In skimming over yet another recap of the new Emperor o'Japan in SoA, it occurred to me rather abruptly that this kid is textbook Master Shedim. Dies in a horrible accident, comes back unscathed, and promptly changes his personality slightly and begins his newly found authority position displaying spoooooky new powers and an tendency not to be killed(*cough* *cough* ibnelsa *cough*).
Not that there isn't anything particularly bad about that, but you know, they did it already (see snide Ibn Elsa comment above). To say nothing of the spiritual shit-storm we're led to believe that is constantly circling around the Emperor because of his kami status, and Ryumyo the uber-dragon looking over everyone's shoulder it doesn't seem likely he could pull it off.
Still, it sure would seem like another Master Shedim scenario, wouldn't it? Prove me wrong, please.
Comments?
Full Version: SoA: Japan
I'll be the bad guy.
Japan was my least favorite section of SoA. The fact is it deserved it's own book, and one that didn't involve more than twenty seconds of Manga, Anime, or Technofets. I'm tempted to tear this chapter out of my book.
Japan was my least favorite section of SoA. The fact is it deserved it's own book, and one that didn't involve more than twenty seconds of Manga, Anime, or Technofets. I'm tempted to tear this chapter out of my book.
I'm more in favor of Ryumyo's experiment having gone bad and instead of transforming (see DotSW) the dragon, it was redirected and transformed the Emperor (more or less instilling him with Kami status before the declaration).
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| I'm more in favor of Ryumyo's experiment having gone bad and instead of transforming (see DotSW) the dragon, it was redirected and transformed the Emperor (more or less instilling him with Kami status before the declaration). |
Sho nuff, that sounds pretty good, all said and done. Although just to be devil's advocate, I don't think Lung would have let Ryomyo get to the point where he could pull off his ritual (although he could have sabotaged it, thus leading to your course of events...hmmm). Anything to get around another damn Master Shedim.
I was wondering the same thing when I first read it. My conclusion was basically that they wouldn't pull the same trick twice, so it'll be something else completely different. Kinda like trying to guess about Dunkie's will. Fun for a while, but eventually they explain one of the bequests, and you're way off. So just wait for it.
Paul: I kinda feel you on that. They gave a lot more 'feel' material than stuff to work with. I don't have the same level of hate though, as for the most part, a lot of the material we've gotten over the years gives working material, so some 'feel' for the area can help.
K10: that's a pretty neat idea. In my game I just ruled that Ryumyo screwed it up. There'll actually be a plot line that I'm using where Lung works at the same time to syphon off some of the nasty backlash, making it better than it would have been, therefore rubbing Ryu's nose in it even more.
But I like your idea. Think I'll use that!
Paul: I kinda feel you on that. They gave a lot more 'feel' material than stuff to work with. I don't have the same level of hate though, as for the most part, a lot of the material we've gotten over the years gives working material, so some 'feel' for the area can help.
K10: that's a pretty neat idea. In my game I just ruled that Ryumyo screwed it up. There'll actually be a plot line that I'm using where Lung works at the same time to syphon off some of the nasty backlash, making it better than it would have been, therefore rubbing Ryu's nose in it even more.
But I like your idea. Think I'll use that!
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
| My conclusion was basically that they wouldn't pull the same trick twice, Kinda like trying to guess about Dunkie's will. Fun for a while, but eventually they explain one of the bequests, and you're way off. So just wait for it. |
Yes, and yes. Still, I'll confess to being a bit worried at first.
But, I'm sure he was just possessed by an ancestor spirit or something.
And while we're on the subject of the royal family, can anyone refresh me where the "vampire" part of the Vampire Otaku (Technomancer?) Empress Hitomi Shiawase came from? It was a novel called Psychotrope or something wasn't it? Do the Shadowrun novels constitute "canon"?
Yes, and Yes.
| QUOTE (FiveVenoms) |
| Do the Shadowrun novels constitute "canon"? |
Hopefully not.
(other than Dragon Heart, that is)
Sorry Grinder, but they are.
In the beginning of the novel, it talks about how Hitomi was seduced and drained by a vampire who was using her to get to her father. IIRC, there were hints that her father was trying to also use her for research to develop a serum for HMHVV. But I don't think that she is a full on vamp. Could be wrong. Been a while since I read that particular one.
