightly expensive) weaponry - if they can get away with using him as an impervious tank all the time, you're just not using enough firepower.

There are some types of Armor that automatically deflects any attack whose power is less than or equal to the rating of the armor. Your players shouldn't have this type of armor.

This armor is called Hardened Armor, and is available to the Military ("Hardened Military-Grade Armor", Cannon Companion page 51). Some creatures also have the Hardened Armor power (SR3 p. 263) which gives it the same thing. A spirit with Materialization Power (SR3 p. 264) has Immunity to Normal Weapons (Immunity, SR3 p. 264) which has the same affect againt most things a mundane character can do. A force 4 materialized City Spirit with 8 points of Immunity is immune to attacks from a Light Machine Gun (power 7), but can be affected by a Heavy Pistol (power 9). Go figure.

Your characters should not have Hardened Armor. This means that the goon with 10 points of armor still has a TN of 2 to resist an attack. If he stands out in the open and is shot by a Guard Captain (Submachine Guns 6, Combat Pool 6+, Smartlink) then the Guard Captain can easily get 10 successes on his 12 dice vs TN 2. The goon will need 9 successes vs. TN 2 just to stay alive, and 12 successes to avoid taking a Serious wound. The Guard Captain will then take his second simple action, doing another Burst from the SMG. With these standard rules your goon will soon learn (or his replacement character will learn) that he has to take cover, dodge, hide in shadows, etc.

While the magician is sustaining the spell the Magician is at +2 for all success tests. This makes the goon more useful and the magician less useful. A fairly reasonable trade. If the magician wants to avoid sustaining it he can purchase and bond a Sustaining Focus. At 1 Karma and 15,000 or 30,000 nuyen for each force point of the Sustaining Focus (and thus per point of armor), this armor gets to be very expensive. And while the Sustaining focus is active it can be targeted by a Manabolt from either the Physical or Astral Plane which can damage or destroy the object (SR3 p. 176, right column, about 2/3 of the way down the page). If every 6th adventure or so the Sustaining focus gets blown up that's a lot of Karma and Nuyen in expenses.

An Armor Spell glows. So either the character walks around getting the attention of every guard and cop, or the magician has to cast a spell into the focus and physically place the sustaining focus the goon character at the start of every battle for it to be effective. (SR3 p. 191 top left paragraph). Standing by the goon character and casting a glowing spell is likely to trigger the first rule of Shadowrun. "Geek the mage first."

Just to clarify, the rules on Magic in the Shadows p107 for Great Form Nature Spirits:

So a shaman can have multiple spirits, as long as all but one of them are great forms. Again, you can only be in one domain at a time, and thus only have one normal nature spirit bound to you at a time.

As mentioned, you need to equal the number of successes on the casting test. Invisibility is just fine at Force 1, as most PC mages will get more successes than most NPCs have Intelligence to resist with.

It blows the spell completely. By some interpretations (including mine), the guard wouldn't even realize that the goon was supposed to be invisible in the first place.

~J

I've run Etiquette like this in the past, and it worked well.
For every specific group you want to be good at talking to, you buy the skill.

E: Go Gangs 3
E: Law Enforcement 2
E: Yakuza 4

I'm sure this doesn't float everyone's boat, but it worked pretty well and got rid of that "why am I just as good at fitting in wth a group of medical doctors as I am with dealing with the Ork Underground as I am at talking to the Humanis Policlub?" stuff.

Also:

Nope.

SR3 pg. 195
Invisibility ...
Invisibility afffects the minds of viewers. Improved Invisibility affects technological sensors as well.

I just incorporate various Knowledge skills when using Etiquette.

Imp invisibilty hides the recipient from thermographic and vision. Ultrasound works off of sound waves. If you want to null that one too, you can use the silence or stealth spells. But Ultrasound has nothing to do with light spectrums, which is what invisibility is all about. It's sound waves.

Reasonable-ish. My approach is to just allow every net dodge success to move someone one meter further from the blast center (this also means it's easier to dodge a grenade if it isn't specifically aimed at you).

Why stop them?

