Somehow I have difficulties matching the classic punk to the typical SR-scenario. Maybe it's the players. So it's time for some new ideas.
I tried cops - works if everybody watched his share of Hooker, Hunter, ....
Now they re-run "Mission Impossible" (1990s version) over here and I got the idea:
Anybody tried an IMF-style campaigne (or something like Bugs?)
Who's there boss? State or corp?
What team would be needed?
What about character generation (money&equipment)?
Open to suggestions,
Birdy
Full Version: This watcher will disintigrate in 10 seconds....
maybe that's because shadowrun isn't actually classic punk at all 
| QUOTE (BitBasher) |
| maybe that's because shadowrun isn't actually classic punk at all |
Speak for yourself. Shadowrun is classic punk if you want it to be. A lot of people turn the game into a Mission Impossible style game, as Birdy suggested, mostly because that's what considered cool by the more vocal group within the Shadowrun Online Community, which happens also to be the youngest part of this community, who have a totally different set of morals, values and frame of reference than the original creators of Shadowrun, and the original creators of cyberpunk. Rebellion exists, but not in the same way as it did in the mid- and late 80s, when cyberpunk had it's upswing, and the concept of Shadowrun got created.
Initially, Shadowrunners were the rebels that lived outside of society's structure - those who fell between the cracks of the system. They weren't just a bunch of high priced corporate mercenaries, doing elite, covert and ultimately dangerous work for anonymous employers. They were people that turned their own anonymity into an asset they could utilise to further their own position in the struggle against the overwhelming power of megacorporations. Ultimately, they became slaves of their employers, discovering that they, too, were nothing more than a cog in the machinations of the corporate world. Not fighting against the corps they raided, sabotaged and uprooted, but merely aiding their corporate competitors.
And this is the curse of the Shadowrunner.
| QUOTE (DV8) | ||
Speak for yourself. Shadowrun is classic punk if you want it to be. A lot of people turn the game into a Mission Impossible style game, as Birdy suggested, mostly because that's what considered cool by the more vocal group within the Shadowrun Online Community, which happens also to be the youngest part of this community, who have a totally different set of morals, values and frame of reference than the original creators of Shadowrun, and the original creators of cyberpunk. Rebellion exists, but not in the same way as it did in the mid- and late 80s, when cyberpunk had it's upswing, and the concept of Shadowrun got created. Initially, Shadowrunners were the rebels that lived outside of society's structure - those who fell between the cracks of the system. They weren't just a bunch of high priced corporate mercenaries, doing elite, covert and ultimately dangerous work for anonymous employers. They were people that turned their own anonymity into an asset they could utilise to further their own position in the struggle against the overwhelming power of megacorporations. Ultimately, they became slaves of their employers, discovering that they, too, were nothing more than a cog in the machinations of the corporate world. Not fighting against the corps they raided, sabotaged and uprooted, but merely aiding their corporate competitors. And this is the curse of the Shadowrunner. |
Funny thing but:
i) The current group played Cyberpunk since it came out and SR since the mid 90s
ii) Average age is 28 with a minimum of 24 and a maximum of 37
SR not classic punk:
It was always advertised as a cross-breed, Cyberpunk with Tolkien Monsters as well as Orks, Trolls and magic. The background is definitly Cyberpunk (the movement, not! the Talsorian Game[1]) with big companies running the show and the individual being used and overwhelmed etc.
Turning into "M:I" (the series!! not the movies)
It's not "considered cool" but as DV8 states it is the way most SR games, both on conventions and in the current group end up. They one remaining difference is freelance vs. official.
Wanting it to be Punk:
We all have jobs (mostly Computer Engineers) and view gaming as a stress reliever. So the "this is the univers - rebell" style is rarely working (We tried). Maybe it's a GM / player thing, waiting for the adventure etc. If so, I'd like some hints how to change it.
What was I looking for:
It's easy to turn the game into M:I. If someone has done so, how did you handle problems like:
Equipment/Cyber: Who pays for it, does the player have to spend BuildPoints for money at chargen?
Payment and Karma?
Equipment availability, exspecially spells?
Birdy
[1]Who's background I consider more believable in some areas. Like politics and company rights.
Part of the reason "SR isn't punk" anymore is that we, as the players, may have lost some of the concept of what punk is. It was easier to imagine global megacorps ruling the world back in the 80s than it is today (well, anymore than they already do). It was easier to see a corporate climate where everyone was going to be a number in a great big machine back then as well. If nothing else, the way people look at jobs (and corporate jobs) has changed drasticly (there's less of a "cradle to the grave" corporate care paradigm than there once was, with people changing jobs every few years). It's harder to play something which you no longer understand.
Maybe punk has gone away? Maybe it's all just a personal thing? Maybe you can only stand outside of the corporate megalith throwing pebbles so long before you realize you can't make a difference.
