 Google Earth, Sharing SR related placemarks |
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 Nov 29 2005, 11:27 PM
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#26
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd  Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473  |
Oh, I wasn't asking for them. I just think it's a cool idea. Like I mentioned in the main SR forum, I don't use a lot of canon locales.
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Dec 1 2005, 04:38 AM
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#27
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
Part of the reason (at least in the SR history) for the sudden explosion of growth in Seattle is the mass migrations from the mid-west and Canada due to most of the surrounding states/provinces being now NAN land. Imagine the non-native populations from Alberta, BC, Oregon, etc... millions of people suddenly moving into the area in a period of less than 5 years!
Another note: Corporate enclaves. Many corporations would have bought up land in the big expansion and everything surrounding would have developped: Industrial, commercial, residential, all to support the corp and it's subsidiary companies. To get an accurate picture of what Seattle should be like, take the two Seattle Sourcebooks, SR3 and SR4. Work out corporate enclaves (which may or may not appear in the population ratios) and large chucks of areas where refugies and the SINless reside. You're probably looking at a total population of all the Seattle Metroplex reaching over 100 Million. Just my two cents. ;) |
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Dec 1 2005, 04:48 AM
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#28
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
HAHAHAHA
That's close to, or more, than the entire NAN population. Wacky! |
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Dec 5 2005, 03:15 AM
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#29
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
As another Seattle Native I've noticed the rather strange Geography in the Source Books. Just why is Dante's Inferno located where the Federal Court House is today?
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Dec 5 2005, 05:10 AM
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#30
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
They moved?
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Dec 5 2005, 05:07 PM
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#31
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Well that's actually perfectly plausible. I've just always been amused by some of the "changes" in Seattle Geography.
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May 11 2006, 07:45 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
Love Google Earth and have used it a fair bit to show players where they are.
Did anything happen with this? Is the GE file available from anywhere? And would anyone want to host files for other cities? |
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May 19 2006, 10:35 AM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 2-January 06 Member No.: 8,120 |
Actually, there is both a Soundview Drive West and a Brookside Way West. They are west of the Curtis Junior High School in University Place. |
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May 19 2006, 03:20 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
I have also made the population 30,000,000. Makes way more sense. Following the map, the rubber suit would be under water. I assume that it should be 81st Street and Upper Ridge Road, instead of 18th Street and Upper Ridge Road. Ok, I'm having trouble. Underworld 93 is listed under Puyallup, and it is Puyallup by today's standards. But, FASA changed the boundries, so now what was Puyallup is Tacoma and the club would be in Tacoma by the address. So, should I just move the club into Tacoma, or change it's address to make it in Puyallup? What do you think? |
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May 19 2006, 04:20 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Oops, delete this.
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May 19 2006, 06:39 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Oops, delete this.
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May 20 2006, 01:29 AM
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#37
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Well, Tacoma in SR was physically leveled and the land was shifted about, so I'd say the address was "pushes" back into Puyallup - perhaps on top of a few other roads. That's how the underground came about. They didn't dig down, they landfilled over.
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May 21 2006, 04:50 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
This is what I have so far.
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.ph...art=&PHPSESSID= |
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May 22 2006, 05:50 AM
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#39
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 12-May 06 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 8,551 |
From the SR3 intro:
And later
So, there's a third of the worlds population down, so the population of Seattle would be well down from what you would expect it to be. Even so, I agree that the numbers quoted in the sourcebooks for Seattle seem rather low when you think about it. |
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May 23 2006, 11:28 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
Thanks Rajaat99. Good stuff.
