Burned Out (5 bp per rating point; max 5 pts)
An Awakened character with this quality has squandered much of his talent, eroding his magical gift through cyber/bioware implants, drug/BTL abuse, or sheer misfortune. Altthough he once had a higher Magic rating, it is now much lower due to loss of Essence. Each rating point of this quality taken gives that character 1 "virtual" Magic point, which has no game effect other than to alleviate the Magic loss normally incurred due to Essence loss (that is, any Magic loss due to Essence loss is taken from the virtual points before it is taken from the character's actual Magic rating). The benefits of these virtual Magic points are only available at character creation, and any virtual Magic points untouched by Essence loss after character creation are lost.
This quality can only be taken at character creation, and it can only be taken by Awakened characters.
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OK, here's the deal. I'm slapping together a burned out mage as a starting character (400 bp), and I just realized that it's difficult to get all the desired cyber, spells, and Magic for such a character on just 400 bp. Plus it's really damn annoying to have to buy 4 extra points of Magic when you're just gonna throw them away with the cyber you're gonna buy. Hence, this solution. Thoughts?
Full Version: Burned Out
I'm sorry, but 'Burned out" and "quality" just don't seem to go together. Maybe it's just me
And, more important: what is that Quality actually good for?
It would let you get cyberware without eating in to your magic for cheaper than buying the magic points and losing them to cyber
Ah, so it's one of those funny Edges that give you back more points than they cost... so it's good for, um, plain cheating. 
I believe that's the basic idea 
excellent *Mr. Burns finger steeple*
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Sep 22 2005, 05:50 AM) |
| And, more important: what is that Quality actually good for? |
Cheap Magic points at character creation so you can take a bunch of cyber without having to spend 30-40 bp on Magic points that you're just gonna loose when you add extensive cyber on later. Basically to make the old burned out mage archtype feasible again.
Or, said in a different way, kicking the mechanics in the hoop for the sake of story.
Edit: Or just plain cheating, I like that too
Bleh. If you are going to play a burned-out mage, you pay for the Magic points. Building up Magic points are expensive. There's a reason for this. I've created several characters with lots of cyberware, enough Magic so they aren't burned out, and enough attributes/resources/skills so they are survivable. It's quite possible.
Now, creating a Technomancer that can do anything else other than the Matrix... that's pretty hard.
Now, creating a Technomancer that can do anything else other than the Matrix... that's pretty hard.
It would be much better if burnout was a negative quality that simply gave good-for-nothing "virtual magic points", lowering the maximum magic value before initiation (maybe coupled with essense loss, effecting those virtual points). That would exclude cyber as the reason, so you would have to get that in addition to this negative quality to flesh out the concept. Trading magic for cyber is already a pretty good deal anyway. This would cover the other reasons for burning out though, and it would give conciderable BP, helping you on your way in making a viable character in exchange for a nasty blow to the growth potential in both magic and cyber.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| Bleh. If you are going to play a burned-out mage, you pay for the Magic points. Building up Magic points are expensive. There's a reason for this. I've created several characters with lots of cyberware, enough Magic so they aren't burned out, and enough attributes/resources/skills so they are survivable. It's quite possible. |
/shrug/ This is the character I ended up with using this quality.
(Note the three house rules we're using so far give you Charisma x3 extra bp for contacts only, let magicians buy Spellcasting x3 spells at creation, and allow you to buy gear with availablity up to 12 at creation).
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[ Spoiler ]
Edit - Added spoiler to save screen space
Itīs just to strange for me to accept it. It really shouldnīt be an advantage to be a burnout.
| QUOTE (mintcar) |
| Itīs just to strange for me to accept it. It really shouldnīt be an advantage to be a burnout. |
I know where you're coming from. Hell, I'm not certain I even like it. Hopefully I'll get to playtest the character this weekend though. If he turns out too beefy due to the little magic he has, he can just be killed off. At which point I'll deny ever posting Burned Out as quality.
| QUOTE (NightmareX) | ||
/shrug/ This is the character I ended up with using this quality. (Note the three house rules we're using so far give you Charisma x3 extra bp for contacts only, let magicians buy Spellcasting x3 spells at creation, and allow you to buy gear with availablity up to 12 at creation). ... |
Out of curiosity...why is the bolded part there a house rule considering you can get avail 12 gear in chargen by the standard rules
| QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 08:06 AM) |
| Out of curiosity...why is the bolded part there a house rule considering you can get avail 12 gear in chargen by the standard rules |
Doh! That's what I get for not reading the entire PDF. I thought it was 8 for some demented reason.