In the beginning of the novel, it talks about how Hitomi was seduced and drained by a vampire who was using her to get to her father. IIRC, there were hints that her father was trying to also use her for research to develop a serum for HMHVV. But I don't think that she is a full on vamp. Could be wrong. Been a while since I read that particular one.
Bug City comes into my mind too. Ok, question answered.
| QUOTE (FiveVenoms) |
| In skimming over yet another recap of the new Emperor o'Japan in SoA, it occurred to me rather abruptly that this kid is textbook Master Shedim. Dies in a horrible accident, comes back unscathed, and promptly changes his personality slightly and begins his newly found authority position displaying spoooooky new powers and an tendency not to be killed(*cough* *cough* ibnelsa *cough*). |
Neat idea but no don't think so.
The attempts have come nowhere near, not "close but magical assistance was close by"
But yes a neat idea.
No fragging way. What ever the emerpor is(and my guess is some sort of free spirit is taking a big interest in him, he has worked for the betterment of his people. not the activity of an undead spirit or a bug
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| he has worked for the betterment of his people. not the activity of an undead spirit or a bug |
He has? From a Western perspective, perhaps. But from the amped-up version of Japanese culture that's in SR, he has literally toppled over decades (if not centuries) of tradition. Welcome by some, but hated by others... and there is no way of knowing whether the (admittedly small) changes he has made really benefits the Japanese people as a whole. He may be a media darling, but the people of Japan (in SR, that is) have always venerated their Emperor from duty and nationalism... that doesn't mean that the Japanese appreciate his reforms or that it helps Japan in the long run.
The Emperor of Japan is a position of "power", not in the traditional sense of a political leader (I'm not sure how much of a figure-head the Sixth World emperor is). It is the power to influence the Japanese people and steer the nation of Japan. That power is a quite tasty target for a spirit (bug or shedim or otherwise... maybe an old emperor ancestor spirit has claimed him). Any benevolent action can be a front for a sinister agenda... just look at the Universal Brotherhood.
I think the Emperor is a Hidden Life vessel, with the most likely suspect being the Wraith.
It is a good thing that he his brinig the troops home,which will take expenses off the home office allowing the government to do more for the Japanese people at home.
Bringing in the meta's is the only generation/cultureal shaking event. The fact he is putting up the Chrystanthumn throne to face the AAA's is actually pretty traditional, Japanese history is full of the emperor stepping in to reset the balance of things. Most recently in August, 1945 the emperor tipped the balance in the council and declared Japan would surrender.
I do not know who the Imperial family would be received in 65 years but barring a major change in their activity I do not see it changing from now. Unlike European Royals who seem to get into personal problems and smeered in the tabloids, reducving people's respect for them. The Japanese Royals do not do this. Thier influence is considerable. A few months ago on a radio program the crown prince commented who he liked a certain American book on child raising he'd recently read. With in a few days of that broadcast the book became a best seller in Japan.
Bringing in the meta's is the only generation/cultureal shaking event. The fact he is putting up the Chrystanthumn throne to face the AAA's is actually pretty traditional, Japanese history is full of the emperor stepping in to reset the balance of things. Most recently in August, 1945 the emperor tipped the balance in the council and declared Japan would surrender.
I do not know who the Imperial family would be received in 65 years but barring a major change in their activity I do not see it changing from now. Unlike European Royals who seem to get into personal problems and smeered in the tabloids, reducving people's respect for them. The Japanese Royals do not do this. Thier influence is considerable. A few months ago on a radio program the crown prince commented who he liked a certain American book on child raising he'd recently read. With in a few days of that broadcast the book became a best seller in Japan.
I can't vouch for every Asian country, obviously, but those that still seem to have a monarchy of any sort, politically powerful or not, still seem to gather a fair amount of respect from the people. In Japan this certainly seems to be true, at any rate.
In Thailand, it is either illegal (maybe) or at the very least, freakishly disrespectful to deface money, since it bears the image of the king. A second hand story I'd heard accounted for some drunken European who lit a cigarette with a 1000 baht bill to show how suave he was. He was subsequently beaten by the Thai bar patrons.
