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sureshot
I was wondering if anyone here knows the release date for print version of the book? Or is it too early to ask?
fistandantilus4.0
*cue crickets noise * -- *chirp-chirp chirp-chirp*


Let's worry about getting SR4 recieved first hmmm?
tirsales
The PDF is released. Buy this, print it - and you have a printrelease *gg*
snowRaven
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
*cue crickets noise * -- *chirp-chirp chirp-chirp*


Let's worry about getting SR4 recieved first hmmm?

Welllll... since System Failure preceeds SR4, I think it would be approperiateif it was out in print first
blakkie
Ya, but with them so close together a week or 2 either way isn't really since they are effectively different product lines. Besides it already is out after SR4.
sureshot
So System failure is third edition? For some odd reason I thought it was fourth edition. Is there a matrix supplement for 4th edition?
Ancient History
There will be.
Adam
QUOTE (sureshot)
So System failure is third edition? For some odd reason I thought it was fourth edition. Is there a matrix supplement for 4th edition?

There will be a Matrix rule/sourcebook for SR4, yes. Tentative title is "Unwired"

Note that System Failure isn't a "Matrix Supplement" -- it's an event book, although it deals with events that happen in and to the Matrix, it's not a bunch of Matrix-specific material like the Matrix rulebook or the Target: Matrix sourcebook.

Release date to be announced.
sureshot
QUOTE (Adam @ Oct 9 2005, 06:02 PM)

There will be a Matrix rule/sourcebook for SR4, yes. Tentative title is "Unwired"

Note that System Failure isn't a "Matrix Supplement" -- it's an event book, although it deals with events that happen in and to the Matrix, it's not a bunch of Matrix-specific material like the Matrix rulebook or the Target: Matrix sourcebook.

Release date to be announced.


Cool thanks for the information. What will be the next fourth edition sourcebook then? Granted once again it maybe too early to ask.
Jaid
i seem to recall hearing it will be the magic one... street magic or something like that?

'course, i could be totally wrong.
Fortune
QUOTE (Jaid)
i seem to recall hearing it will be the magic one... street magic or something like that?

It was originally supposed to be Street Magic, but I heard that Runner Havens got bumped up the list.
sureshot
Whatever it turns out to be its good to know about potential releases in any case.
Grinder
I got my copy of SF some days ago, finally. It's nice written and contains some nice pics smile.gif The nly bad pic is the one in chapter 3, where the guy is threated by two... persons. Don't know if they're supposed to be really small trolls or really big orks, but i know that they only have four fingers at every hand. What is it, SR goes Simpsons?
SL James
Exactly how is it "nicely written?"
Synner
QUOTE (Grinder @ Nov 14 2005, 03:48 PM)
It's nice written and contains some nice pics :)

I'd really like to thank the artists who did the Winternight section, particularly the illustrations of the Norns. And thanks for the complement on the writing.
Bullet Raven
half of the art is crappy and cartoony,

the winternight portraits are atmospheric and badass smile.gif

I got my copy on the 2nd or 3rd of this month, it was released on the 31st october (in print). although I actually had SR4 first and didn't find out it was an SR3 book until just before it was released print wise.

I've never actually been into metaplot until I read SF, so now I want renraku arcology shutdown and anything following Deus' plotline.

hurrah!
Critias
I'd like it better if Tir Tairngire got more than a half-paragraph casual aside mentioning of the most important fucking thing in it's history since the nation was founded.
Synner
Considering Tir Tairngire is inconsequential to any of the three main plots and FanPro simply wanted to foreshadow changes in the missing years for those making the shift to 2070 - SF does exactly what it set out to do. In the greater scheme of things it's about as relevant as how Celedyr allowed Erika-Transys to escape from under his claw and got about as much space.
Critias
[ Spoiler ]
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (Critias)
[ Spoiler ]

No one loves them elves, nossirree!

Grinder
QUOTE (SL James)
Exactly how is it "nicely written?"

