Austere Emancipator
Dec 30 2003, 02:20 PM
No, ain't got a page. I suck at websites.
No famous characters either, yet... I will do most of the lower-level ones, though, once the rules are finished. Doing anything like the Elminsters and Halasters is purely an amusement, though. The Harlequins and Lofwyrs of the FR world...
GoldenAri
Dec 30 2003, 02:33 PM
I was actually thinking about what the Drizzt stats were.
Austere Emancipator
Dec 30 2003, 02:51 PM

I bet you were.

I'm almost done with canon SR adept powers. Once I integrate a decent number of D&D Feats and Class abilities into them, I just might humor you.
[Edit]Canon powers done. Drizzt will have to wait until tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow, since I'm getting too tired to think straight. I keep having to check simple +/- math a dozen times.[/Edit]
Valium
Dec 30 2003, 06:54 PM
@Austere: Are you planning on including cyberware into your conversion? If not, how will you keep the balance between magical and non-magical characters?
I'll post my conversion notes (very much a work-in-progress) here just for the heck of it (copy/paste, little editing, typos included):
- cyberware will be replaced by Soul Metal (better name?), a dark source of power granted by unknown entities to metahumanity. It is powered by the user's soul (Soul stat, read: Essence) and merging ("installing") with too much Soul Metal will lead to insanity and corruption (and maybe, who knows, greater power?). It can only be "merged" by someone with magical power (metatechnique Merging) and proper skills (Medicine/Surgery [Soul Metal] maybe??). Generally, I just like the sound of it

