Full Version: Shadow Necessities
Out of curiosity, has anyone put together some sort of list that has what gear every 'runner should have? I remember seeing some talk about someone doing something like that, but I haven't noticed anything else. It'd be nifty, because I'm having problems with gear, and I'm sure others may be, as well.
Try the search function....you'll get all sorts of threads with peoples' huge lists.
well, every piece of gear in the book (minus cyberware or magic stuff, depending on the character, and maybe not even minus that).
of course, if you want to take cost into consideration, that could change things =P
i would say, one very important thing... protective software on your commlink. seems to get forgotten an awful lot.
of course, if you want to take cost into consideration, that could change things =P
i would say, one very important thing... protective software on your commlink. seems to get forgotten an awful lot.
Which is very annoying. A midlevel (rating 3) IC program, even without any of the programs it needs to actually do anything, costs 3,000Y, likely as much or more than your commlink. And don't forget that attack programs are illegal, so really there are no legal ways to actually fight off enemy hackers.
| QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) |
| Which is very annoying. A midlevel (rating 3) IC program, even without any of the programs it needs to actually do anything, costs 3,000Y, likely as much or more than your commlink. And don't forget that attack programs are illegal, so really there are no legal ways to actually fight off enemy hackers. |
A good firewall. Just like in real life, counter-attacking isn't legal.
Hacking programs are Restricted, even Black ICE, which isn't cut and dried illegal. With a [Fake] license you can possess Hacker programs without issue...unless the Fake fails the check. Then you're humped.
Now someone gets their brain fried trying to break into your commlink? Well just like you using a handgun (with a Fake license) to shoot someone breaking into your apartment you'll likely want to try avoid talking to any authorities about the matter....
Incidentally i don't recall rules for real licenses, just fakes. Did i miss them?
Now someone gets their brain fried trying to break into your commlink? Well just like you using a handgun (with a Fake license) to shoot someone breaking into your apartment you'll likely want to try avoid talking to any authorities about the matter....
Incidentally i don't recall rules for real licenses, just fakes. Did i miss them?
No, you didnt - there aren't any. I imagine they're free, since they're -bad-.
And I couldn't find a list like what I'm looking for with search. I'm looking for a "I don't care if you're a mage or a hacker, you -should- have this gear" kind of list.
And I couldn't find a list like what I'm looking for with search. I'm looking for a "I don't care if you're a mage or a hacker, you -should- have this gear" kind of list.
| QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 10 2005, 07:06 PM) |
| No, you didnt - there aren't any. I imagine they're free, since they're -bad-. |
Well yes and no. If you have the SINner quality you might as well use it, even to make sorta Fake licenses that are more real than the Fakes.
I very much doubt they are free.| QUOTE |
| And I couldn't find a list like what I'm looking for with search. I'm looking for a "I don't care if you're a mage or a hacker, you -should- have this gear" kind of list. |
I think he might have been talking about lists in the main SR forum that talk in more general terms. There is one going right now about Bolt Holes. Frankly a lot of the lists look more like RL lists than SR gear lists.
I dunno, I can see them being considered free, simply because they are, in general, bad. That'd be reasonable permits, like firearms and such - for law abiding SINners, of course.
And yes, I took a look at that thread. Not at all what I'm hoping to find
There are just so many new things in SR4 vs. 3, and I'm not a ninja at understanding the technobabbly things.
(that would be why my first SR4 character is an adept.)
And yes, I took a look at that thread. Not at all what I'm hoping to find
There are just so many new things in SR4 vs. 3, and I'm not a ninja at understanding the technobabbly things. (that would be why my first SR4 character is an adept.)
| QUOTE (Gothic Rose) |
| I dunno, I can see them being considered free, simply because they are, in general, bad. That'd be reasonable permits, like firearms and such - for law abiding SINners, of course. |
How many licenses do you know IRL that are issued free?
Hrm, let's have a crack at it:
1) A good weapon, and ammunition for said weapon.
2) Armor with additional protection (Chemical or non-conductivity). My favorite is the Camo Suit, but to each his/her own.
3) Personal transportation of some kind. Generous GMs may include this into your lifestyle costs.
4) 1 month of some sort of lifestyle. This covers most of your necessities of life.
5) Some sort of "standard bolt-hole kit". Ideally, it should be cheap and portable.