I'd be curious as to how many countries in Asia still have a monarchy of some sort in place, and whether or not they typically gather this amount of respect.
In Thailand, it is either illegal (maybe) or at the very least, freakishly disrespectful to deface money, since it bears the image of the king. A second hand story I'd heard accounted for some drunken European who lit a cigarette with a 1000 baht bill to show how suave he was. He was subsequently beaten by the Thai bar patrons.
I'd be curious as to how many countries in Asia still have a monarchy of some sort in place, and whether or not they typically gather this amount of respect.
Most asian countries do not have a noble class. Between the Japanese, Europeans and communists, not many survived. I think there are lesser nobles in India and the Napalese royals are well, bugnuts.
A few years ago a prince had a falling out with his dad, the king, and proceeded to machine gun down most of the immediate family as they sat down to dinner. A cousin of the gunman was installed as King, and he promtply disolved the legislature, effectively making himself an absolute monarch
A few years ago a prince had a falling out with his dad, the king, and proceeded to machine gun down most of the immediate family as they sat down to dinner. A cousin of the gunman was installed as King, and he promtply disolved the legislature, effectively making himself an absolute monarch
What I do know:
Malaysia has many Sultans and 1 King(an Over-Sultan on a rotating basis and is just a figurehead - maybe they get to act behind the scenes but I wouldn't know). Brunei has a reigning Sultan and it is personal Income Tax-free(woot! a good way of ensuring loyalty among his subjects).
Malaysia has many Sultans and 1 King(an Over-Sultan on a rotating basis and is just a figurehead - maybe they get to act behind the scenes but I wouldn't know). Brunei has a reigning Sultan and it is personal Income Tax-free(woot! a good way of ensuring loyalty among his subjects).
I guess my original point (which is obfuscated, I apologize) is that no matter how beneficial the actions of the Emperor, there is no correlation between his actions and the possibility of his body being possessed by a bug spirit or shedim or any other spirit. He could appear to be a benevolent ruler and still be possessed by a spirit (with or without a sinister agenda). Hell, for all we know, he is possessed by Ryumyo's old ally spirit.
| QUOTE |
But, I'm sure he was just possessed by an ancestor spirit or something. |
Got it in one.
N.B. Bear in mind that all of the following is years out of date and I am no longer anywhere even remotely in the loop about game world development. I stopped playing even before I started writing. Then I stopped writing back in 2001 and no longer follow the game world. (Also bear in mind I'm diverging a bit along the way)
Basically, this isn't gospel. This is history.
I wrote most of the Japan section of Year Of The Comet all those years ago. I can tell you i had a hell of a lot of fun playing Godjiira and laying waste to the metaphorical countryside, stirring some things up. Rargh, smash!!, basically.
The main thing I deliberately tried to do was loosen up Japan so that players could conceivably shadowrun there without being gunned down by zealous racists for being A) metahuman or B) not Japanese .... hence, for example, the reason that I gave the Emperor the hint of some tainted family blood and relatives consigned to Yomi.
As for the ancestor spirit side of things..... I intended the boy emperor to be the hidden life vessel or otherwise protected by a 'rather' powerful ancestor spirit in the form of Tokugawa Ieyasu, or another traditionalist shogun. (Tokugawa is the most identifiable of the Shogun, and the historical inspiration for James Clavells 'Shogun' books and movies, so he was a good hook on short notice.)
That's the reason for the "Spirits alone know why they made such an uncharacteristically bold decision" throwaway shadow comment and hidden hint on p105
You can imagine the upset a virtually unkillable boy emperor with wisdom beyond his years and supernatural powers would create to the status quo and established power structures. Also imagine the conflict between the spirits' extremely strong ultra-traditional values and modern mega-corporate Japan (Values calcified by being a spirit, which I choose to see as personifications of ideals or principles): Isolationism vs engagement. Eastern contemplation vs the hyper-adoption of anything Western.
I would expect that after the first flush of muscle flexing described in YoTC the situation would have calmed down a bit. The megacorps are incredibly powerful after all, and even an uber-powerful free spirit is going to get quickly evaporated. In fact, I wove the bit about the nascent Shiawase alliance via marriage in there to give some power structure the prop the Emperor up.