. Lots of planning/tweaking needed.
- adepts divided into monks and tattooists.
- magicians remain almost the same, with followers of Hermes (Scholars), and Shamans (also druid types).I love the tattoo magic part in MitS. Scholar is a more suitable name for hermetics in the fantasy genre. Any comments/ideas are welcome.
Austere Emancipator
Dec 30 2003, 07:41 PM
QUOTE (Valium) |
Are you planning on including cyberware into your conversion? If not, how will you keep the balance between magical and non-magical characters? |
My version will not even attempt to keep a balance between Awakened and Mundane. Just like it's virtually impossible to get a high-level character in D&D without any Supernatural abilities, I assume everyone to become Awakened at some point at least.
At the beginning, Awakened and Mundane characters are balanced by the very high costs of being an effective magician/adept -- low karma, higher costs than standard, and buying magic abilities can be done bit-by-bit in a system that is almost directly copied from Sphynx's advanced BP rules for Awakened characters. Many magic abilities are less effective than in canon SR. And then there's the variety of methods mentioned in this and the earlier thread (Drain, Background Count in many places, etc).
However, there will be the Flesh Grafts mentioned earlier in this thread. I might be adding something more like Cyberware, but it is unlikely. Somehow, merging machines with flesh just doesn't sound like FR. There is no mention of anything like that in any of the FR books, or even D&D books. It wouldn't really fit.
Tattoos will certainly be there, with unique tattoo magic (a la Planescape: Torment) in addition to the Tattooing metamagic.
Of course, changing my system by adding any amount of Cyberware and changing the chargen system is very simple -- it won't take anything but slapping on any cyberware you wish (although you have to keep game balance in mind), and changing the chargen is even simpler. Still, the system is tailor-made for Forgotten Realms, and suits similar game worlds best (ie medium-high fantasy, minimal steam-punkishness).
Fortune
Dec 30 2003, 11:37 PM
QUOTE (Valium) |
...cyberware will be replaced by Soul Metal (better name?)... |
Ghost Rock?!?
Lilt
Dec 31 2003, 01:46 AM
QUOTE (Fortune) |
QUOTE (Valium @ Dec 31 2003, 05:54 AM) | ...cyberware will be replaced by Soul Metal (better name?)... |
Ghost Rock?!?  |
No, just in case people don't want to know what ghost rock is:
[ Spoiler ]
Ghost Rock is (AFAIK) tortured souls given solid form. It also burns extremely violently with a loud screaming noise (and tends to explode quite readily). IE: Not the sort of thing that you want to merge with. At all. Ever.
Phaeton
Dec 31 2003, 01:48 AM
QUOTE (Lilt) |
QUOTE (Fortune) | QUOTE (Valium @ Dec 31 2003, 05:54 AM) | ...cyberware will be replaced by Soul Metal (better name?)... |
Ghost Rock?!?  |
No, just in case people don't want to know what ghost rock is: [ Spoiler ] Ghost Rock is (AFAIK) tortured souls given solid form. It also burns extremely violently with a loud screaming noise (and tends to explode quite readily). IE: Not the sort of thing that you want to merge with. At all. Ever. |
...Would make a great cortex bomb, though.
Lilt
Dec 31 2003, 01:50 AM
QUOTE (Phaeton @ Dec 31 2003, 01:48 AM) |
QUOTE (Lilt @ Dec 30 2003, 08:46 PM) | QUOTE (Fortune) | Ghost Rock?!?  |
No, just in case people don't want to know what ghost rock is: [ Spoiler ] Ghost Rock is (AFAIK) tortured souls given solid form. It also burns extremely violently with a loud screaming noise (and tends to explode quite readily). IE: Not the sort of thing that you want to merge with. At all. Ever. |
...Would make a great cortex bomb, though. |
It depends on if you really want the person you are implanting the bomb in to go mad first. I'm pretty sure having a significant amount of ghostrock around does that (which is probably why mad scientists make ghost-rock powered gizmos in the first place).
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 04:53 AM
Here come Maneuvers&Styles. Note that they are under construction, and not every one of them might make sense without some additional ruling that occurs elsewhere and that I haven't posted yet. They make extensive use of the basic combat rules posted some messages back. The file is now ~120kb, so posting it here isn't going to be possible...
MANEUVERS
RULES
Acquiring
For every odd rank (1/3/5/7/etc) in a skill, a character can learn one maneuver for 8 Karma. For every even rank (2/4/6/8/etc) in a skill, a character can learn a maneuver for 4 Karma. A character can only learn maneuvers for one rank lower than he currently is at. Eg a char with Aikido-4 but no Maneuvers can only learn 1 maneuver for 4 Karma (for rank #4) and another for 8 (rank #3).
Using
Unless otherwise mentioned, maneuvers do not stack with each other nor with any combat options. Maneuvers are directly linked to the skill for which they were learned, and they cannot be used with other skills. Some maneuvers, like most Mounted Combat maneuvers, are not actions themselves and can be modifiers to skills othen than Riding/Mounted Combat. For example: Spirited Charge allows +1 Power when attacking with any melee combat skill from a running mount, and stacks with e.g. Jousting for no TN penalties, +1 Power when attacking with a lance from a running mount.
MELEE COMBAT
Blind Fighting
-2 Visibility Modifiers. Works with combat options, but not with other maneuvers.
Blind Swing
Only during Rage. +2 Power to attack. Provokes Intercept.
Close Combat
Works with UC&P, removes the melee attack TN modifer from it. -1 Power.
Close Shield
Works with UC&P. Halves the Shield penalty from it.
Counter-Attack
Instead of normal attack, if before char's next action gets more or equal successes while Defending against an attack, can counter-attack with Offense Pool.
Disorient
+1 TN to target's actions per net success, max +2, for 1 CT.
Evasion
Works with Full Defense. -1 TN for Dodge tests during Full Defense.
Focus Strength
Complex action. +1 Power to next melee attack. Cumulative up to Willpower/2.
Focus Will
Complex action. +2 Willpower to next contest of wills vs materialized spirit. Cumulative up to Willpower.
Full Offense
+1 Damage Level, -1 TN to enemy attacks until your next action.
Ground Fighting
Removes penalties from being prone. Works with Full Defense.
Herding
If net successes or tie attack, target has Inferior Position for 1 CT.
Kick Attack
+1 Reach. -1 TN for enemy attacking the kicker until kicker's next action.
Kip-up
If knocked prone, Quickness (6) test to get back up as a Free Action.
Multi-Strike
Halves penalty for attacking multiple opponents with same Offense Pool dice.
Shield Bash
On one's own action, once per initiative pass, can switch between 3/5 and 4/4 TNs for shields.
Silencing Attack
Called Shot renders the target to utter a sound for (net successes) CTs.