Uhm, äh. It's good to read? Better? biggrin.gif Especially compared with the SR4 BBB where every 2nd sentence seems to start with "Note,..." - i just like the writing style of SF.
SL James
Fair enough.
FiveVenoms
I'll honestly say I didn't see that coming. I was anticipating you sharpening your claws on "The Tree of Liberty" again, SL James.

Instead I got Critias vs. Tir Tairngire. Fair enough. I'd honestly say that I was vaguely puzzled and as opposed to say, righteous anger, was left wondering what the hell would/did happen regarding the Tir situation. Hopefully it'll come out to the clear sooner or later.
Critias
I just -- obviously -- find the entire thing remarkably irritating. We can get page after page of stuff about what's going on in the Middle East, or Poland, or what-have-you, but Tir Tairngire, sitting right in Seattle's (still considered by most to be the "default setting") back yard, we get worse-than-nothing.

I mean, removing, like, one Shadowtalk post from any other section of the book and replacing it with any more details at all about the Tir situation would have quite literally doubled what we got.
[ Spoiler ]
Grinder
Hoepfully some additional text will be posted at www.ssrpg.com. Or even Holostreets, but i doubt the latter won't be up and running before end of 2006.
Velocity
QUOTE (Critias)
[ Spoiler ]

Are you sure about that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the Ghosts swore Oaths to the office of the Prince, not the individual.
JongWK
Critias:

[ Spoiler ]

JongWK
QUOTE (Grinder)
Hoepfully some additional text will be posted at www.srrpg.com. Or even Holostreets, but i doubt the latter won't be up and running before end of 2006.

End of 2006? Where did you get that date?
SL James
QUOTE (FiveVenoms @ Nov 15 2005, 11:01 AM)
I'll honestly say I didn't see that coming.  I was anticipating you sharpening your claws on "The Tree of Liberty" again, SL James.

Why bother beating my head against that same wall again?
Critias
QUOTE (JongWK)
Critias:

[ Spoiler ]

I know, I know. I'm just venting and irritated at the moment, because a buddy is running about a half-dozen games -- yes, really -- for one or two of four players each, all trying to cover System Failure for us. Small games. Very RP oriented, very detail oriented, very character oriented. Being the token elf, and the general TT fanboy of the group (as well as the player of a...very, very, Tir-oriented character), we decided to work on a story about whatever happened in the Tir. I'm in it, solo. I'm excited. He's excited. We're all excited. We look into SF to see what we're going to work into our story...

And then we got...this.

It's not a lot to work with, y'know?

Is there more, that anyone knows of? Even just an "I wish we could've done this" freelancer version? If so, any chance I could just get a, like, ten-word list of "for" and "against" Princes, or something, so we don't cock it all up in this game and have to go back (sometime, years from now, when some other book hits the shelves) and retroactively fix our current attempt at a story?
Ancient History
The first sixty years after the Awakening has seen the death of at least three Great Dragons. Who says the immortal elves would fare any better?
JongWK
QUOTE
I know, I know.  I'm just venting and irritated at the moment, because a buddy is running about a half-dozen games -- yes, really -- for one or two of four players each, all trying to cover System Failure for us.  Small games.  Very RP oriented, very detail oriented, very character oriented.


That's neat. Try posting a summary of it when you are done. smile.gif


QUOTE
Is there more, that anyone knows of?  Even just an "I wish we could've done this" freelancer version?  If so, any chance I could just get a, like, ten-word list of "for" and "against" Princes, or something, so we don't cock it all up in this game and have to go back (sometime, years from now, when some other book hits the shelves) and retroactively fix our current attempt at a story?


Sorry, I don't think we can really help you with this one at the moment.

Just keep in mind the following facts and reasonable deductions:

- The Tir special forces still seem to exist. For some reason, someone let them loose against Lugh Surehand. Politics, security, personal grudge, or all of them?

- The New Revolution was somehow involved.

- Whatever happened didn't turn the country into a complete mess like Yugoslavia or Rwanda (if so, people would have heard something by 2070).
Grinder
QUOTE (JongWK)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Nov 15 2005, 03:03 PM)
Hoepfully some additional text will be posted at www.srrpg.com. Or even Holostreets, but i doubt the latter won't be up and running before end of 2006.