(looks like I've had my obligatory moron moment for the week)
I suppose it's a house rule that a starting character can get a skill group at rating 5, too, because the maximum rating for a skill group is 4.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 22 2005, 08:28 AM) |
| I suppose it's a house rule that a starting character can get a skill group at rating 5, too, because the maximum rating for a skill group is 4. |
No, that's actually a fubar on my part. Thanks for catching it!
Edit - Took care of that little problem.
Hmmm, virtual magic points for less than magic points. I don't buy it. If you want to play a burnout, roleplay your way into it. This just seems broken.
Why do you recon itīs less viable to play a burnout now than it was in SR3 days anyway? You still payed plenty for having Magic 6 then too, you just didnīt have a choice about it.
| QUOTE (Jrayjoker) |
| Hmmm, virtual magic points for less than magic points. I don't buy it. If you want to play a burnout, roleplay your way into it. This just seems broken. |
I'd tend to agree. Purchase magic 6, and then purchase as many of those points as you need for ware and keeping magic 6. Ofcourse its rather a moot point even if someone were to do it since all characters need GM approval and any decent gm wouldn't allow that abuse. So meh...I don't see any problems with the way it is right now without the rule...and the rule well meh...not sure...far too open to abuse i think.
hey heres an idea, if your gonna have cyberware, figure out how much your gonna put in and then get just below that essence in magic points, you dont waste anything and you can build them up normally anyway
| QUOTE (mintcar) |
| Why do you recon itīs less viable to play a burnout now than it was in SR3 days anyway? You still payed plenty for having Magic 6 then too, you just didnīt have a choice about it. |
Not exactly less viable, just more annoying (having to spend so much on Magic when you know your just gonna loose it). Under SR3, you were spending a high proirity/good chunk of bp for 6 pnts of Magic, but then again so was every other magician. Now you're spending 65 bp (assuming you go to 6) on 4-5 Magic points that are basically gone before you get them.
But I totally agree that the quality could easily be abused. As a GM, I'd keep a real close eye on the character to make sure those virtual points disappeared after character creation, and to make sure that the character has a Magic of 1 or 2 tops out the gate. Otherwise he isn't really a burnout, is he?
In any case, yeah, it's probably broken. The only reason I posted it is to see what kind of feedback I'd get, playtesting will tell definitivly one way or the other.
| QUOTE (warrior_allanon) |
| hey heres an idea, if your gonna have cyberware, figure out how much your gonna put in and then get just below that essence in magic points, you dont waste anything and you can build them up normally anyway |
Probably end up doing just that in the future
TECHNICALLY you arent a burnout, unless, ya know, ya burntout and dont have a magic rating anymore.... but thats just a technicality
Needless to say, i dont like it. "virtual" magic points to absorb the loss from cyber? (i know this is againist the "spirit" of this but) So i could take magic 6, take this flaw twice, jack up with 3 EP of cyber, and still have a 6 magic?
I think a less broken way to do it would be this:
If at creation, a mage chooses to burnout, but also takes this quality, he gets a single "virtual" magic point , that works just like a real point, however, no means of increasing you magic score will ever be able to increase youre magic. If anything ever happens that would cause you to loss a point of magic again (including, but not limited to installing ANY new cyber, or loss of ANY a mount of essence) you permanently loss this quality.
In other words, it's more of a "second shot" yes, you'll only be able to cast force two spells, max, but i think it's less broken than what you've written.
Needless to say, i dont like it. "virtual" magic points to absorb the loss from cyber? (i know this is againist the "spirit" of this but) So i could take magic 6, take this flaw twice, jack up with 3 EP of cyber, and still have a 6 magic?
I think a less broken way to do it would be this:
If at creation, a mage chooses to burnout, but also takes this quality, he gets a single "virtual" magic point , that works just like a real point, however, no means of increasing you magic score will ever be able to increase youre magic. If anything ever happens that would cause you to loss a point of magic again (including, but not limited to installing ANY new cyber, or loss of ANY a mount of essence) you permanently loss this quality.
In other words, it's more of a "second shot" yes, you'll only be able to cast force two spells, max, but i think it's less broken than what you've written.