Sweep
As Knockdown Attack, but does inflict damage, albeit at half Power.
Vicious blow
-1 Power when doing Physical with Stun weapons instead of half Power.
Whirling
Half the number of opponents for penalties to defending against all with same Defense Pool dice. +1 TN to own attack.
Zoning
If net successes or tie on attack, no damage dealt, but -1 TN on next attack.
RANGED COMBAT
Close Shot
Does not allow an Intercept when firing in melee. +1 TN.
Long Shot
Increases Medium, Long and Extreme ranges by 25%.
Rapid Reload
Crossbow (6) test to halve base reload time. If fails, double base time.
Sharp Shooting
Target Number penalties when using Called Shot 1 point lower.
Zen Archery
Complex Action to focus on a shot, -3 TN. Stacks, max modifier = Willpower.
MOUNTED COMBAT
Deflect Attack
Can use melee combat Defense Pool to defend the mount against attacks.
Jousting
No TN penalty for attacking with a lance while mount is running.
Mounted Lancing
Complex Action to take aim with a piercing weapon while mount is moving towards target, -1 TN. Doesn't stack.
Spirited Charge
+1 Power of all melee weapon attacks from a running mount.
Superior Balance
Can wield any melee weapons in mounted combat.
Tall in the Saddle
-1 TN on Mounted Combat checks to Dodge for a mount.
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 05:15 AM
The benefits/penalties and maneuvers for canon SR martial arts styles are almost always the same in my system, so I won't post the modifiers or maneuvers for them. However, I will post them with the names with minimal fluff.
Can learn maneuvers at any time. Eg can raise Hafted Weapons to 6 first, then learn 3 Maneuvers for 12 Karma.
Close Combat, Evasion, Full Offense, Ground Fighting, Herding, Multi-Strike, Sweep, Vicious Blow, Zoning
MARTIAL ARTS STYLES
Unless otherwise mentioned, the style is for the Unarmed Combat skill.
Aikido, Jujitsu
Jujitsu originates from the Yellow Sea archipelago, being used by imperial soldiers for over 2000 years. Aikido is a
more recent version of it, only some 200 years old, directed even more to self-defense, to be taught to civilians.
Arnis de Mano, Kali
Originates from Southwestern Zakhara, nearly 8000 years old, not many practitioners in Faerun. Kali is a Chultan
martial art with similar movements, probably offshoot of Arnis de Mano from about 3000 years back.
Battle Prowess
A martial art created by templars of Tempus some 800 years ago and taught exclusively by them to other faithfuls.
Edged, Hafted or Polearm style. +1 die during the first CT of self-initiated combat. -2 dice to Full Defense.
Close Combat, Focus Strength, Full Offense, Herding, Multi-Strike, Sweep, Vicious Blow, Zoning.
Beast Claw, Dragon Claw (Dragon Claw can also be an Edged Weapon style)
Beast Claw was created by and is tought exclusively by and to People of the Black Blood, lycanthrope Malar
cultists. Dragon Claw isn't based on this, but was created by the Cult of the Dragon only some 100 years ago.
Claw bracers "default" to Beast Claw at no modifier. +1 die when using UC&P or Full Offense. -1 die when using Full
Defense or Subduing Combat (-1 Full Defense and Disarming with Edged Weapons Dragon Claw).
Close Combat, Focus Strength, Full Offense, Ground Fighting, Multi-Strike, Vicious Blow, Whirling, Zoning.
Bladesing
Possibly more than 20,000 years old, created in the ancient elven realms. Drows do not practice this, except for
surface followers of Eilistraee. Taught only by and mostly to elven bladesinger-specialists.
Edged Weapon-style (single shortsword -- claymore, no shield). +2 dice when using Disorient or Multi-Strike. -2 dice
UC&P and Knockdown Attack.
Counter-Attack, Disorient, Evasion, Focus Strength, Herding, Multi-Strike, Whirling, Zoning.
Bow
Can learn maneuvers at any time. Eg can raise Bow to 6 first, then learn 3 Maneuvers for 12 Karma.
Close Shot, Long Shot, Sharp Shooting.
Broken Way
The martial art of the Broken Ones, a monastic order of followers of Ilmater. Around 500 years old, it is taught in all
monasteries of Ilmater to anyone who shows potential.
Simple Action Focus Will, +2 dice with Subduing Combat. -1 to attacks during the first CT of self-initiated combat.
Blind Fighting, Close Combat, Counter-Attack, Disorient, Evasion, Focus Will, Ground Fighting, Whirling.
Carromeleg, Sun Soul
A flowing, dance-like martial art, in many ways the unarmed counterpart of bladesinging. Taught more freely, but still
very rarely to non-elves or outsiders. The Sun Soul way is taught by the Sun Soul order, especially followers of Sune
within the order, and is rather recent at perhaps 100 years of age.
Dark Moon
Taught in monasteries of Shar, the way of the Dark Moon monks has been copied by many wanna-bes, like many
thieves' or assassins' guilds in major cities.
Maneuvers work with chakrams. +2 dice using Disorient. -1 die when using Knockdown, -2 dice Subduing Combat.
Blind Fighting, Disorient, Evasion, Focus Strength, Full Offense, Herding, Kick Attack, Zoning.
Edged Weapons
Can learn maneuvers at any time. Eg can raise Edged Weapons to 6 first, then learn 3 Maneuvers for 12 Karma.
Close Combat, Counter-Attack, Evasion, Full Offense, Ground Fighting, Herding, Multi-Strike, Sweep, Zoning.
Ever Watchful
The Way of Helm is taught in temples of Helm rather freely. Only about 200 years old, it is quite popular especially
with humans of the Sword Coast, Cormyr and Dalelands.
Shield style. +1 die when using Full Defense. -1 die in any CT where the character has moved.
Close Shield, Evasion, Kip-up
Hafted Weapons
Can learn maneuvers at any time. Eg can raise Hafted Weapons to 6 first, then learn 3 Maneuvers for 12 Karma.
Close Combat, Evasion, Full Offense, Ground Fighting, Herding, Multi-Strike, Sweep, Vicious Blow, Zoning
Hin Fist
Created by the halflings of Luiren, this has started spreading with the influx of halfling adventurers from that distant
realm into the Heartlands. Freely taught, but masters are few. Not liked by the big and burly.
+1 die when using Full Defense or UC&P. -2 dice when using Knockdown Attack.
Close Combat, Counter-Attack, Evasion, Focus Strength, Ground Fighting, Herding, Whirling, Zoning.
Karate
Designed as a way to get over "no weapons" laws on the northern shores of the Yellow Sea almost 5,000 years
ago, it is freely taught freely if only one can find a master.
Kung-fu
Slowly developed over the last 4,000 years in the Shou Empire, northeastern Kara-Tur, the "skill" is practiced mostly
by travelers from those parts, although recently a few schools have opened in Waterdeep and Athkathla.
Long Death
Practiced by the monastic order of Long Death, it is not truly a single martial art, and only named by outsiders. Only
taught by and to members of the order.
+2 dice when using Full Offense. -1 die when using Full Defense.
Disorient, Focus Strength, Focus Will, Full Offense, Kick Attack, Multi-Strike, Vicious Blow, Whirling.
