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Azralon
So a 40 BP Troll drops another 40 BP on Strength:9 during character generation, and another 45 BP to be a Physical Adept with Magic:5. He allocates all 5 of those Magic points to Improved Attribute (Strength):3... the first point takes 1 Magic and the next two each take 2 Magic. He now has a modified Strength score of 12; 9 of those natural, 3 of those from magic.

Let's say now he's earned enough karma to up that Strength score some more. He could do it one of 3 ways that I see (without dipping into implants):

1) Spend karma to raise his natural 9 strength to a 10. But, wait, that'd mean his 3 points of Improved Attribute should now take 6 Magic rather than 5.

2) Not raise his Strength immediately, but in preparation spend karma to purchase Exceptional Attribute (Strength), raising his natural maximum to 11. But, wait again, now his 3 points of Improved Attribute should take only 4 Magic rather than 5.

3) Spend karma to initiate twice and then spend more karma to raise his Magic rating two points, thereby letting him buy one more point of Improved Attribute (Strength).

How to resolve the complications with #1 and #2?
Azralon
By the way, part of my boggle stems from the necessity of tracking his natural and his augmented Strength separately.

It seems to me that you'd have to in case Magic loss eliminated his adept powers. Or, in the case of a cyber/bio troll along the same lines, you'd need to know what his natural Strength is if he ever got his muscle boosting removed but he's been working out and spending karma.

If you spent karma based off of his total Strength, then working out while augmented is literally a waste of karma compared to doing it unaugmented.
Jaid
1) as i read it, when you use the adept power, it effectively boosts your natural score. so, actually, you can't do anything with karma. well, except spend it on other stuff.

2) this would run into the same problem as 1. your attribute is still considered to be above it's racial max, so karma cannot improve your strength anymore. buying that quality would at least boost your augmented max, but that's not going to be very relavent for quite a while.

3) not only is this the simple way, i am fairly sure it is also the only way. you don't have to keep track of augments vs natural with the adept powers, because even for purposes of raising it with karma it is considered natural.
blakkie
QUOTE (Jaid @ Oct 4 2005, 01:37 PM)
3) not only is this the simple way, i am fairly sure it is also the only way. you don't have to keep track of augments vs natural with the adept powers, because even for purposes of raising it with karma it is considered natural.

It certainly solves the problem of tracking it separately as only a complete moron would burn a point of magic instead of increasing to the natural maximum in a mundane way.
Azralon
So y'all are saying that for sake of efficiency, folks shouldn't "unnaturally" amp their attributes until they're already capped the 100% natural way?
blakkie
QUOTE (Azralon @ Oct 4 2005, 01:47 PM)
So y'all are saying that for sake of efficiency, folks shouldn't "unnaturally" amp their attributes until they're already capped the 100% natural way?

I'm saying that someone needs a kick in the happy-sac. mad.gif Either the game designers for have the adept power and physical attribute advancement work that way, or for the people that interpret the rules that way incorrectly. I'm just not sure yet who should get the kick...and my confusion is only amplifying my anger. wink.gif
Raij
QUOTE (Azralon)
So y'all are saying that for sake of efficiency, folks shouldn't "unnaturally" amp their attributes until they're already capped the 100% natural way?

I think that is silly and I would never encourage my adept player to do that. The way I will handle raising attributes with karma will be pre-power-point calculated.

Example..

3 base agi, 2 agi from Enhanced Agility = 5 augmented agi

Now the character wants to raise his agi again.. am I really going to charge him 18 karma to raise it to an augmented 6, when it would only cost him 12 karma to raise it if he didn't have the enhanced ability power?

I will never penalize one of my players in one area (cost to raise base ability) for the sole reason of being particularly strong in another area. (meaning having the extra ability points coming in from the enhanced agility power)

My formula will be base ability raising x3 = karma cost to raise, apply powers after that to further augment
calypso
QUOTE (Raij)
Now the character wants to raise his agi again.. am I really going to charge him 18 karma to raise it to an augmented 6, when it would only cost him 12 karma to raise it if he didn't have the enhanced ability power?

That depends how much you value the rules. According to them, yes. I'm all for house rules though.

Calypso
Azralon
Sounds like Attribute Boost is a less headachy way than Improved Attribute, since the thing turns off.
Raij
Well yes I value the rules, but the rule I value most is the one that says I can alter the rules. cool.gif The above is just my defination of why I will alter this particular one, because it is what I perceive to be a mistake or otherwise silly.

As far as attribute boost goes, I think my adept likes that power a lot more.. I guess he finds it more fun to roll for the att. boost instead of the consistent, lesser bonus.
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