Why Shiawase? Well, it's the one that exhibits the most traditional typically 'Japanese' values ... on the surface at least - the rotteness beneath the core is something else. But there's that and the fact that Shiawase has at least one free spirit on the board, giving common subtextual motivation.
(That and the fact that I/we wrote the Shiawase section in Corp Download and basically adopted it and made it real - We got all proud parent-like about Shiawase since it was underexplored and we had to compete with all of the other ubermunckins writing SK and Ares. Fricking Lofwyr *grumble*)
Heh, it was all great fun (and stressful)... Writing is a metagame in and of itself. Instead of adopting a PC you adopt parts of the game world and weave it into a story, with the other writers akin to other fractious PCs, all overseen by an overworked Line Developer cum meta-GM.
But anyway, as I was saying I dropped out of storyline involvement very soon afterwards so i have no idea where the plot threads have been taken since.
PS - The Shedim? You're welcome.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| He could appear to be a benevolent ruler and still be possessed by a spirit (with or without a sinister agenda). |
Yeah, just look at Anne Penchyk.
martin: wow, thanks, clarification from the source is such a wonderful thing.
| QUOTE (martingotthard) |
| Got it in one. |
Marty, I've been watching this thread with a bit of glee from my "secret inner knowledge". Then you had to come along and let the cat out of the bag
| QUOTE |
| PS - The Shedim? You're welcome. |
You can take the credit for Japan, but you have to share that
Gosh. I had no idea my plot intuition was so acutely developed. But, that does clear up a considerable amount of the "subtle hints" that sourcebooks mention about the Japan. Hmm. Thanks, Martin. Maybe I'll go back to complaining about something to counter the Immortal Elves now....
| QUOTE (NightRain) |
| You can take the credit for Japan, but you have to share that |
Heya Ray,
Heh, true at that. The Shedim were a group effort, with me, Ray, Shane and Elle.... abetted by lot and lots and lots of caffeination.
I was not yet a freelancer when YotC was released (or was I? I'm not sure... Anyway, I was not privy to Martin's ideas on Japan). My personal take was not that far from the original idea though. It was simply much more contemporary to the emperor. In a nutshell, the powerful spirit that was watching over the boy emperor was the ghost of the boy's secret Ork brother, who died in Yomi. The ghost won't rest in peace as long as the prejudice against metas, that led to his own murder, still prevails in Japan. Not as epic as an ancient Shogun, but it can work too.
Mike
Mike
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| I think the Emperor is a Hidden Life vessel, with the most likely suspect being the Wraith. |
| QUOTE (martingotthard) |
| As for the ancestor spirit side of things..... I intended the boy emperor to be the hidden life vessel or otherwise protected by a 'rather' powerful ancestor spirit in the form of Tokugawa Ieyasu, or another traditionalist shogun. (Tokugawa is the most identifiable of the Shogun, and the historical inspiration for James Clavells 'Shogun' books and movies, so he was a good hook on short notice.) |
Been there, made the post.
| QUOTE (otaku mike) |
| I was not yet a freelancer when YotC was released (or was I? I'm not sure... Anyway, I was not privy to Martin's ideas on Japan). My personal take was not that far from the original idea though. It was simply much more contemporary to the emperor. In a nutshell, the powerful spirit that was watching over the boy emperor was the ghost of the boy's secret Ork brother, who died in Yomi. The ghost won't rest in peace as long as the prejudice against metas, that led to his own murder, still prevails in Japan. Not as epic as an ancient Shogun, but it can work too. Mike |
Actually man, that works way better.
Kudos.
| QUOTE (FiveVenoms) |
| Maybe I'll go back to complaining about something to counter the Immortal Elves now.... |
Assassination?
The 'Accidental' derailment of a high speed maglev out of Tir Tairngire that kills Aithne Oakforest? Always my favoured scenario.
I'm actually happier with the way the Tir is going now, getting destabilized and all, with Aithne out and about, Lugh unseated. Could be fun. Hopefully that will make them more of a behind the scenes plot than the invincible power they have been so far.