Loyal Fury
Created by paladins of Torm, it is taught to all followers of Torm, Tyr and Ilmater who are willing to take part in the
rigorous physical training of the path of the warrior in a temple of Torm.
Edged, Hafted or Polearm style. +1 die when using Counter-Attack or Full Defense. -1 die to UC&P.
Counter-Attack, Evasion, Focus Strength, Focus Will, Herding, Multi-Strike, Sweep, Zoning.
Muay Thai
A kickboxing martial art originating from the peninsula of Kara-Tur parting the Yellow sea from the Celestial Sea,
some forms of Muay Thai are now taught in Amn, with one famed school in Athkathla, though masters are very rare.
Ninjutsu, Fire Knife
Developed for use by the spy and assassin clans in the Yellow Sea area, this martial art is jealously guarded by the
clans, and outsiders can only learn it by learning from the (few living) rogue ninja.
Orc Smash
Encompasses the variety of fighting styles embraced (and appropriately named) by devotees of Gruumsh.
Hafted Weapons style. +2 dice when using Blind Swing, +1 die using Full Offense. -2 dice when using Full Defense.
Blind Fighting, Blind Swing, Close Combat, Full Offense, Ground Fighting, Multi-Strike, Sweep, Vicious Blow.
Pentjak-Silat
Pentjak-Silat originates from the southern Celestial Sea and is several thousand years old. Masters are very rare in
Faerun, but available at least in eastern and southern lands.
Polearms
Can learn maneuvers at any time. Eg can raise Polearms to 6 first, then learn 3 Maneuvers for 12 Karma.
Counter-Attack, Evasion, Full Offense, Ground Fighting, Herding, Multi-Strike, Sweep, Vicious Blow, Zoning.
Tae Kwon Do
Originates from a far eastern north shores of the Celestial Sea in Kara-Tur over 6,000 years ago, it has spread into
Faerun in the last 300 years, where several martial art schools have hired masters because of the art's aesthetics.
Tai Chi Ch'uan, Shining Hand
Some forms of this ancient martial art from the Shou Empire are more relaxation techniques. A few fames schools
in Faerun. Shining Hand is practiced by the monastic followers of Azuth mainly in Amn, and is unrelated to Tai Chi.
Way of the Arch
Bow style. +2 dice after at least one Take Aim action. -1 die if firing without any Take Aim.
Long Shot, Sharp Shooting, Zen Archery.
Wildcat
Originally taught in Tethyr as a straight-forward, no-nonsense martial art for soldiers, it has then spread northwards
on the Sword Coast, with a new school recently opened in Waterdeep.
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 08:49 AM
F***. The maneuver rules are too difficult this way. I'll change them all so that they are either Instant (no action to use, but can only be used once per Initiative Pass where the character has actions), Permanent (the modifier/benefit/penalty is always in effect), Free Action, Simple Action or Complex Action. A single Free, Simple or Complex Action can never combine two (combat) options or maneuvers unless otherwise mentioned.
This ought to make it clear what stacks with what.
Then I'll add somewhere a "Combined Maneuver" or something, which will allow the character to choose 2 maneuvers to stack that wouldn't normally.
Expect an Edit to the Maneuver message "shortly".
[Edit]Okay, well that lead to a lot of fiddling about in other areas, too, like the Rules section, to make everything more sensible. I can't be bothered to change all those posts above, so I'll just say that the rules are better now, and if anyone wants the rules, just PM your e-mail address to me and I'll send it.
Unless there's some very simple way for me to have the file somewhere on the net so that I can keep it updated all the time?[/Edit]
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 12:40 PM
Right, Adept Powers done. Some will most likely be added, and some changes to the existing ones are bound to happen, but the current list of 43 is likely to represent a huge majority of common Powers.
So, I guess the system is ready for a crack at Mr Cliche. He is likely to change a bit before the rules are final, especially so if/when I add more armed melee combat styles (e.g. a drow fighting style, since drow fighters get a lot of schooling, and it's rather centralized). There are lots of stuff in there that won't make sense from a canon SR perspective -- if you want to find out more about it, send me your e-mail address. Anyway, here he is:
Drizzt Do'Urden, the 20th level Cliche Bitch
CODE |
B7 Q10 S6 C5 I7 W7 R12 E6 M12 Init 3d6+12 CP 15 SP 5 AP 6
EDGES/FLAWS: Allergy (Sunlight, Mild) Ambidexterity Animal Empathy Combat Reflexes Magic Shield-1 (Race Trait, as Shielding Metamagic) Perceptive (Race Trait) Rage-1 Thermal Vision (Race Trait) Cliche Bitch
ACTIVE SKILLS: Bow 1 Throwing Weapons 3 Brawling 4 Hafted Weapons 1 Edged Weapons/Scimitar 7/11 (13/17) Polearms 1 Combat Tactics 7 Aura Reading 1 Centering 6 Divining 3 Sorcery 4 Athletics 6 Climbing 4 Swimming 2 Stealth 8 (12) Riding/Whateverlizard 1/2 Etiquette 4 Intimidation 3 Negotiation 2 Weaponsmithing/Swords 1/2 Animal Handling 5 Navigation 3 Survival 4 Tracking 4
MANEUVERS: Edged: Evasion, Full Offense, Zoning
LANGUAGES: Elven 6 Elven R/W 4 Undercommon 6 Undercommon R/W 4 Common 4 Common R/W 2
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS: Botany 4 Zoology 4 Meditation 6 And lots of misc crap, I haven't read the novels.
MAGIC: Magical Ability, Mana Focus, Magic Point x 5, Astral Perception, Mana Manipulation, Sorcery x 3, Power Point x 5. Hermetic 6th level Initiate Metamagics: Centering, Cleansing, Divining, Masking, Reflecting, Shielding Shed Astral Signature once
ADEPT POWERS: Blind Fighting Combat Sense-3 Improved Ability/Edged-6 Improved Ability/Stealth-4 Improved Reflexes-2 Magic Resistance-2
SPELLS: Effective Magic for Sorcery and Conjuring: 1 ("Magical Power 1") Detect Life-1 Flash-1 |
Uses
Sphynx's advanced magic BP rules.
I would actually give him a few more points of "Magical Power", ie Magic not taken up by Adept Powers (no special "Magical Power" Adept Power required with these rules once you have the magical abilities neccessary to cast spells/conjure spirits), if I ever used the bugger. I'd also give him a host of other spells.
I didn't do gear on purpose, since I haven't got any Magical Items done yet. Should include Twinkie and Icingcake, the überleet Dikoted Katanas of Doom, and He-Man's toy panther.
[Edit]Forgot the maneuvers...[/Edit]
[Edit #2]Started thinking about how D&D levels translate to Karma... D&D experience awards are built so that ~13 "encounters" of the character's level ought to get the party one level. I though 3 karma per encounter for levels 1-4, 4 karma per encounter for levels 5-8, 5 for 9-12, 6 for 13-16, etc. The first level would be what I though I'd give the players at chargen with BeCKS, 225 Karma.
Drizzt is 16th level, which ought to be 1161 Karma by those calculations. The character I posted above is 1073 Karma, plus resources. I rock.