6) Perception enhancement (if you don't already have them). This can get expensive, but I like to get earbuds with Audio Enhancement 3 and something with Visual Enhancement 3. You may or may not want to also augment your Olfactory perception (using an Olfactory Sensor Package)
7) DocWagon contract, if you can afford it.
Kits for all of your technical/Repair skills. More expensive stuff if you can afford it, but get the kits at the very least. If you are a B&E specialist, things like Maglock passkeys and such may fall in this category.
9) Fake SIN and Disguise kits. Your identity is your most prized possession, so you need to protect it.
10) A bag of assorted RFID tags. Very cheap, very useful.
11) Climbing equipment, including Gecko Tape.
12) Welding torches or something similar.
There are a few things that you can split up as a team (only one person needs to buy it):
1) Anti-surveillance measures. They are dirt-cheap in SR4 and very useful.
2) An assortment of Jammers. At the very least, they can suppress RFID activity, if you need it.
3) Restraints, including at least one magemask
4) Things that go boom, from commercial explosive to grenades.
5) Programs. Because of piracy, you can replicate programs across the team, if need be. Usually not an issue though (the realm of the hacker, basically).
6) Non-drone surveillance measures (simple cameras, micro-recorders, etc.). You never know when you'll need to do some listening or watching in a place where drones aren't the best option.
7) Our team likes to have at least one "vehicle buster", like a rocket launcher.
*shrugs* I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things. Most of the time, our group tends to forget one or two things and has to improvise until they can be purchased.
1) A good weapon, and ammunition for said weapon.
2) Armor with additional protection (Chemical or non-conductivity). My favorite is the Camo Suit, but to each his/her own.
3) Personal transportation of some kind. Generous GMs may include this into your lifestyle costs.
4) 1 month of some sort of lifestyle. This covers most of your necessities of life.
5) Some sort of "standard bolt-hole kit". Ideally, it should be cheap and portable.
6) Perception enhancement (if you don't already have them). This can get expensive, but I like to get earbuds with Audio Enhancement 3 and something with Visual Enhancement 3. You may or may not want to also augment your Olfactory perception (using an Olfactory Sensor Package)
7) DocWagon contract, if you can afford it.
Kits for all of your technical/Repair skills. More expensive stuff if you can afford it, but get the kits at the very least. If you are a B&E specialist, things like Maglock passkeys and such may fall in this category.9) Fake SIN and Disguise kits. Your identity is your most prized possession, so you need to protect it.
10) A bag of assorted RFID tags. Very cheap, very useful.
11) Climbing equipment, including Gecko Tape.
12) Welding torches or something similar.
There are a few things that you can split up as a team (only one person needs to buy it):
1) Anti-surveillance measures. They are dirt-cheap in SR4 and very useful.
2) An assortment of Jammers. At the very least, they can suppress RFID activity, if you need it.
3) Restraints, including at least one magemask
4) Things that go boom, from commercial explosive to grenades.
5) Programs. Because of piracy, you can replicate programs across the team, if need be. Usually not an issue though (the realm of the hacker, basically).
6) Non-drone surveillance measures (simple cameras, micro-recorders, etc.). You never know when you'll need to do some listening or watching in a place where drones aren't the best option.
7) Our team likes to have at least one "vehicle buster", like a rocket launcher.
*shrugs* I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things. Most of the time, our group tends to forget one or two things and has to improvise until they can be purchased.
The Survival Kit is very nice, and cheap, if you might ever leave the comforts of downtown. The luddite's breakin set is another cheap cool tool: pliers, chisel(and hammer), and prybar. Although you start looking at bulk there so that's more car trunk gear.
As for #1 that depends somewhat on your character if they actually wield physical weapons or rely on other means to do damage such as Unarmed, Spells, Spirits..... or vehicles. EDIT: I guess that could just be reworded as to having some way to damage others.
As for #1 that depends somewhat on your character if they actually wield physical weapons or rely on other means to do damage such as Unarmed, Spells, Spirits..... or vehicles
. EDIT: I guess that could just be reworded as to having some way to damage others.
Say it with me kids, Trauma Patch.
-Siege
-Siege
i would argue that even a mage should have a gun of some kind.
1) what if you can't afford drain atm?
2) what if you're up against someone with crazy counterspelling action?