~J

I wouldn't stop them, per se. But eventually, if they continue the practice, they are going to attract attention, if not from the law, then the people who actually buy this stuff. Have Tamanous and their underworld buddies pay them a visit, and either offer them a job (we could use some new "talent"... of course, if you fail, we could also use some new parts, too) or have them attacked (muscling in on our turf, buddy!). Or perhaps they "harvest" the wrong person (that was a senator's son! Slummin' in Pullayup with his no-good ganger friends... you are so fucked) and draw the ire of very powerful individuals. There are so many possibilities here, and it can be a major plothook (I've long weaned my players off the practice because of the trouble they've gotten into).

Also, be sure to restrict the 'ware that can be taken. Cybernetic replacements like Cybereyes are fairly easy, but some cyberware is virtually useless outside of the body that it was implanted. Obviously, you couldn't harvest Wired or Boosted reflexes.

Right on. I was having a moron moment.

Saw "technological" and jumped. My bad.

[/QUOTE]
The PCs my players are running are, for the most part, reasonably 'normal' Shadowrunners. Errr... by that I mean an Investigator, a Face, a Media star/shaman, a Covert Ops guy, etc. I have the requisite psychopath PC, but for the most part my players drool with anticipation every time I dangle anyone with body mods in front of them. Its a ghoulish (pardon the pun) habit that these players have gotten into and whenever I mention that the PC might be disinclined to filet a downed sec-guard for his metal they state "We need the money." (Which is a crock because I 'pay' them well and they spend it freely.) I think they just want the 'free' Nuyen and are cheerfully ingoring the fact that whittling on their erstwhile, living impared opponents is, at best, not a 'nice' thing to do.

As others have noted, Armor is far from foolproof. A good Assault Rifle, fired in Full-Auto mode with sufficient recoil compensation should be able to generate a damage code no amount of armor can handle. If you're using the Cannon Companion, you'll find a properly prepared burst-fire shotgun can similarly shred through protections, and of course APDS/AV ammo makes armor half useless.

Beyond that, there are other options:

1) Poison, particularly gas. A gas grenade loaded with even just a simple Neuro-Stun agent will teach that goon humility in a hurry.
2) Mages, Spirits, and other Awakened enemies. They can dispel the Armor, or worse, use an attack like Manabolt to circumvent it altogether.
3) Nasty security measures like nanofilament tripwires. I personally don't like using these without warning, but if a player's getting arrogant and walking head-on into danger, I guess I could see it being justified.

Is he using Great Form Spirits, or normal ones? A normal spirit has to be summoned in the same domain you intend to use it in, for the most part, and that means on-site security (particularly watcher spirits or elementals patrolling the area) have a good chance of noticing a Astral Woodstock on the premises and going on alert. Even worse, the Astral Security could alert the meat kind, and the shaman could find himself interrupted mid-summoning and half-conscious from drain by a Corp-Sec team interested in an explanation.

Even in other situations, drumming up a small army of Great Form Spirits - or even just a single normal one - won't necessarily go unnoticed. An area may have spirits or paranimals native to it that won't appreciate the astral intrusion. There might be a resident shaman (or gang, including a shamanic member) who's very protective of his turf. A player shouldn't always be harrassed for summoning, of course, but do it now and then and he'll be less likely to call on supernatural assistance when he doesn't really need it.

Taken in the context of your other questions, I'd first advise you up the level of magical/Astral security you use in your games. A security mage here and a bound elemental there can make a world of difference when it comes to keeping mages from running roughshod over the competition.

A few specific challenges that Manabolt can't necessarily overcome:

1) Security drones, either piloted by a security rigger or just set to mow down anything that crosses their targeting reticules, Mitsuhama Zero-Zone style. Manabolt is completely useless against drones and...
2) Vehicles. Have those Mafia goons use a modified vehicle as a weapons platform when they're doing their hit, with polarized windows to block line of sight.
3) Enemy mages can alocated dice to Spell Defense, Shielding, or Reflecting to make Manabolts more difficult or even impossible to land reliably.
4) Paranimals, trained as guards or just angry roaming beasties; many of them have high enough natural Willpower to no-sell an average mage.
5) Combat Drugs. There are a few Combat Drugs that give a bonus to Willpower, this will give your street gangers, rent-a-cops, and other low-class threats a more reasonable chance of surviving without breaking suspension of disbelief.