[/Edit #2]
Valium
Dec 31 2003, 06:38 PM
@Austere: You have any interest in posting Artemis Enteris's stats? Drizzt is already a known cliche so why not post his arch enemy's stats?
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 08:55 PM
Well, sure. Pretty bored anyway. Let's get cracking...
2 levels higher than Drizzt, so some 170 more Karma, minus the race thingie, so 130. Almost equal stats, better at melee, less special abilities, more thief-ish skills. Something like this:
Artemis Entreri, the Sociopathic Melee Adept Ninja
CODE |
B8 Q10 S7 C6 I6 W6 R14 E6 M11 Init 4d6+14 CP 11 SP 4 AP 5
EDGES/FLAWS: Ambidexterity Combat Reflexes Fit Perceptive Cliche Bitch Wicked Cool
ACTIVE SKILLS: Throwing Weapons/Knife 4/6 Brawling 4 Edged Weapons/Longsword 8/14 (14/20) Combat Tactics 6 Centering 4 Sorcery 4 Athletics 7 Climbing 6 Swimming 4 Escape Artist 5 Stealth 9 Riding 4 Etiquette 6 Intimidation 5 Negotiation 5 Acting 5 Lockpicking 4 Trapmaking/Disarming 3/6 Weaponsmithing/Swords 1/2 Animal Handling 3 Navigation 2 Survival 3 Tracking 3
MANEUVERS: Edged: Close Combat, Full Offense, Herding, Zoning Throwing Weapons: Long Shot, Sharp Shooting Riding: Deflect Attack
LANGUAGES: Alzhedo 6 Alzhedo R/W 3 Chondathan 5 Chondathan R/W 3 Common 5 Common R/W 3 Illuskan 4 Illuskan R/W 2 Elven 2 Elven R/W 1
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS: Sword Coast Local 5 Meditation 4 And lots of misc crap, I haven't read the novels.
MAGIC: Magical Ability, Mana Focus, Magic Point x 5, Astral Perception, Mana Manipulation, Sorcery x 2 (Detection), Power Point x 5. Hermetic 5th level Initiate Metamagics: Centering, Masking, Shielding Shed Astral Signature twice
ADEPT POWERS: Blind Fighting Fast Climb Improved Ability/Edged-6 Improved Reflexes-3 Improved Sense (Low-light vision) Pain Resistance-3 Quick Draw
SPELLS: Effective Magic for Sorcery and Conjuring: 1 ("Magical Power 1") Detect Life-1 Detect Poison-1 |
That came out at 1223 Karma. 20 Karma over the target, 1203. Oh well... [Edit]Now 1220 Karma, and Drizzt got 5 more (Combat Reflexes), so it's even closer.[/Edit]
Doing lots of near-equal level "melee adepts" isn't going to be much fun in the long run, so I'll probably try something different next.
Req
Dec 31 2003, 09:41 PM
Halaster!
GoldenAri
Dec 31 2003, 09:42 PM
Nah, Halaster is too iffy on his stats. Eliminster is a walking stat machine. Let's see how well the system converts a Chosen of Mystra
Req
Dec 31 2003, 09:57 PM
Or Khelben Blackstaff. That guy rules too. But Halaster is the man.
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 10:09 PM
Something a bit different... Meet Arrk, the not-so-big and almost-wily troll merc:
CODE |
B11(14) Q5 S10 C2 I3 W4 R4 E6 M6 Init 1d6+4 CP 6
EDGES/FLAWS: Dermal Armor-2 (Racial Trait) Fast Healer (Double-strength Quick Healer, Racial Trait) Scent (Racial Trait) Thermal Vision (Racial Trait) Toughness (Racial Trait) Uncouth
ACTIVE SKILLS: Throwing Weapons/Axe 3/5 Brawling 3 Hafted Weapons/Axe 1/2 Edged Weapons/Claymore 5/8 Athletics 2 Swimming 3 Stealth 3 Etiquette 2 Intimidation/Physical 1/2 Negotiation 2 Survival 2
MANEUVERS: Edged: Close Combat, Full Offense Throwing Weapons: Long Shot
LANGUAGES: Shaaran 3 Shaaran R/W 1 Common 2
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS: 27 Karma worth.
GEAR: Claymore, Weapon Focus-1, Spellstoring-4 (currently holding Death Touch 4S), Bonded 12M, Reach 2 Necklace, Catfall-3 x 3 (9 meters freefall), Bonded Chainmail torso (no penalties, B/P/S 2/2/3 covering torso only) 2 Throwing Axes 10M/+1, Reach 1, 10/20/30/40 meters |
Level 2 troll fighter, which ought to be ~297 Karma, +50 for a Troll = 347. This came out at 282 Karma + Resources, which is about right. Proof that a mundane can be tough with these rules... Although he'll probably get adept powers within the next 100 Karma.
Hey, whaddayaknow, it's 0:01AM local time, 1.1.2004.
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 10:11 PM
I can't do the big mages yet. In fact, I rather not do any mages yet, because I haven't compiled my sorcery or conjuring rules, spell list, or metamagic lists. Those haven't even been started yet.
And the really big mages will have to wait even longer, until I get to the Epic Level stuff... Let's face it, canon SR spells just aren't cool enough.
Out of principle, I won't give Elminster stats. He's just a godmoding GMs playtoy.
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 10:50 PM
...like this guy wasn't a godmoding GM's playtoy... Introducing Old Snarl, the Flame of the North, the One and Only, KLAAAAaaaa-UUUUUoootthhh!
CODE |
B472(544)/40 Q12/x4 (fly x 20) S780 C21 I21 W21 R22 E8 M62 Init 4d6+22 CP 25 SP 26 AP 50 ACP 31
EDGES/FLAWS: Blindsight 400 meters (Racial Trait) Bullheaded Combat Reflexes Dermal Armor-72 (Racial Trait) Fast Healer (Double-strength Quick Healer, Racial Trait) Focused Concentration Good Education Immunity: Fire (Racial Trait) Low-Light Vision (Racial Trait) Magic Shield-6 (As Shielding metamagic, Racial Trait) Perceptive Photographic Memory Remain Conscious-5 Scent (Racial Trait) Thermal Vision (Racial Trait) Toughness (Racial Trait)
ACTIVE SKILLS: Brawling 42 Throwing Weapons 14 Siege Weapons 5 Combat Tactics 18 Aura Reading 14 Sorcery/Spellcasting 21/37 Conjuring 16 Enchanting 14 Centering 16 Divining 12 Athletics 30 Climbing 12 Swimming 10 Stealth 15 Etiquette 20 Interrogation 11 Intimidation 19 Acting 9 Negotiation 14 Healing 8 Engineering 5 Bookbinding 10 Chemistry 5 Gemcutting 7 Stonemasonry 5 Tracking 15
MANEUVERS: All available
LANGUAGES: All humanoid languages at least 6 Most languages in the universe at 4 or more
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS: Most. About 1500 Karma worth, maybe.
MAGIC: All of it.
ADEPT POWERS: Blind Fighting Combat Sense-3 Delay Damage-2 Improved Reflexes-3 Improved Senses (Hearing, Taste, Smell, Flare Compensation, Sound Dampening, Ultrasight) Missile Parry Pain Resistance-9 Quick Strike Spell Shroud-18 Sustenance Traceless Walk True Sight-16
SPELLS: Most of them, but not many over Force 18. |
Or something like that. That's without gear, and he's gonna have lots. Also has Dragon Powers, but that's among the things I haven't done yet.
[Edit]Klauth has been my personal favorite ever since the last D&D group fragged with him. We stopped playing the D&D, and started SR again, in a situation where the group escaped inside the Silverymoon mythal about 5 minutes before Klauth was going to crush them like bugs.[/Edit]
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 11:25 PM
King Obould Many-Arrows, the most powerful Orc leader in the North:
CODE |
B8(9) Q5 S8 C5 I5 W5 R5 E6 M6 Init 1d6+5 CP 7
EDGES/FLAWS: Dermal Armor-1 (Racial Trait) Extended Rage-1 (+1d6 CT Rage duration) High Pain Tolerance-3 Magic Resistance-1 Rage-3 (4d6+10 CTs, +3B +3S, crash equally long, -1Q -1B -1S +1 Q-linked and can't run. Once in 3 hours.) Scent (Racial Trait)
ACTIVE SKILLS: Throwing Weapons 2 Brawling 2 Edged Weapons/Claymore 8/15 Combat Tactics 5 Athletics 4 Climbing 5 Swimming 3 Stealth 4 Etiquette 3 Intimidation 5 Negotiation 4 Leadership 5 Weaponsmithing/Sword 2/4 Survival 4
MANEUVERS: Edged: Full Offense, Herding, Multi-Strike, Sweep
LANGUAGES: Orc 5 Orc R/W 3 Common 3 Common R/W 2 Chondathan 3 Chondathan R/W 1
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS: 50 Karma worth. |
I think the way I've added many Adept Power-like Edges, and allow Edges to be bought during the game, further balances things between mundanes and the awakened. Mr Obould above is 607 Karma + Resources, while my Level-Karma math would put him at 641, and he's certainly a tough mofo. Won't fare well in battle against Drizzt and Artemis, but that's mostly because of the Initiative (unless Obould can get in a good hit to begin with, the adepts can overwhelm him with attacks) and gear.
GoldenAri
Dec 31 2003, 11:40 PM
your doing 10 karma per edge point in game?
Austere Emancipator
Dec 31 2003, 11:54 PM
Actually, the above calculations are at 5 Karma per Edge Point, although that only really applies to the standard by which I translated the canon SR Edges and Flaws into my system. My system does not, as such, support any other system of character generation than a BeCKS-type thingie, so everything is in Karma.
Still, the end result is something closer to 5 per Edge Point than 10 per Edge Point, from a game balance point of view. It does increase the power level of mundanes significantly, especially once well into the game, but since it isn't of much use to awakened characters (Adept Powers do most of it easier, and in my games even mages can access those rather easily), it goes to balance the whole thing.
...
I'm rambling again. I think my point is this: It is in line with the rest of the system in that it is certainly more High Fantasy than Shadowrun, but it's far more Low Fantasy than D&D. A compromise to allow mundanes similar powers as Adepts at an affordable (though not too cheap) price.
GoldenAri
Jan 1 2004, 01:29 AM
Yeah, after I got up and walked away I remember you saying that you used BeCKs
gknoy
Jan 5 2004, 10:24 PM
QUOTE (tanka) |
A sword would probably be two to three times heavier, depending on what kind and who made it. Increase breakage as well. Enough full powered blows on the thing would snap the strongest of swords back then. |
I hope this hasn't been done to death, but ...
Swords were NOT as heavy as almost anyone thinks.