End of 2006? Where did you get that date?

Out of thin air. wink.gif Judging from the last few times when FanPro tried to hit a release date...
Nikoli
I'm pretty sure I saw system Failure at my FLGS today
Grinder
I have it lying at my desk right now wink.gif But when was the first given release date? Or think of the release date given for SoA. Or LA.
FanPro didn't a good job with release dates being accurate the last few times and they'll have a hard time to convince be that it will become better.
JongWK
Except Holostreets is not run by FanPro. nyahnyah.gif
Grinder
Who runs it?
RunnerPaul
Battlecorps runs it. And I have confidence that their first release will be out before Duke Nukem Forever hits the shelves
fistandantilus4.0
Critias: I was a bit dissapointed by the SF Tir tie in my self. My wife couldn't even find the reference until I showed it to her. Hoping that Runner Havens will cover that soon.

My biggest beef is that SF could have used.. more. If they go in 16 page bundles, I think that would have been about right to fill in the gaps. I was left feeling like I expect someone in the game at the time would: dizzy from the events, not sure what was happening. Hoping for more information. Unfortunately that doesn't make for a very easy way to run a game. I'm hoping the next book out will fill in those blanks, and soon.

All in all, I did like the book. Just seemed a little too cut down to me.
Synner
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Nov 16 2005, 07:08 AM)
I was left feeling like I expect someone in the game at the time would: dizzy from the events, not sure what was happening. Hoping for more information. Unfortunately that doesn't make for a very easy way to run a game. I'm hoping the next book out will fill in those blanks, and soon.

If that's how you felt, then we did our jobs. The first part of the book in particular was intended to convey the chaos of the Crash and a patchwork (and incomplete) vision of events as they unfold.

The second part of the book is meant to ground that patchwork vision in three interwoven backstories and provide you with the tools to run adventures and plots related to the three main story arcs presented therein (and those alone). As far as I'm concerned this section also does exactly what it set out to do.

Finally, there's the last part of the book, which has garnered us the most criticism. The "problem" with it is, it sets out to both wrap up old storylines/dangling plots and introduce new developments that set the stage for SR4's 2070.

The wrap ups are pretty obvious, but the seeding has left some people wanting (specifically, wanting the spotlight on their particular topic of interest). Critias is complaining about the Tir because its important to him, but I've had people mail me and post similar questions on stuff they thought was important such as the unexpected twist in the Lofwyr-Spinrad conflict, how a GD like Celedyr let himself be out-maneuvered after making the same mistake with HKB, what the hell happened to the brewing PPG vs. Japanacorp war in SoA, etc.

When developing this book we knew there was no way we were going to be able to map out all the ramifications of the Crash in the space available, particularly those that were deep-rooted in canon and which would further unfold over the next 5 years. So we stuck with the immediate ones.

Rather than compromising with cramped and equally incomplete writeups of events, we opted to offer teasers/glimpses of where we're taking the other storylines as an incentive for readers to follow up with SR4 setting books (good business sense as far as I 'm concerned). The second goal here was to provide plothooks for those who will undoubtedly prefer to stick in the SR3 timeline for a while (or permanently) and play through the missing 5 years. The choice was to do so without dictating how things actually unfold and so let such GMs have the playfield to themselves - some would appreciate it, some wouldn't.

I'm quite fond of System Failure and for its flaws I think it's got some of my favorite SR writing in some time (particularly the fiction bits).
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Synner)

If that's how you felt then we did our jobs. The first part of the book in particular was intended to convey the chaos of the Crash and a patchwork (and incomplete) vision of events as they unfold.


If that's the case, then good job. Not being sarcastic BTW.

I agree that the book did just what you wanted then. For one, after I'd finished reading it, the first thing I'd said to my wife was "well now I have a bunch of ideas for games from '65-70, where before I was just going to skip ahead." The whole Princess of Monoco/Spinrad engagement had interested me too. Wasn't she supposed to be pregnant back in '64? Did they havea kid, just a rumor, something happen (or d-wait and see)?