Remember, Manabolt should work more often than not. As long as your mage finds himself having to choose between taking Drain to land the spell successfully, or risking a good chance of not landing it at all (or having to fire it at a lower Damage Level to avoid Drain while still landing it reliably) you're probably giving him about the right level of challenge.

As far as 'stripping' cyberware goes, just remember a few things:

1) Used cyberware will be a lot less valuable. It's also difficult to sell, meaning the characters will most likely have to work through a fence who will take a (majority) price cut. They're unlikely to get more than 25-30% of the book price.
2) A lot of cyberware can't be salvaged without medical facilities, a trained professional, and a lot of time; it's unlikely the characters have access to all these things under circumstances where others won't mind them ghoulishly carving up murder victims. Even sleazy street docs have their line in the sand.
3) Related to the above, some cyberware and all Cultured-grade bioware is basically useless to anyone other than the person it was made for. In other words, it has no inherent street value unless it's being sold for scrap; and the bioware can't even be used for that. It's a hobo dinner at best.
4) A lot of cyberware is going to be destroyed or damaged beyond repair in the process of making the person who owned it more compliant in giving it up. I seriously doubt you're going to shoot someone to death without trashing their wired reflexes or muscle replacement cyber. If their crap was still working, they probably wouldn't be dead.
5) Most of the cyberware is illegal to possess or sell. Killing someone and carving it out of them certainly doesn't help matters. These sorts of actions are likely to attract Lone Star, as well as any groups in the area that sell cyber (either reputably or through underground channels; that means the Yakuza could get upset as easily as Yamatetsu). They're also muscling in on the racket of groups like the Tanamous ghouls and various street gangs. They may reconsider the value of the cyber they're ripping out of people when they see how much they have to pay for it in dead teammates and other hassles.
6) Collecting corpses takes time. Dragging them around takes effort. If your characters are killing security guards and getting away with their bodies and aren't finding it to be a strain, you probably need to up the speed and ferocity of Lone Star response or other back-up. Their first concern upon gunning someone down should be getting away before the ass-kickers arrive, not finding a cooler to stick their head in so it doesn't go bad.
7) A lot of Johnsons aren't going to hire runners who do gratuitous damage (ie, mass murder), attract unnecessary attention by pawning incidental 'loot' (corpses and their contents), and otherwise jeopardize the secrecy and success of a run for the sake of pocketing extra cred. They could easily find themselves blacklisted for 'professional' jobs and stuck running street-level crud where the opposition can't afford any cyber for them to steal. Or worse, attract the attention of a Johnson who needs a group of patsies for a set-up...

Whew. I never realized there were so many reasons not to be a cyber-ghoul before I actually stopped to think about it. Carry on.

Yah. They take the obvious stuff- eyes, limbs, ears. That helps because although level 5 Biotech makes them a 'Professional' I drew the line at what is basically a paramedic being able to untagle Wired Reflexes. That helps a bit.

Having said that, I would not object (and here I am musing to myself) if a PC was to spend his hard earned Karma and develop a skill set such as Surgery (Cyberware Removal). They'd have to set up a shop or place to do this and buy medical equipment, but as a character development idea ("Congrats! You're now a Shadow Doc!") its not bad. Hmmm...

I disagree with this, considering how well "wired" you have to be in order to gain the benefits from it (as befits the Essence cost), but this is a subjective estimate that will vary from campaign to campaign; certainly, I'm not going to disparage how others run their campaign. In our campaign, you have to be a Cybertech doc and own a clinic to remove cyberware without damaging it in many cases (although some parts are easy to "extract", like the aforementioned cybereyes). Our explanation of Wired Reflexes comes down to a thorough physical wiring of the spinal cord and the motor/pre-motor cortices (cerebellar adjustments are done with Move-by-Wire), and since each of these are unique in every individual, it is impossible to transplant them from person to person without counting it as brand-new cyberware.

Actually, the incredulity was that they weren't just extracting the eyes...

I'm being practical (and cold-blooded). Eyes fit in a ziplock in the pocket. Heads must be carried in a bag/bucket at the side, and interfere with any slaughtering interruptions on departure.