They weren't featherweight, but most were pretty light (3-5 pounds was about the norm, IIRC).
My heavy duty swept-hilt rapier (granted, with a slightly lighter blade) weighs, I think, about a pound or two. (Yes, it FEELS really heavy when you hold it out for a long time tho.

)
On Breakage: I agree, sortof. A well-made sword shouldn't get cloven in two or snapped easily. (Note, not all swords were "well-made".) A pattern-welded sword (like what most vikings had) would be especially durable.
On sharpening: Conversely, swords would need CONSTANT upkeep. Sword edge on Sword edge DID make nasty nicks, notches, and other dullings in the blade. Heck, so did bones. This is one reason that Sword B/R comes in really handy. You might also consider a smithing skill for the big repairs.

Also, remember that swords and armor would need constant oiling and polishing to keep them rust-free. Something to do around the campfire, hehe.
Kagetenshi
Jan 5 2004, 10:32 PM
Imdeed. People who think that swords were 10+ pounds need to try swinging a sword that heavy around for a while.
~J
gknoy
Jan 5 2004, 10:56 PM
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
Also, it seems you don't exactly embrace the idea of abstract melee -- your rules seem to make one "Swipe" exactly that, while my rules still stick with the abstract idea of 1 melee "Attack" being the equivalent of possibly several feints, swings, thrusts, parries and ripostes. |
(Apologies if this has already been done to death -- I'm a week late in hitting the boards

)
I liked the maneuvers for attacks thing... it helps with the cinematic aspect of fighting.

You can't be all dodging and taking cover like we can with firearm combat, since you have to be in their face...
What if we were to use the "position attack" maneuver from Matrix combat? It seems to fit well -- and is an abstract means of embracing a feint or a probe -- since they are both used to give you an advantage in combat...
Maybe we could see an example fight between (a) two equally skilled opponents, and (b) one highly skilled opponent versus a couple less-skilled thugs ("mooks", in HK-action-theater parlance

) as a demo of how the skills/maneuvers/etc work together?
Also ... what's the deal with the first-blood-equals-winning? I read an account once of a team of knights who had the CRAP beaten out of them (multiple arrow wounds, lost eyes, fingers, lots of blood loss, etc), and yet were able to keep fighting and hold a house, or something like that (I'll try and find a link later -- it was an SCA-related article, on the nature of "what is realistic combat?"). On one hand, I like almost all the SR mechanics... on the other, adrenaline and other such things can effectively make fighting with wounds a bit easier than SR mechanics would imply. =/
Read some of the stories of King Arthur -- they would hack each other until both parties were freely flowing blood, and crack skulls, etc, before a fight was over, half the time -- it didn't sound like one person was suddenly a lot less combat effective after they got hit. (Yes, I know it's fiction, but historical fighting has many similarities -- read about some of the knights' duels with AXES (shudder) some time

) Wounds would accrue, but it seemed like (at least for a short time, hehe) adrenaline and willpower helped carry the way...
Maybe we could apply something like that to [medieval]SR mechanics to reflect and allow longer combats.
Perhaps a willpower test (of say, 1-or-2 +your [previous?]wound modifier) when you receive a wound, with successes allowing you to ignore that modifier for as many turns as you get successes?
Couple that with 1 box of stun damage every (4 minus physical damage TN modifier) turns for blood loss / internal trauma (which you could still do the WP test to ignore

), and you have a fight that starts out not-so-bad, with wounds that you can shrug off for a while, but that catch up later (with a vengeance, it would seem!).
Maybe one could also spend combat pool dice (until the fight is over, or for the day, whatever

) to reduce modifiers (or maybe your effective wounded-ness-level?): you might have been wounded, but you're using your willpower and conserving your energy, etc. (Such reductions would count before the willpower test to ignore, but wounds would still cause blood loss ...

)
That could be interesting -- maybe I can whip together a "sample combat" with all this ... say, between Sir Vincent (random name, hehe) and the Black Knight (it's always a Black Knight, isn't it?

) Anyone interested?

Why do all this? Because it's more fun for a player/character to be able to say, "yes, you just stabbed me in the thigh, but FROM DEATH'S DOOR I SMITE AT THEE!!"

(Note: Last Samurai and Robin and Marion are required viewing for this... *winks*)
gknoy
Jan 5 2004, 11:04 PM
Also, Re: Anustere Emancipator's Drizzt post...
Love the "Cliche Bitch".

I noticed that he has both casting and adept powers ... That is, of course, extremely cool -- is that something that player characters would be able to do (with enough karma/etc