Even RTS's Edgerunners threw in the towel on the fringe after a few years. By their timeline, by 2025, most Edgerunners had found jobs with corps, or simply dropped out of society all together. It took something big (Cybergeneration) to bring them back. The most powerful image that stuck with me was a little bit in the section on playing Edgerunners in Cybergeneration that was something along the lines of a parent pulling his dusty old armored jacket out of the closet, grabing his Militech gear from a hidden cubby and cleaning the dirt and dust off, and running through some rusty kata before steeping back into the world of resisting society.
You can play SR as punk. Hell, you can play D&D as punk. But the key to something "being punk" has more to do with the players and GMs than with the material itself.
Maybe punk has gone away? Maybe it's all just a personal thing? Maybe you can only stand outside of the corporate megalith throwing pebbles so long before you realize you can't make a difference.
Even RTS's Edgerunners threw in the towel on the fringe after a few years. By their timeline, by 2025, most Edgerunners had found jobs with corps, or simply dropped out of society all together. It took something big (Cybergeneration) to bring them back. The most powerful image that stuck with me was a little bit in the section on playing Edgerunners in Cybergeneration that was something along the lines of a parent pulling his dusty old armored jacket out of the closet, grabing his Militech gear from a hidden cubby and cleaning the dirt and dust off, and running through some rusty kata before steeping back into the world of resisting society.
You can play SR as punk. Hell, you can play D&D as punk. But the key to something "being punk" has more to do with the players and GMs than with the material itself.
Well, as a rather huge Marvel fan, I love the new Ultimate series and it gave me a similar idea. Personally, when we run games, it doesn't seem like the power level of the players is at all common, and most likely, they are (almost straight out of char-gen) about the most powerful characters in the city. Being powerful isn't all that, but if you can attach it to some brains, you got a really good super-hero type Gig going.
I mean, think of how fragile nearly anyone is to an assault rifle carried in the hands of a normal security guard with Security Armour (8 dice to roll, can go full automatic). Especially when working in a team with a supervisor snake-eyeing everything through complex head-up displays in the Security Helmets and in contact with a Security Rigger and his armada of Drones. The 'defense' doesn't need to have characters even remotely as powerful as the players. They got the Tech, so in our games, where magic and cyberware is prevelant, the characters become Super Heroes, often trying to put-down similar power level Villians who use the basic Goon type Security Guard while performing experiments to enhance their body even more.
As I'm sure most of you have taken a look at my character sheet, you're probably aware of the power level our games appears to be at. But, rather than picture it in the mundane level dark-gothic punk atmosphere that the genre was born in, imagine a comic book super-hero type genre. That's kinda how our games seem to go. Yeah, we're bad-ass compared to Joe-Shmoe, but our games revolve around that. We all have a ton of 'Lone Star' contacts, almost like 'Shield' for 'The Ultimates' in the new ultimate marvels. And no LoneStar mage compares to me or Spirit (our Astral guy) just like not a one of them could keep up physically with our Adepts or Sams.
Hell, in my own Magic Group totalling some 80 members throughout this part of the world (12 in my direct group), the only higher ranking Initiate (and I'm only level 3) is the Level 4 Tribal Shaman who has never even been into the big city. And even then, I'm only 1 of 3 Grade 3's, none of which are in my direct group. I've only ever ever seen two higher Grades in our games (other than my meeting the Grade 4 once), one Toxic and one Insect, both which took out large chunks of our oversized group. But as my GM points out, even though there's 9 of us, a group of 6 mundanes in Sec Armour and with Assault Rifles (they tend to also use Flash Paks, and other tech anomolies) can easily keep us at bay if they are set up in a nice defensive posture with good cover, that's why we play good guys. He plays too damn smart for us as players if we try doing anything 'evil'.
Anyhows, didn't really mean to ramble on like that. I think it's a great idea to do MI style of a game. It's worked perfectly for us (though it seems more like Super Heroes).
Sphynx
I mean, think of how fragile nearly anyone is to an assault rifle carried in the hands of a normal security guard with Security Armour (8 dice to roll, can go full automatic). Especially when working in a team with a supervisor snake-eyeing everything through complex head-up displays in the Security Helmets and in contact with a Security Rigger and his armada of Drones. The 'defense' doesn't need to have characters even remotely as powerful as the players. They got the Tech, so in our games, where magic and cyberware is prevelant, the characters become Super Heroes, often trying to put-down similar power level Villians who use the basic Goon type Security Guard while performing experiments to enhance their body even more.
As I'm sure most of you have taken a look at my character sheet, you're probably aware of the power level our games appears to be at. But, rather than picture it in the mundane level dark-gothic punk atmosphere that the genre was born in, imagine a comic book super-hero type genre. That's kinda how our games seem to go. Yeah, we're bad-ass compared to Joe-Shmoe, but our games revolve around that. We all have a ton of 'Lone Star' contacts, almost like 'Shield' for 'The Ultimates' in the new ultimate marvels. And no LoneStar mage compares to me or Spirit (our Astral guy) just like not a one of them could keep up physically with our Adepts or Sams.