I agree: many of the population stats I've seen for various places seem too low somehow. In a cyberpunk setting like SR I like my big cities (Seattle, London etc) to be thoroughly overcrowded. Still, you can reconcile the stats with the crowding with the following logic: the population might be lower, but in many places it's crowded into much smaller areas, what with all the corp enclaves, private estates, no-go zones etc taking up space. I hope the populations have grown a bit by 2070. Orks going at it like rabbits, perhaps? On another note, anybody else wondered why Seattle's Ork underground isn't permanently flooded? It wasn't till I looked at Seattle in GE that I realised quite how little room there was between sea level and the ground level in downtown. I guess it's permanently getting pumped out, or something. |
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May 25 2006, 01:16 AM
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#41
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
It probably does flood often, but the Ork Underground in 2050 is located at Seattle 2000's ground level. Seattle Downtown, Tacoma, and (IIRC) Bellevue were built "up" sometime after 2000 to better suit corporate interests. The old Seattle was simply buried under landfill, which is what those escaping the warehouse fires uncover after tunneling beyond the sewers. |
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May 25 2006, 02:19 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
I've updated the map and added more locations and descriptions.
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.ph...art=&PHPSESSID= |
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May 25 2006, 05:48 PM
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#43
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Hmmm... well, I already posted a link in the CAD program thread in the Srun area. But, I just noticed this google earth thread here. Anyway, have anybody tried this program I just learned about recently? http://sketchup.google.com/
It's compatible with google earth apparently, and well, folks can model the different arcologies and we can put them into the map. Hmmm... Anyway, just kinda interesting. |
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May 26 2006, 01:28 PM
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#44
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Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
That actually happened after the 1889 fire. It's certainly possible that it happened *again* in Shadowrun canon, but I don't recall reading that anywhere. If you go to Seattle, that's why all of the streets slope rather steeply down towards the sound. It's a man-made grade that they put in so that the plumbing systems would work properly. Seattle's underground exists today and you can take tours of it. In quite a few locations, the underground is in active use. |
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Jun 25 2006, 06:35 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 24-September 03 From: Albany, OR Member No.: 5,643 |
I agree. Massive immigration, corporate interests, and the like. I think 100 million is a bit extreme, but we are on the same wavelength.
It's been a while since I was researching this, but if I remember correctly, my problem with that one was that those two roads don't intersect as the address suggests.
I'll never accept that. Most of the downtown Tacoma area is settled on the side of a hill that goes up to 350 feet. Also, 129.7 km˛ (50.1 mi˛) just removed? No way. As for the Underground, that's a joke. It's listed as running from Everett to Tacoma, a distance of 50 miles straight, or over 60 miles following I-5. The elevation of the land changes drastically along the way. The real Seattle Underground is only a few feet below the ground, and this is where the orcs started, right? Consider as well that the real Seattle Underground would be under the Arcology, if you go with the canon location of that building. Following the canon location of the arcology, the base of the arcology is either at sea level, or over 100 feet up. If they have it at sea level, it will 'dig' into the downtown area approx 100 feet, destroying any 'underground' that existed.
Assuming that they built over it, the arcolgy would still be placed right on top of it. Considering the size of the building, it's supports must be deep. In addition, unless there was a drastic demographical change in the city's layout, warehouses would either be buried by the arcology, or found south of it, and far away from the original Seattle Underground.