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| TECHNICALLY you arent a burnout, unless, ya know, ya burntout and dont have a magic rating anymore.... but thats just a technicality |
Maybe there is a new path? Path of the Burnout?
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| Needless to say, i dont like it. "virtual" magic points to absorb the loss from cyber? (i know this is againist the "spirit" of this but) So i could take magic 6, take this flaw twice, jack up with 3 EP of cyber, and still have a 6 magic? |
As a GM, I'd personally shred the character sheet I saw that on.
| QUOTE |
| If at creation, a mage chooses to burnout, but also takes this quality, he gets a single "virtual" magic point , that works just like a real point, however, no means of increasing you magic score will ever be able to increase youre magic. If anything ever happens that would cause you to loss a point of magic again (including, but not limited to installing ANY new cyber, or loss of ANY a mount of essence) you permanently loss this quality. In other words, it's more of a "second shot" yes, you'll only be able to cast force two spells, max, but i think it's less broken than what you've written. |
I like, but at the moment I'm leaning toward ditching the whole idea.
Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch!
| QUOTE (Jrayjoker) |
| Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! Ditch! |
Done. Looked it over, tweaked some things on the character sheet, and by doing everything legal except paying that stupid 15 bp extra for the 6th pnt of Magic, it came out fine.
I were wrong, forget I ever said anything. I can be a stubborn git, can't I?
If your walking the path of the burn out, like the SR1 burnout mage I would allow this edge but....
As long as you have points of this edge you may not initiate to gain higher magic level. The first step you would have to take thru role play and spending karma to by up the "lost" BP.
This seems a good edge for people wanting to play burned out characters just seems to me unless there is some limit on inititation or other magical increases its just a rules fudge.
As long as you have points of this edge you may not initiate to gain higher magic level. The first step you would have to take thru role play and spending karma to by up the "lost" BP.
This seems a good edge for people wanting to play burned out characters just seems to me unless there is some limit on inititation or other magical increases its just a rules fudge.
| QUOTE (NightmareX) |
| Done. Looked it over, tweaked some things on the character sheet, and by doing everything legal except paying that stupid 15 bp extra for the 6th pnt of Magic, it came out fine. |
Well technically you could argue that you don't have to pay the 25BP anyway. It says you pay the 25BP to raise it to your natural maximum. And whilst essence loss certainly lowers your magic maximum, you could argue that your new maximum is not the "natural maximum"
@Nightmare:
I didn't mean to imply that i would make the first character ( i would shred it up too) but giving him an example of what COULD be done.
My example was just something i feel is "better" than what he gave, as in more balanced. I'd still rather not see it, but if i had a player ask, neh, beg, it would likely be the choice i'd give them.
I didn't mean to imply that i would make the first character ( i would shred it up too) but giving him an example of what COULD be done.
My example was just something i feel is "better" than what he gave, as in more balanced. I'd still rather not see it, but if i had a player ask, neh, beg, it would likely be the choice i'd give them.
| QUOTE (Jrayjoker @ Sep 22 2005, 08:18 AM) | ||
Maybe there is a new path? Path of the Burnout? |
Yes, this path has existed for some time. It was pioneered by the charitable group The Aleph Society. Remember, the first casting is ALWAYS free.
I think that if one want to play a magiican with a lot of cyber/bioware/whateverware, the so call "burn out mage" way, I'd suggest either to wait for the Street Magic book, that may handle the geasa stuff that existed in previous editions, either to houserule them.
| QUOTE (Earthwalker) |
| If your walking the path of the burn out, like the SR1 burnout mage I would allow this edge but.... |
That was the idea.
| QUOTE (NightRain) | ||
Well technically you could argue that you don't have to pay the 25BP anyway. It says you pay the 25BP to raise it to your natural maximum. And whilst essence loss certainly lowers your magic maximum, you could argue that your new maximum is not the "natural maximum" |
Didn't think of that. Nice
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| @Nightmare: I didn't mean to imply that i would make the first character ( i would shred it up too) but giving him an example of what COULD be done. My example was just something i feel is "better" than what he gave, as in more balanced. I'd still rather not see it, but if i had a player ask, neh, beg, it would likely be the choice i'd give them. |
No prob
As a Burn-out you should never be allowed to initiate, then.
Just like the old rules for 'burning-out'.
Just like the old rules for 'burning-out'.
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