3) variety of effects are available, targeting both impact and ballistic armor, for various situations.
4) potentially, you could end up running against someplace with a huge background count. like space.
5) there's no need to be standing up and screaming "i'm a mage, someone please geek me!". at the very least, if you have a gun, they might think you're a combat decker or something.
so i would say even if you use magic as your primary means of offense, guns are a good thing to have. considering you can get a reasonably good one for under 500
, you may as well just get one.
1) what if you can't afford drain atm?
2) what if you're up against someone with crazy counterspelling action?
3) variety of effects are available, targeting both impact and ballistic armor, for various situations.
4) potentially, you could end up running against someplace with a huge background count. like space.
5) there's no need to be standing up and screaming "i'm a mage, someone please geek me!". at the very least, if you have a gun, they might think you're a combat decker or something.
so i would say even if you use magic as your primary means of offense, guns are a good thing to have. considering you can get a reasonably good one for under 500
, you may as well just get one.
1) run
2) hide behind the gun bunny and focus on Counterspelling/Banishing (ok, ok, so the "hide behind the gun bunny" part isn't new )
3) Stunbolt shoots through armour....and schools.
4) stay at home
5) This one actually makes sense to me, but the same effect can be had by offering to help a teammate out by carrying their spare weapon.
The senario i was thinking of is basically your character has no blade/firearm/archery skill, and crap for Agility. You'd have to burn Edge just to keep from shooting yourself. Better to save that Edge for defense.
2) hide behind the gun bunny and focus on Counterspelling/Banishing (ok, ok, so the "hide behind the gun bunny" part isn't new
)3) Stunbolt shoots through armour....and schools.
4) stay at home
5) This one actually makes sense to me, but the same effect can be had by offering to help a teammate out by carrying their spare weapon.
The senario i was thinking of is basically your character has no blade/firearm/archery skill, and crap for Agility. You'd have to burn Edge just to keep from shooting yourself. Better to save that Edge for defense.
Agility
well, if you have no skill, then give yourself some =P
well... if you're awakened, at least, that should work. get yourself a quickened analyze object
man, do i have to think of everything for you?
well... if you're awakened, at least, that should work. get yourself a quickened analyze object
man, do i have to think of everything for you?
Without listing exact equipment:
A weapon w/ ammo. Preferably EX and also stick n shock rounds.
Vision enhancement, smartlink, and image link.
Audio enhancement, hearing link.
Rating 6 MedKit along with other patches in the medical section.
A way of communicating at distance quietly, micro transciever is my personal favorite.
A way of being more stealthy. Anything from camo clothes to the stealth armor.
Those would be the absolute essentials every PC should have IMHO.
A weapon w/ ammo. Preferably EX and also stick n shock rounds.
Vision enhancement, smartlink, and image link.
Audio enhancement, hearing link.
Rating 6 MedKit along with other patches in the medical section.
A way of communicating at distance quietly, micro transciever is my personal favorite.
A way of being more stealthy. Anything from camo clothes to the stealth armor.
Those would be the absolute essentials every PC should have IMHO.
Everyone should have a commlink...even if it's off 99% of the time.
A rebreather can be darn handy - 10 feet of water is some of the best armor you can get.
And everybody should have access to some sort of personal transportation - having to schedule extractions around the monorail timetable isn't any fun.
Side note:
I can't imagine trying to use gecko tape in Seattle...the stuff is absolutely worthless if it gets wet.
A rebreather can be darn handy - 10 feet of water is some of the best armor you can get.
And everybody should have access to some sort of personal transportation - having to schedule extractions around the monorail timetable isn't any fun.
Side note:
I can't imagine trying to use gecko tape in Seattle...the stuff is absolutely worthless if it gets wet.
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Oct 11 2005, 08:05 AM) |
| well, if you have no skill, then give yourself some =P |
Great, can you talk to my GM about giving me some extra BP? That would be much appreciated. But i make no guarantee that i won't sink it into Magical skills anyway.
| QUOTE |
| well... if you're awakened, at least, that should work. get yourself a quickened analyze object man, do i have to think of everything for you? |
Four successes just to get one die, and five to actually improve the situation after the -2 sustaining penalty? Nope, pretty sure i'll go with "run"....or Stunball. Saving my Edge tricked out Analyze Device casting for real emergencies, and likely cast on a teammate with a better underlying Attribute, plus they don't have the burden of a -2 sustaining penalty. Besides in a gun fight i'm normally going to be turtling anyway. Spirits deal so much better with bullets than little old lead-foot me.