Those are not man-made grades. Seattle is built on a hill. Several, in fact. In just the downtown district alone, heights range from 100 to 200+ feet above water level. "Skid Row" was actually called Skid Road, a real road in Seattle. They went up the hill, cut down the trees, and sent the logs skidding down what is now Yesler Way (which at it's height is 225 feet above water level). I have issue with many things in SR canon, and I play with a group that feels equally a strong about it. We use the real names of the stores because we actually shop there. Every one of us can name someone they know that works for Boeing. We have an excellent bus system because no one wants to walk up and down all those damn hills. Anyhow, this has been a great discussion. I've had a blast catching up on all the replies that I missed over the last several months. =) |
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Jun 28 2006, 04:06 PM
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#46
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 2-January 06 Member No.: 8,120 |
As far as I know, they do. |
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Jun 29 2006, 01:33 AM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 24-September 03 From: Albany, OR Member No.: 5,643 |
Then I am mistaken. Thanks for finding it for me. I just created the Renraku Arcology using Google Sketchup and it looks so silly. The exact dimensions listed in the Seattle Sourcebook list it as being taller than it was wide, however, if you look at the art, it is roughly equal. Using the exact dimensions listed in the Seattle Sourcebook, the Arcology huge. After having put it into Google Earth, and comparing it to the game art, I realized that one or the other was very wrong. Looking at the art, the Arcology is several time taller than the nearest buildings. Looking at it in Google Earth, you can see that writer of the dimensions did not communicate well with the artist, as the art does NOT communicate the extreme height of the building (969 meters!?), nor does the map agree with the dimensions. I placed the arcology according to the map, which shows that the Southwest corner of the Arcology would be at 4th and King. That was my starting point. The dimensions show that it doesn't go nearly as far to the north, or to the west at the map suggests. http://rezcook.homeip.net/renraku.html So, once again, I'm back to my original statement that the game designers placed things arbitrarily. |
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Jun 29 2006, 09:51 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
Good effort though! I was thinking about trying this. May I suggest that the area on the map may be greater than the actual perimeter of the SCIRE. There may be a park- along the waterfront perhaps- taking up some of the edge of that land? Also seems to me that it's the height that's wrong. Too high. (The writers can't be expected to get everything right! I'm betting they never foresaw anybody trying this!) I'd take the art as the better guide here. It may be, I suppose, that there is (or was) a mast on top of the actual pyramid. Gives you an excuse to shorten it a little on aesthetic grounds anyway. Any chance that this can be added to Rajaat99's file at some point? |
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Jun 29 2006, 11:48 AM
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#49
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Target Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 23-May 06 From: California Free State Member No.: 8,597 |
Well, the Renraku Arcology should be massive, compared to 20th-century Seattle buildings. It's a kilometer straight up into the sky, but buildings in Shadowrun are much much much bigger than they are now. In the Sixth World, it's supposed to be the ninth-tallest building. The Aztechnology pyramid in Seattle is 300m tall. The Aztechnology Pyramid in Tenochtitlan is 700m tall. Truman Tower in Chicago is supposed to be an astounding 1400m in height. For comparison, the Petronas towers are 450m high, the Eiffel Tower is 325m tall, and the Sears Tower is 442m to the top floor, 527m if you count the honking huge antenna. The Space Needle is only 184m tall. So I think any current Seattle buildings would be Lilliputian in comparison to the Renraku Arcology. Well, it should be massive compared to 2050-era buildings too. Neighboring buildings are supposed to be completely in its shadow, requiring some funky light manipulation, so that they aren't permanently in the dark.
The placement and dimensions of the Renraku Arcology on the map seem accurate enough to me, when I use Google Earth. I started with the southeast corner at 4th and King. I ran a line 650m north, so that would be the northeast corner, and ran a line 780m west, so that would be the northwest corner. Complete the square and get the perimeter of the Arcology. The address of the Arcology is 1 Renraku Ave, aka 875 2nd Ave, which seems to be in the center of the northern edge of the building. In the Seattle Sourcebook map, E. Adler St is more or less parallel to the northern edge, and when I sketched out the perimeter in Google Earth, E. Adler St. is still parallel to the northern edge. According to the map in the Seattle Sourcebook, the Glass Onion at Madison and 2nd is right next to the Arcology, and in Google Earth, Madison and 2nd is right next to the northern edge. I will grant that the map shows it running a bit further west. According to the map, Spring St. should intersect near the northwest corner, and from what I see on Google Earth, Spring Street and Renraku Arcology don't intersect. Here's an image of what I did in Google Earth. I personally would take the art with a grain of salt. The artist is usually given directions like "Draw me a huge pyramid shape building," not "Draw me a 650m x 780m x 969m building, and have it in correct proportion to 2006 Seattle buildings". |
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Jun 29 2006, 12:04 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
It's certainly massive in bulk.
Well I'm with Nindaru that the proportions he came up with look wrong (to me)- too steep sided. I wonder if it'd look any different using your footprint? Rajaat99 would have to relocate "Elliot's" to have this fit with his GE file. |
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