Assassination? Bullet Train? Scurvy? The mind reels at the possibilities.
No, I was actually talking about a topic I was bitching about on the Shadows of Asia Review topic (fistandantilus3.0 might remember it), wherein I was going off topic by complaining that I'd like to see something a tad less "Tolkienesque Fantasy Novel" than the Immortal Elves that would serve as a nice counterweight to their all-powerful all-seeing schemes.
Unfortunately, as people pointed out,
a) Shadowrun quite possibly does not need another super-power aside from Great Dragons and the IEs-it would just complicate things.
b) I wracked my brain for a while to try and think of a good, culturally based idea for some sort of superbeing that would also fit into the dynamic of Shadowrun. I realize now that with enough creative license this isn't too hard to do, not a lot of "Asian" myths, etc. that I'm familiar with seem to work terribly well straight out of the box.
c) There already are quite a few examples of mysterious powerful creatures roaming throughout Asia that they DID give. This, however, never quite cut it for me, since at best the entry in a sourcebook will go something like this:
CHIANG MAI
"This small city in Northern Thailand has recently come under the control of a mysterious local monk from the nearby temple Wat Phrathat Doi Suthep who has claimed divine power from the heavens. In the aftermath of the wars in the SE Asian War Zone, mercenaries in the area claim to have seen the monk and his followers wielding magic on a huge scale, repelling their military forces."
• He ain't lyin', chummers. My crew and I were trying to cut through the area to get north when we got pinned down by a ground unit coming south out of the Shan State. Sooner than you could blink, this bald guy in robes and a big-ass spirit started slinging some HUGE mojo-fireballs the size of houses, power blasts ripping through our gear. Glad I made it out alive, although most weren't so lucky...
• Mercenaries RU
Or something like that. So I'll get all excited about it, but sooner or later, you'll get one of these afterwards.
• Ah, I see that old habits die hard. Perhaps our old acquaintance didn't learn his lesson in the last age.
• THE LAUGHING MAN/WORDSMYTH/LADY OF THE COURT/BLAH BLAH ELF BLAH
I would really appreciate it, if just once, somebody off-handedly mentioned something like this, and instead of mentioning in a blasé tone how they know perfectly well what's going on, instead freaked the hell out. When I say "counter" the Immortal Elves, that's what I'm getting at. The IEs are not without their charms, but they barely blink when even Dragons are in their path, so something should exist that they can't just shrug off. Otherwise it tends to get annoying when this cycle of "possible threat, anticipation of something great, IEs casually dismiss it" repeats.
I know I could just rewrite it in my own games, but I actually like the SR Canon as it stands, except for that one tiny detail that rubs me the wrong way.
End rant.
No, I was actually talking about a topic I was bitching about on the Shadows of Asia Review topic (fistandantilus3.0 might remember it), wherein I was going off topic by complaining that I'd like to see something a tad less "Tolkienesque Fantasy Novel" than the Immortal Elves that would serve as a nice counterweight to their all-powerful all-seeing schemes.
Unfortunately, as people pointed out,
a) Shadowrun quite possibly does not need another super-power aside from Great Dragons and the IEs-it would just complicate things.
b) I wracked my brain for a while to try and think of a good, culturally based idea for some sort of superbeing that would also fit into the dynamic of Shadowrun. I realize now that with enough creative license this isn't too hard to do, not a lot of "Asian" myths, etc. that I'm familiar with seem to work terribly well straight out of the box.
c) There already are quite a few examples of mysterious powerful creatures roaming throughout Asia that they DID give. This, however, never quite cut it for me, since at best the entry in a sourcebook will go something like this:
CHIANG MAI
"This small city in Northern Thailand has recently come under the control of a mysterious local monk from the nearby temple Wat Phrathat Doi Suthep who has claimed divine power from the heavens. In the aftermath of the wars in the SE Asian War Zone, mercenaries in the area claim to have seen the monk and his followers wielding magic on a huge scale, repelling their military forces."
• He ain't lyin', chummers. My crew and I were trying to cut through the area to get north when we got pinned down by a ground unit coming south out of the Shan State. Sooner than you could blink, this bald guy in robes and a big-ass spirit started slinging some HUGE mojo-fireballs the size of houses, power blasts ripping through our gear. Glad I made it out alive, although most weren't so lucky...