) eventually? =D
GunnerJ
Jan 6 2004, 12:04 AM
QUOTE |
Also ... what's the deal with the first-blood-equals-winning? I read an account once of a team of knights who had the CRAP beaten out of them (multiple arrow wounds, lost eyes, fingers, lots of blood loss, etc), and yet were able to keep fighting and hold a house, or something like that (I'll try and find a link later -- it was an SCA-related article, on the nature of "what is realistic combat?"). On one hand, I like almost all the SR mechanics... on the other, adrenaline and other such things can effectively make fighting with wounds a bit easier than SR mechanics would imply. =/ |
Well, to play Devil's Advocate, that could be the result of High Pain Tolerance... knights are pretty fragging tough, being as their whole job description is "melee comabt."
I actually implimented a version of what you were refering to with willpower checks to ignore damage for my medieval SR conversion:
"Characters can attempt to "shrug off" stun damage. This requires a Willpower test against a target number of 4 for light stun, 6 for medium stun, 8 for serious stun, or 10 for deadly stun. Shrugging off stun damage doesn't erase stun damage, it merely allows the character to ignore its effects for (WIL) hours. After this time, the stun effects comes back at a rate of one box every (WIL) minutes. Each attempt to shrug off stun damage past the first has a +1 TN modifier, cumulative. "
I should add that a full night's rest will reset the modifier for further shrug-off tests to zero. I wouldn't impliment this for physical damage, though, because that is not so much pain as dysfunction from having your body disrupted by damage.
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 12:05 AM
I spent a lot of time at the
Museum Replicas Limited Storefront to get the weapon weights right, and rounded up a bit sometimes. Sword weights range from 1kg (the lightest short swords) to 3.5kg (the largest, Reach 2 2-h swords, which are basically polearms), with most being 1.5kg - 2.5kg.
QUOTE (gknoy) |
On sharpening: Conversely, swords would need CONSTANT upkeep. Sword edge on Sword edge DID make nasty nicks, notches, and other dullings in the blade. Heck, so did bones. This is one reason that Sword B/R comes in really handy. You might also consider a smithing skill for the big repairs. |
I intend to make some numerical way of keeping count of weapon (mainly swords) condition. Might be as simple as keeping count of the times it has been used to hit something hard, and after a certain number of times it would lose either Penetration or even Power. I will make sure to mention to the players that the characters do know that the swords should be constantly sharpened and oiled and all. Almost all starting character archetypes I've done so far have a Weaponsmithing skill specialized to their choice of melee weapon.
QUOTE |
What if we were to use the "position attack" maneuver from Matrix combat? It seems to fit well -- and is an abstract means of embracing a feint or a probe -- since they are both used to give you an advantage in combat. |
The matrix combat Position Attack is in fact a more powerful version of the Zoning martial arts maneuver, so I won't be including that as a basic melee combat option.
QUOTE |
Also ... what's the deal with the first-blood-equals-winning? |
It is indeed a natural consequence from the way Shadowrun deals with damage/wounds. It may be that I end up including a Willpower based way of ignoring Wound modifiers, but that would require rethinking certain Edges and Adept Powers, and I'm in the middle of doing the Flesh Grafts, so it will have to wait a while.
If you want "RL" justification for FBEW, you can always think of severe wounds that don't diminish combat effectiveness to be soaked hits.
QUOTE |
Couple that with 1 box of stun damage every (4 minus physical damage TN modifier) turns for blood loss / internal trauma [...] |
That's a bit harsh. Remember, 1 CT is 3 seconds, so that would cause people to lose consciousness due to blood loss after 1 minute with a Moderate wound. I'm not sure yet if I will include a "wound bleeding" rule in the final system, but if I do it may well look like what you suggested, except with "x 10 turns" or "minutes" instead of "turns".
QUOTE |
That is, of course, extremely cool -- is that something that player characters would be able to do (with enough karma/etc ) eventually? |
The way my current rules handle magic, just about anyone can get 1 point of Adept Powers and 1 effective Magic point for sorcery and conjuring, as well as the capability to cast spells from one class (Detection, Combat, etc) for 75 Karma (Magic Ability 25, Mana Focus 15, Mana Manipulation 10, Magic Point 5, Sorcery-2 10, Power Point 10). This can be done already at chargen, or in game (in game it requires tutoring for most steps along the way).
This allows someone to start completely mundane, and then start using all their Karma on gaining magical abilities. It also allows custom sets of magical abilities. Once you've got craploads of Karma (Drizzt doesn't quite qualify for that yet), you might as well get every possible magical ability, which basically makes you a Magician's Path Adept/PhysMage, with full Adept abilities and full Mage abilities.
Magic will still have to be split between Sorcery/Conjuring Magic and Adept Magic, and the costs are immense (~170 Karma depending on your preferences, plus a lot of initiation to make it worth while).
I might be posting a few test battles between different kinds of foes in the near future. Or I might not.
BumsofTacoma
Jan 6 2004, 10:34 AM
Wold be funny to just send some shadowrunners back in time.......
Oops, you tak strain on your cyberware, hope you can fix it. oops your outa bullets.......
and you said melee and unarmed wasn't you style. mwahahahaha hope you saved some karma to learn sword play!
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 12:06 PM
Dammit! There's just no way you can do a hit location table with a sensible amount of D6s that A) Includes Left/Right distribution of hits with same probability AND B) Allows all low-hits to be at one end and all high-hits at the other for easy "Aim High", "Aim Low" rulings. Argh.
Okay then, from now on, a character's legs are a single unit. They will continue to have 2 separate arms, but, for hit location and armoring purposes, a character's legs are a singe unit. Blah.
Kagetenshi
Jan 6 2004, 01:20 PM
Well, the arms probably aren't an equal distribution in melee. The character's leading arm is decently more likely to be hit than the trailing arm, more so if they're using a one-handed weapon, especially so if they're using a one-handed weapon with a shield.
~J
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 03:32 PM
Blood Red Dawn, a play by Austere Emancipator
Characters:
Bob the Fighter, B5Q4S5C3I3W3R3CP5, Long Sword (Skill 6, Att4/Def4, 6M/+1, Multi-Strike), Medium Shield (Skill 5, +2 Dice, 4L, Evasion), Leather Torso+Arms (9kg, B/P/S 1/1/1), CombatTactics-4
Mook #1, B4Q4S4C3I3W3R3CP5, Handaxe (Skill 4, Att4/Def5, 4M), Small Shield (Skill 3, +1 Die, 3L), Padded Torso (6kg, B/P/S 1/0/1)
Mook #2, B4Q4S4C3I3W3R3CP5, Longspear (Skill 4, Reach 2, Att4/Def5, 4M), Padded Torso (6kg, B/P/S 1/0/1)
Bob is walking along in a generic wilderness area. Suddenly the Mooks spawn out of the shrubbery. Bob was expecting trouble, had weapons at ready, and is not surprised. Combat ensues. The Mooks are on opposite sides of the road, 4 meters from each other.
Init: Bob - 7, Mook #1 - 5, Mook #2 - 6.
1st CT:
Bob rolls his Combat Tactics, 4 dice vs 4: 2,3,4,5. He uses the 2 successes to add 1 CP die. He then moves in on M1 and attacks. He uses all of his Longsword skill on the Offense Pool, saving all Combat Pool and Shield dice to defense. He thus attacks with 6 dice, against a target number of 4 (both have Reach 1, no modifier from walking in melee, no other modifiers). He rolls 1,1,1,2,3,5: 1 success. M1 had not pooled his Handaxe skill dice into Defense and decides to use no CP, so he rolls 3 dice vs 3 (2 from skill, 1 extra from small shield, TN to defend with a shield is 3). Rolls 1,3,9 and blocks Bob's attack with ease.
Mook #2 moves in on Bob and attacks. He uses all of his Longspear skill and 2 CP on the Offense Pool, trusting Bob to continue attacking M1. He rolls 6 dice versus 4 (M2 has 1 higher Reach than Bob, but that only counts against Bob attacking M2): 1,1,2,3,7,10 -- 3 successes (every 6 over the TN is an additional success). Bob decides to use his shield Defense Pool dice against both opponents, taking +1 TN on the Defense roll. This leaves Bob with 5 dice vs 4 (3 from skill, 2 from medium shield, TN is 3 + 1 from defending against 2) and he uses 1 CP for 6 dice vs 4: 2,2,2,5,8,9 -- M2's attack is blocked.