Since you were deliberately leaving it vague to draw us on, I'd say god job. It's working. It's annoying, because I'm one of those types that hates waiting for answers. But it's certainly working. Is this going to be the metaplot for the next few years, or will we be getting some to most of these answers in the new few releases? At least a synopsis of what's going on. Not the resolution of course. That'd be no fun!.

And thanks for replying so quickly Synner. Like I said, I'm an impatient kinda whiner. smile.gif
Critias
The problem with being deliberately vague is that there's no telling when or if you guys are gonna go back in and fill out the holes -- which means if we made up our own plugs for those holes in order to run a game, our game is no longer "canon" once the new stuff comes out. For some of us, who game on-line, keeping things canon is remarkably important.

Leaving it vague like that is just enough to get us hooked, make us want to play, and not give us enough detail to play with. Know what I mean?
fistandantilus4.0
Luckily for me, my problem is solved because the game that I'm running is still back in '61 and trying to catch up. So I have some time to wait for those releases. But it would certainly be a problem if mine was more up to date. I feel for ya'. Any idea of when we may be getting some of those questions answered Synner? Or Bull? Or anyone? .. Bueller..?
Synner
I believe that the fact that like, yourself and Critias' GM, people have found that the book quickly spawns numerous story ideas in peoples' minds and character driven roleplaying in their games (for all types of characters from street-level to prime runners) attests to its success. One of the reasons the book is rules-light is to put the focus on the atmosphere and roleplaying opportunities.

I've had mails praising the way Winternight was transformed from a patsie in a great dragon's plots and an apparently difficult threat for GMs to grasp into something pretty scary, imminently playable and scaleable to all levels of play. I'm sure the other writers have had similar feedback with their SF material.

As to the problems of keeping things vague and plans for the forseeable future, all I can add is that as we develop new material in new books we will be following up on the dangling plots whenever the situation presents itself. We will be picking up the strands as of 2070 of course but revisting the past in context.
fistandantilus4.0
Thanks again for the quick reply. Looking forward to the updates when they come.

As far as actual feed back, I think my favorite part was the fiction pieces with Villiers. It was great to attach some personality to the character taht has been around for so long, but only vaguely defined except in some sections of a novel. Plus seeing some of the people around him on the periphery being expanded on (like Cara, from being some pawn in a policlubs scheme and getting her hand shot by Mommy's ex-bodyguard to daddy's little corporate shark. Wondering how taht change came about since only a few years ago, in Corp Download, she was a runner).

I was sad to see some of my favorites go bye bye, like Bloodyguts and Darkfather especially, as well as Diabolique. I was also interested in teh Dodger/Huang run, and suprised to see the Huang really was embezalling and not the target of a well done frame run. Not sure which I would have liked better honestly. I also liked some more presence and cahracter being given to the people on Z-O.

Some of the stunts and sybology Winternight pulled was neat too, like the massive illusion that really served no purpose but to freak people out (althouth they were planning on the sybology actually have an effect), and the falling stars/satellites. I especially liked the bio and nanite weapons like Surtur and Tyris (or whatever the hell the cool freezing one was called. No book handy ATM). I also liked that both Pax and Winternight expected to have the other back stab them, so planned out their own back stabbing.

I also like the corporate shuffle that ensued with the IPO, especially Shiawase. I've enjoyed following the slow changes of Hitomi since Psychotrope, for reasons aI'm not really sure of. Wasn't there some geezer on Z-O that owns 20% of Shiawase that was near death (95 yrs old IIRC) that everyone was waiting to kick it? Or is that MTC? Also, random, but ireally liked the picture of the Ares goons taking down the Cross signs and putting Ares up. Got a good chuckle.

All in all, I liked it. i just hate being left hanging. I'll go whine somewhere else now.
SL James
QUOTE (JongWK)
QUOTE
I know, I know.  I'm just venting and irritated at the moment, because a buddy is running about a half-dozen games -- yes, really -- for one or two of four players each, all trying to cover System Failure for us.  Small games.  Very RP oriented, very detail oriented, very character oriented.


That's neat. Try posting a summary of it when you are done. smile.gif

That will be difficult. It history has taught us anything, it is that it will last until Christmas '07.