P.S. It is a good suggestion though, just not a universal one.
I dare recommend two commlinks.
One is your "real" commlink. This puppy has all of the security on it and it lives in passive mode, talking only to your teammates and over secure channels. If you're a hacker, this is your magic wand.
The other is your disposable commlink, registered to one of your throwaway SINs. This is the one you keep active in public places. This is the one that you might use for riskier phone calls and then immediately toss in the trash (or the river, or slip into a bystander's pocket).
One is your "real" commlink. This puppy has all of the security on it and it lives in passive mode, talking only to your teammates and over secure channels. If you're a hacker, this is your magic wand.
The other is your disposable commlink, registered to one of your throwaway SINs. This is the one you keep active in public places. This is the one that you might use for riskier phone calls and then immediately toss in the trash (or the river, or slip into a bystander's pocket).
.......a fake Concealed Handgun License.........
| QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable) |
| Side note: I can't imagine trying to use gecko tape in Seattle...the stuff is absolutely worthless if it gets wet. |
The only times I've ever used Gecko Tape in our games was indoors. It doesn't have to be outdoor urban climbing.
Here is my list, down to the last nuyen.
Item Rating Cost
B&E Gear
Autopicker 6 1200
Cellular Glove Molder 3 600
Keycard Copier 6 1800
Maglock Passkey 4 8000
Miniwelder 250
Monofilament Chainsaw 300
Sequencer 4 800
Directional Jammer 6 3000
Microtranciever 6 800
Tag Eraser 150
Survival/Climing Gear
Climing Gear 200
Gas Mask 100
Gecko Tape Gloves x2 500
Chemsuit 3 600
Respirator 6 600
Grapple Gun 500
Catalyst Stick 120
Stealth Rope 170
Medical Supplies
Biomonitor 300
Medkit 6 600
Stimulant Patch x5 6 750
Trauma Patch 500
Stealth\Disguise Gear
Latex Face Mask 500
Nanopaste - small 500
Chameleon Suit 8000
w/ Thermal Dampening 3000
Armor
Armor Jacket 900
Helmet 100
Commlink & Software
Novatech Airware 1250
Irus Orb 1000
Sim Module w/ Hot Sim 350
Virtual Person 150
Virtual Pet 100
Virtual Weather 100
Exploit 3 1500
Spoof 3 1500
Stealth 3 1500
Command 6 600
Eyewear/Earwear
Contact Lenses 75
w/ Vision Enhancement 300
w/ Smartlink 500
Glasses 50
w/ Vision Mag. 100
w/ Thermographic 100
w/ Flare Comp 50
Monocles 25
w/ Ultrasound 1000
Ear Buds 10
w/ Audio Enhancer 3 300
w/ Sound Filter 3 600
Cyberware
Wired Reflexes 2 32000
Bioware
Muscle Toner 2 16000
Muscle Augmentation 2 14000
Cerebral Booster 2 20000
Platelet Factories 25000
Bone Density Aug 4 80000
Vehicles
Sea Nymph 17000
Item Rating Cost
B&E Gear
Autopicker 6 1200
Cellular Glove Molder 3 600
Keycard Copier 6 1800
Maglock Passkey 4 8000
Miniwelder 250
Monofilament Chainsaw 300
Sequencer 4 800
Directional Jammer 6 3000
Microtranciever 6 800
Tag Eraser 150
Survival/Climing Gear
Climing Gear 200
Gas Mask 100
Gecko Tape Gloves x2 500
Chemsuit 3 600
Respirator 6 600
Grapple Gun 500
Catalyst Stick 120
Stealth Rope 170
Medical Supplies
Biomonitor 300
Medkit 6 600
Stimulant Patch x5 6 750
Trauma Patch 500
Stealth\Disguise Gear
Latex Face Mask 500
Nanopaste - small 500
Chameleon Suit 8000
w/ Thermal Dampening 3000
Armor
Armor Jacket 900
Helmet 100
Commlink & Software
Novatech Airware 1250
Irus Orb 1000
Sim Module w/ Hot Sim 350
Virtual Person 150
Virtual Pet 100
Virtual Weather 100
Exploit 3 1500
Spoof 3 1500
Stealth 3 1500
Command 6 600
Eyewear/Earwear
Contact Lenses 75
w/ Vision Enhancement 300
w/ Smartlink 500
Glasses 50
w/ Vision Mag. 100
w/ Thermographic 100
w/ Flare Comp 50
Monocles 25
w/ Ultrasound 1000
Ear Buds 10
w/ Audio Enhancer 3 300
w/ Sound Filter 3 600
Cyberware
Wired Reflexes 2 32000
Bioware
Muscle Toner 2 16000
Muscle Augmentation 2 14000
Cerebral Booster 2 20000
Platelet Factories 25000
Bone Density Aug 4 80000
Vehicles
Sea Nymph 17000
No weapon? And no Sound Dampers? hmmm ...