Mook #1 attacks Bob with his handaxe, using all Handaxe skill dice on Offense and using 2 CP dice, for 6 dice vs 4: 1,1,3,3,4,5 -- 2 successes. Bob has 5 dice automatically against 4, and adds 2 CP dice (saving 3 for possible hidden attackers), for 7 dice vs 4: 1,3,4,4,5,8,10 -- easy block.
2nd CT:
Bob shows he means business and uses his Multi-Strike maneuver to attack both targets at +1 TN. He uses all Longsword skill dice on Offense and adds 3 from CP on the attack vs M1. With his 9 dice, the TN against M1 is 5, and he rolls: 1,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,16 -- 3 successes. M1 uses the 3 shield dice and 2 from CP to defend with TN 3, rolling: 2,2,4,5: Bad luck, Bob got 1 net success. Rolling hitloc: 11, Right Arm (-1 Damage Level after DamRes, never under Light, no Overdamage). M1 has no armor there, and resists 6M with 4 Body dice and the last 3 CP dice: 1,3,4,5,7,9,10 -- 3 successes brings it to Light. First blood.
Against M2, Bob rolls only his Longsword dice, 6 vs 6 (4 base, +1 Multi, +1 inferior Reach): 1,1,2,5,5,10 -- 1 success. M2 rolls 4 of his CP dice to dodge against 4: 1,3,8,9 -- dodged.
Mook #2 decides to revenge for his buddy, rolling 4 skill and 1 CP die against 4 to attack Bob: 1,1,2,2,9 -- 1 success. Bob uses only his Shield skill and bonus dice to defend, still at +1 TN for defending against 2 targets, 5 dice vs 4: 1,1,3,4,11 -- blocked.
Mook #1, now acting at 4, attacks Bob with his Handaxe skill dice only, having already used all CP for this CT. That gives him 4 dice vs 5 (4 base, +1 from Light wound): 4,5,5,11 -- 4 successes. Bob uses all his remaining CP on the defense roll with the shield, and thus has 8 (3 skill, 2 bonus, 3 CP) dice vs 4: 1,1,2,3,3,4,4,9 -- 3 successes. Hitloc: 7, Leg (same effect as arm). Bob has no armor there and resists 4M with 5 Body dice: 1,2,3,5,10 -- 3 successes. Bob uses his 1 Karma Pool to reroll the 3 failed dice: 4,5,5 -- Bob soaks all the damage.
3rd CT:
Bob, quite pissed off at M1 by now, concentrates on him with all Longsword skill dice and 3 CP dice, for 9 dice against 4: 1,1,3,3,5,5,5,9,13 -- 6 successes. M1 uses his Shield skill and bonus dice with 2 CP against 4, and dodges with the remaining 3 CP against 5. The 5 shield DefPool vs 4: 1,3,4,5,8. 3 dodge vs 5: 1,4,5 -- total 4 successes. Hitloc: 12, Abdomen. M1 has one armor against slashing weapons there, and Bob's longsword modifies that to 2, so the TN of the DamRes test is 4. The Damage Level starts at S (M base, +1 DL from 2 net successes). M1 rolls his 4 Body dice vs 4: 2,3,4,4 -- Moderate damage.
Mook #2 is starting to get bad vibes, but tries to turn the tide by attacking Bob with full skill dice and 1 CP, 5 dice vs 4: 2,3,3,5,7 -- 2 successes. Bob uses shield skill and bonus dice with 1 CP die, 6 dice against 4: 2,3,4,4,4,4 -- easy block.
Mook #1, now acting at 3 and in serious pain (4 boxes Physical), decides this is the right time to bail. He tries to Break Off Melee. Bob gets an intercept, rolling his full Offense Pool against 4. Bob decides not to use CP on this, which leaves him his 6 skill dice. Bob rolls: 1,1,2,5,10,11 -- 5 successes. M1 has his full Handaxe skill, 4 dice, against TN 7 (base Def TN 5, +2 from wound), as well as his Shield skill and bonus dice and 2 CP dice, 5 total, against TN 5 (base Def TN 3, +2 from wound), and the rest of his CP (3 dice) against TN 6 as a dodge test. He rolls his Handaxe skill: 1,5,5,5. Shield: 2,2,3,5,5. Dodge: 1,4,19 -- 5 successes, so he get's out. He runs his full speed straight away from Bob.
4th CT:
Bob grins evilly at M2, with all his dice in Defense Pool.
Mook #2 runs like hell.
The End. Lower curtain.
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 03:40 PM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
Well, the arms probably aren't an equal distribution in melee. The character's leading arm is decently more likely to be hit than the trailing arm, more so if they're using a one-handed weapon, especially so if they're using a one-handed weapon with a shield. |
Currently, implementing that would be a bit too much of a bother. If you want to, you can try to improve on this. If you can, I'll be sure to use it. The one I have now for melee combat is as follows:
CODE |
3d6 Location Effect 3 Foot -1DL, no OD 4 Foot -1DL, no OD 5 Leg -1DL, no OD 6 Leg -1DL, no OD 7 Leg -1DL, no OD 8 Thigh -1DL, no OD 9 Thigh -1DL, no OD 10 L. Arm -1DL, no OD 11 R. Arm -1DL, no OD 12 Abdomen 13 Hip 14 Chest 15 Shoulders 16 Head +1DL 17 Face +1DL 18 Eyes +1DL |
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 04:46 PM
Actually, Bob should've rolled his Combat Tactics skill in the beginning of every CT. Still, it wouldn't have changed anything, except perhaps lowered his Combat Pool amount by 1 in one of the following CTs.
As an additional note, Bob the Fighter is an actual starting character, created with 225 Karma, and has skills and abilities not listed in this example. The Mooks are generic, average-skilled thugs.
Lilt
Jan 6 2004, 07:51 PM
Why don't you just have a separate 1d6 roll to see if it hits the left or right side of a character? It could be a standard 3/3 split but could be modified modified on the arms to 2/4 to reflect a character's stance.
IIRC it was also reasonably common practice to more heavily armor the shield arm whilst leaving the sword/weapon arm more maneuverable (IE: padded armor or no armor on the weapon arm). Is there any truth in that? I'm working on 2nd hand information here.
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 08:12 PM
QUOTE |
Why don't you just have a separate 1d6 roll to see if it hits the left or right side of a character? |
That'd be one more dice roll. I try to keep the separate dice rolls to a minimum. Hit location needs one, but the sides of a character probably don't. Of course, if you need to know which leg of the target a blow hit, you'd need to roll 1d6 even now. However, with arms there may be a significant difference between the effects of hitting someone in the left or right side. 3d6 with arm sides mentioned is a compromise that suits me, at least until someone can make up better numbers for the locations.
QUOTE |
IIRC it was also reasonably common practice to more heavily armor the shield arm whilst leaving the sword/weapon arm more maneuverable (IE: padded armor or no armor on the weapon arm). Is there any truth in that? I'm working on 2nd hand information here. |
Considering the amount of pictures available where people have more armor on their shield arms than weapon arms, I guess there's some truth to that. Calculating the modifiers straight from armor weight will have to do for me, though. Including more factors into the armor modifier calculations would make that part of the game too complicated for my tastes. Anyway, I just don't know enough about medieval armor to base rules with possibly quite drastic effects on that.
Lilt
Jan 6 2004, 09:31 PM
I suppose you could just shift the Left/Right arm slightly off the center of the distribution if you really wanted it imbalanced. I don't know exactly how the distribution should work, I have never studied the distribuion of weapon blows in melee combat, but I think your system seems fair.
Perusing through
The Palladium Book of Weapons and Armor (the only source on the topic I own) hauberk-style armours (long shirts that give some cover to the thighs) seem common, even more common than wearing armour over the entire arm (although shoulder/upper arm armour is common). Just some things to consider when you make the equipment lists. It's also noticeable that there aren't any left/right imbalanced armour styles in those pictures though so I have no idea what's right.
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 09:37 PM
I'll be sure to add modifiers to allow hauberk-style armors. Before I got the hitloc table done, I wasn't sure if I was going to differentiate between thigh and leg, so I didn't weight/cost modifiers for armor suits that protected one but not the other. Now that it's there, I better do it quick before I forget.
Yeah, if I really wanted Left/Right arm hits imbalanced, I could shift them off-center (that would give 12.5% hits to weapon arm, 11.6% hits to other arm). But it would still require me to put the others somewhere, and it would slightly mess with the aesthetic simplicity currently present in the hitloc table.