• Mercenaries RU
Or something like that. So I'll get all excited about it, but sooner or later, you'll get one of these afterwards.
• Ah, I see that old habits die hard. Perhaps our old acquaintance didn't learn his lesson in the last age.
• THE LAUGHING MAN/WORDSMYTH/LADY OF THE COURT/BLAH BLAH ELF BLAH
I would really appreciate it, if just once, somebody off-handedly mentioned something like this, and instead of mentioning in a blasé tone how they know perfectly well what's going on, instead freaked the hell out. When I say "counter" the Immortal Elves, that's what I'm getting at. The IEs are not without their charms, but they barely blink when even Dragons are in their path, so something should exist that they can't just shrug off. Otherwise it tends to get annoying when this cycle of "possible threat, anticipation of something great, IEs casually dismiss it" repeats.
I know I could just rewrite it in my own games, but I actually like the SR Canon as it stands, except for that one tiny detail that rubs me the wrong way.
End rant.
Shadows of Asia does have quite a few dragon/IE shadowtalk references. The SR sourcebooks tend to be either heavy with them or tend to be "IE-lite", and there are fans of both. Some folks like the connections back to the 4th world, and others think it is the worst thing that has happened to the game.
I'd like to point out that if it's a threat that the IE/Dragons are concerned about it, it's not going to show up in the usual Shadowtalk comments. For example, the comments in the entire Aztlan sourcebook.
I'd like to point out that if it's a threat that the IE/Dragons are concerned about it, it's not going to show up in the usual Shadowtalk comments. For example, the comments in the entire Aztlan sourcebook.
I will confess to being more or less oblivious to the Earthdawn setting and related ideas. I may have bought the main book at one point and promptly given up on it, if memory serves.
I mean, all said and done, if I'm going to go ahead and say I don't mind Earthdawn being background for Shadowrun, possibly I should just leave it be. And to be sure there are the Horrors, and other unknown factors roaming around (speaking of Aztlan: Emperor of the Sun? What?), but I was really hoping for something less abstract than Ye Deadlie Creatures fromme thee Multyvyrse. I personally don't feel one should dismiss either the Dragons or the Elves-I mean it's Shadowrun, so I think a healthy dose of magical conspiracy and ancients with convoluted schemes works in its favor. But I've always wanted something of a checks-and-balances in the plot, and the more I learn about Shadowrun's background (thank you Ancient History), the less of that I see.
I mean, all said and done, if I'm going to go ahead and say I don't mind Earthdawn being background for Shadowrun, possibly I should just leave it be. And to be sure there are the Horrors, and other unknown factors roaming around (speaking of Aztlan: Emperor of the Sun? What?), but I was really hoping for something less abstract than Ye Deadlie Creatures fromme thee Multyvyrse. I personally don't feel one should dismiss either the Dragons or the Elves-I mean it's Shadowrun, so I think a healthy dose of magical conspiracy and ancients with convoluted schemes works in its favor. But I've always wanted something of a checks-and-balances in the plot, and the more I learn about Shadowrun's background (thank you Ancient History), the less of that I see.
The dragon's and IE"s are supposed to the balances for each other, which is why there's a dragon on the Tir council. Doesn't always seemed played out that way.
As for ED, I really enjoy the system mechanics, and the world setting. My suggestion would be , don't use the horrors for every little thing (unless the game is for a nethermance, natch). Use them for the dark and the hidden. I like using them to make a more horror-genre (excuse the pun) game feel. But that's just me.
As for something bigger/badder then the dragons/IE's, that's the horrors. But that's also a whole new mess to deal with in SR , and should be used very sparingly IMO.
As for ED, I really enjoy the system mechanics, and the world setting. My suggestion would be , don't use the horrors for every little thing (unless the game is for a nethermance, natch). Use them for the dark and the hidden. I like using them to make a more horror-genre (excuse the pun) game feel. But that's just me.
As for something bigger/badder then the dragons/IE's, that's the horrors. But that's also a whole new mess to deal with in SR , and should be used very sparingly IMO.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.