Anyway, just as short summary. Critias' character wakes up from a Laes-induced slumber next to his teammates in a darkened house in Renton with a set of clothes, a PDA, and a suitcase full of nuyen. One the PDA, he discovers that he missed a week and that in that time the whole world went to hell, his homeland went through a regime change, and given the fact that he has this suitcase... He may have been involved. He is now attempting to evacuate a dying city in the middle of winter which is still in the midst of a counterinsurgency. He cannot go home because he is afraid that he may be on the wrong side of the regime change, and so he is fleeing into Salish...
Where his archrival and a relative unkown are the only remains of the conflict between warring factions within the Ghosts. The archrival and Critias' PC really do hate each other and everything they embody, but the elf has been ordered to find Critias' PC and the other elf is looking for the archrival and will kill anyone he has to to find the person the archrival is searching for, and Critias knows. Critias' PC is just trying to lay low, but nothing in his life is ever that simple.

Meanwhile, a raid on a building in the Puyallup barrens by Lone Star turns up signs of something awful, and a CSI has been investigating the building for evidence of what happened. Unfortunately for him, the evidence leads back to people who don't care that he works for Lone Star, and once it is discovered that he has anything they are coming to look for him. Just dealing with the building has taken a while because it's just got so much stuff and the character is quite thorough.

A runner is currently going crazy in his apartment, and decided to split when he sees his neighbor dragged through the halls and beaten for no reason. He made it out of the building only to find himself witness to a tactical raid on the neighboring building, and as he flees downtown for Puyallup he has been avoiding checkpoints, looters, and a food riot in Renton being put down by force just to make it someplace safe until he can reach his fixer, who is a psychotic and paranoid (drugs don't help, btw) brit who is of the mind that the world is coming to an end, and who may or may not be implicated in the coup by his association to a Ms. Johnson who was taken into custody by the FBI and whose face was splashed all over what little news is coming out a week and a half after the crash.

A combat decker who was working even more closely for Ms. J and who was given a reprieve after being hunted for three years has lost his get out of jail free card, and while he may be wanted by the FBI he is certainly wanted by his former employer, who just so happens to have access to the decker's best buddy. While the decker is headed out of the sprawl to find and rescue Ms. J, he has been found and released by an army patrol for driving a RV of Doom after curfew, and is being tracked by a spirit while his buddy is hunting him down. With the Matrix down, his livelihood and his most potent power base is gone, and it is getting to him.

Meanwhile, the friend has, as I said, been leading raids and security operations since the Crash and the coup, and has now been approached to find the decker and five other individuals, and bring them back in from the cold. He has set up a team, and when the decker was found, he was put on alert. The patrol let him go, and both of them are on a collision course somewhere in the barrens.

There is another character who is a runner who has been on the run since the Crash after learning of Cross's death and Ares' infiltration of the Seraphim. Not knowing who to trust, or even if her cover was blown, she is currently just trying to survive long enough to know what faction isn't going to kill her in Cross, let alone the threat from Ares and other enemies who she has made over the last several years.

Another part follows a shadowrunner who found out the hard way that in times of crisis, being a dick keeps one alive. His generosity turns out to be misspent as he is holed up in a mafia-run coffin motel until he runs out of food being kind for once in his miserable life, and finds that trying to find food in mid-November in the puyallup barrens is more difficult than most runs he's been on. Just making it to a place that might have food involved enough conflict and difficulty that any concern for what actually happened means nothing. People are doing awful things to survive, and even he is being wary and he's a runner with an AR.

The funny thing is that with the exceptions of the decker and the adept buddy, no one else even realizes how much crap they are facing because of this Ms. J who hired them all years earlier for various run, and that her problems are now their problems, or in some cases, they happen to share the same problem from two different directions. Of course, Ms. J has agendas and conflicts which are also being dealt with in various venues and has plans which specifically go back to the runners and other runners, and just because she's in custody doesn't actually mean she's
powerless.

So... Good times. That's not even everything that's going on, but I can't really explain it without spoiling the story. The ambience that has been created is especially enjoyable though.
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