Use a Remington Roomsweeper, with only two shots and the ability to do a "Short Burst" using both of the shots at the same time.

Pop Quiz! What is the appropriate way to deal with something overpowered?

A. Nerf it until it's equal to other options, ban it if it's not worth the trouble.
B. Change the entire campaign world so that it revolves around the effects of this one overpowered thing/action.
C. Threaten to use it against your players unless they stop using it, but give no explanation for why the characters wouldn't use an effective rules-legal tactic.

Answer: A!

D: Do nothing rules-wise and NPCs behave normally and use what they normally use.

oh sure, apologize to him

Great ideas. I am not sure what "Nerf it" means, however. (Unless that means fudging dice rolls because I would NEVER do that to merely make my players enjoy a hard won fight. Never. Nope.)

It appears that I may have screwed up mightily where armour is concerned. I shall cover an example in raw meat and throw it to you to devour and excrete.

A - Normal human (Body 4) wearing a 'Lined Coat' SR 3 pg 284= 4 points of ballistic. A guy decides to shoot him at random with a Predator (9M) and (because this is an example) hits 'im. 2 Successes.
That makes the Body save TN of 5 (9M less the 4 points ballistic= 5) He rolls his 4 Body dice and prays for a pair of 5+ rolls. Say he gets 5,5,3,3. Thats a hit plus 'half' a stage. He takes an 'M', but not enough saves for an 'L'

B - Same guy, same situation, BUT he's got 'Armour' (the spell) on him at level 4. That bumps his effective armour rating to a big 8 ("Armour spell is compatible with all armour types and adds its rating to the rating of the physical armour being worn.") Therefore our boy is just trying to avoid the 'Rule of One' to smile before shooting back unscathed. Basically hes a tank unless someone start shooting bursts or uses a BFG on him.

Please correct my math/failure-to-grok at your leisure.

A) Actually, in this case, the attacker's 2 successes stage things up to a potential 9S, but the defender's successes stage it back down to 9M - not sure what you mean by "half a stage"?

B) In this example, the damage before the "tank" tries staging it down is still 9S, which means he still needs at least 6 successes to stage it down to nothing.

I can tell you from personal experience (my main character happens to have 8 points of ballistic armor) that it certainly doesn't allow you to just ignore the enemies with heavy pistols - not if you want to live...

Nerf is the brand name of a line of foam weapons. To Nerf a weapon is to reduce its deadliness.

It only works that way in melee. In ranged combat successes cancel before anyone stages anywhere.

~J

Hmm. Well, I'm still not sure what the "half a stage" was supposed to mean in this context, since the example used even numbers of successes. (which means things effectively work out as I described them)

The 'nerf it' advice is suggesting that you adjust the rules in YOUR game so that the shotgun (or whatever it is that is overpowered) is no longer so overpowered that it unbalances the game.

Haha. Just using a post as a reference point for my idiocy. Picked one of the two at what amounts to random chance. On all the other message boards I frequent, the "quote this post" button is on the bottom of each post, so I screw up here all the time.



Another note: Thanks to everyone that has posted reminders on how to keep harvesting in check. If you forget to impose the stress and street value it gets ridiculous in a hurry.

Not exactly. The successes on a ranged attack test are compared-- you add the attackers successes, and remove the defender's, before you determine the final damage code.

So, it works like this: The attacker shoots, and scores 2 successes. Normal Guy tries to dodge, and fails-- no successes. He goes to a Damage Resistance test against a TN of 2, and gets 4 successes.

We now compare totals. The attacker got 2, and the defender got 4 (zero from the Dodge test, and 4 from the Body test). Two of the defender's successes negate the attackers, so he's got a net of 2 successes. That's enough to stage down the damage once, to Light.

Based on this, your first example was off-- the defender would have taken a Moderate. Armor is useful, but only if you've got the Body dice to back it up.

So, if you want to challenge the tank, just have sharpshooters go after him. They can use light pistols; all they need to do is rack up a good number of successes. If we reuse your example, suppose the attacker got 6 successes. With a body of 4, the defender is *going* to take a Serious, if not higher, regardless of his armor rating!