Hell, in my own Magic Group totalling some 80 members throughout this part of the world (12 in my direct group), the only higher ranking Initiate (and I'm only level 3) is the Level 4 Tribal Shaman who has never even been into the big city. And even then, I'm only 1 of 3 Grade 3's, none of which are in my direct group. I've only ever ever seen two higher Grades in our games (other than my meeting the Grade 4 once), one Toxic and one Insect, both which took out large chunks of our oversized group. But as my GM points out, even though there's 9 of us, a group of 6 mundanes in Sec Armour and with Assault Rifles (they tend to also use Flash Paks, and other tech anomolies) can easily keep us at bay if they are set up in a nice defensive posture with good cover, that's why we play good guys. He plays too damn smart for us as players if we try doing anything 'evil'.
Anyhows, didn't really mean to ramble on like that. I think it's a great idea to do MI style of a game. It's worked perfectly for us (though it seems more like Super Heroes).
Sphynx
| QUOTE (Sphynx) |
| Well, as a rather huge Marvel fan, I love the new Ultimate series and it gave me a similar idea. Personally, when we run games, it doesn't seem like the power level of the players is at all common, and most likely, they are (almost straight out of char-gen) about the most powerful characters in the city. Being powerful isn't all that, but if you can attach it to some brains, you got a really good super-hero type Gig going. I mean, think of how fragile nearly anyone is to an assault rifle carried in the hands of a normal security guard with Security Armour (8 dice to roll, can go full automatic). Especially when working in a team with a supervisor snake-eyeing everything through complex head-up displays in the Security Helmets and in contact with a Security Rigger and his armada of Drones. The 'defense' doesn't need to have characters even remotely as powerful as the players. They got the Tech, so in our games, where magic and cyberware is prevelant, the characters become Super Heroes, often trying to put-down similar power level Villians who use the basic Goon type Security Guard while performing experiments to enhance their body even more. As I'm sure most of you have taken a look at my character sheet, you're probably aware of the power level our games appears to be at. But, rather than picture it in the mundane level dark-gothic punk atmosphere that the genre was born in, imagine a comic book super-hero type genre. That's kinda how our games seem to go. Yeah, we're bad-ass compared to Joe-Shmoe, but our games revolve around that. We all have a ton of 'Lone Star' contacts, almost like 'Shield' for 'The Ultimates' in the new ultimate marvels. And no LoneStar mage compares to me or Spirit (our Astral guy) just like not a one of them could keep up physically with our Adepts or Sams. Hell, in my own Magic Group totalling some 80 members throughout this part of the world (12 in my direct group), the only higher ranking Initiate (and I'm only level 3) is the Level 4 Tribal Shaman who has never even been into the big city. And even then, I'm only 1 of 3 Grade 3's, none of which are in my direct group. I've only ever ever seen two higher Grades in our games (other than my meeting the Grade 4 once), one Toxic and one Insect, both which took out large chunks of our oversized group. But as my GM points out, even though there's 9 of us, a group of 6 mundanes in Sec Armour and with Assault Rifles (they tend to also use Flash Paks, and other tech anomolies) can easily keep us at bay if they are set up in a nice defensive posture with good cover, that's why we play good guys. He plays too damn smart for us as players if we try doing anything 'evil'. Anyhows, didn't really mean to ramble on like that. I think it's a great idea to do MI style of a game. It's worked perfectly for us (though it seems more like Super Heroes). Sphynx |
To be honest, that is not the powerlevel I was thinking of. For that I have a group playing FUZION/Champions.
The M:I idea IMHO is that the individual team member is a spezialist in one area and capable in others but only the efforts of them working in concert is able to pull of the mission.
So opposition will be quite powerful and characters relatively normal level (130 Build points, avg 5-6 Karma/scenario) the difference being that instead of the typical "Mr. Johnson assembles you" team they are a fixed entity with a backer (think corp team here).
The current rundown is:
Each character is build normally with the following exceptions:
Minimum of Essence 2
No Anti-sozial flaws that effect operation in a team
No money down for certain equipment (B&E gear, weapons, DocWagon Basic)
You still pay for normal cloth, lifestyle, entertainment, armor, car
You get the flaw dayjob at lv 3 but not the points!
Your boss communicates through a speaker phone and a guy named Bosley - oh wait, wrong series
Comments, suggestions, experience?
Birdy
| QUOTE (Birdy) |
| No money down for certain equipment (B&E gear, weapons, DocWagon Basic) |
If you're going for a "classic" Mission: Impossible feel (i.e., the TV series, not the movies), in my opinion weapons and armor should generally not be provided to the team. It always seemed to me that the IMF considered combat operations to be beyond their purview - if shooting is required, send in a commando team, not the IMF!
| QUOTE |
| You get the flaw dayjob at lv 3 but not the points! |
I suspect you're probably joking here, but this doesn't really make sense to me. That's like your typical shadowrunner counting legwork and data collection as a "day job" - it's not just a day job, it's his "real" job!
Unless you're planning to give the team members 40 hours per week of paperwork and so forth in addition to the real action...
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