I have a criminal SIN, I didn't want a gun because I was trying to make it look like I made an effort at being legit. An HK227X with internal sound suppressor is the first thing I bought IG though...
I meant ear dampers (for protection from loud noises), which, unless I'm mistaken, are available in both cyber and non-cyber versions.
I can understand the gun thing, but I think even a little hold-out is better then nothing. Hold-outs are better in SR4 than they were previously.
I can understand the gun thing, but I think even a little hold-out is better then nothing. Hold-outs are better in SR4 than they were previously.
| QUOTE (Lord Ben) |
| Here is my list, down to the last nuyen. <SNIP> Vehicles Sea Nymph 17000 |
OK I make that as a total of 241,000 nuyen. Leaving you either 4,000 or 9,000 nuyen depending on if you spent only 49 BPs or went the whole hog and spent your max 50BPs on resources. Assuming the 50BP choice that leaves you enough to get a Middle lifestyle for 1 month plus 4,000 left for a weapon/s of some description plus some ammo
A mage with little or no skill and a marginal Agility rating might as well not carry a gun for the likely or unlikely ability to inflict damage against a serious hostile.
As an intimidation tool, the character might as well opt for a Heavy handgun to drive the pucker factor home.
-Siege
As an intimidation tool, the character might as well opt for a Heavy handgun to drive the pucker factor home.
-Siege
It's on an excel spreadsheet, it all tally's up to 250k.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| A mage with little or no skill and a marginal Agility rating might as well not carry a gun for the likely or unlikely ability to inflict damage against a serious hostile. As an intimidation tool, the character might as well opt for a Heavy handgun to drive the pucker factor home. |
True, but judging from the wares list, we're not really talking about a weak-ass mage.
| QUOTE |
| A mage with little or no skill and a marginal Agility rating might as well not carry a gun for the likely or unlikely ability to inflict damage against a serious hostile. |
My technomancer is in this position. I'm far better off trying to hack an NPC's gun than use mine, even if I have to try to grapple him to connect to his skinlink. And just forget about explosive rounds -- rolling two dice, the odds that I'll blow myself up are 1/3 (well, maybe not quite, it only happens on a critical glitch, not a glitch). And the odds that those two dice will be better than the opponent's reaction are probably less than that.
'course, I still carry the biggest pistol I can find, just to put the fear of god back in the peasant folk.
Sound Dampners are only implants as far as I could find. I didn't see them under the the audio enhancements.
Feshy, it only costs 6bp or 6 karma to raise pistols (heavy) to 1(+2) and somewhere around 600 for contacts with smartlink. If you already have 3 agility that's 8 dice in heavy pistols for like one session worth of xp and barely any money at all.
Feshy, it only costs 6bp or 6 karma to raise pistols (heavy) to 1(+2) and somewhere around 600 for contacts with smartlink. If you already have 3 agility that's 8 dice in heavy pistols for like one session worth of xp and barely any money at all.
| QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Oct 12 2005, 06:08 AM) |
| Sound Dampners are only implants as far as I could find. I didn't see them under the the audio enhancements. Feshy, it only costs 6bp or 6 karma to raise pistols (heavy) to 1(+2) and somewhere around 600 for contacts with smartlink. If you already have 3 agility that's 8 dice in heavy pistols for like one session worth of xp and barely any money at all. |
Assuming 3 Agility on my mage is....well it's assuming too much. Also when i can drop that 6BP instead into a Counterspelling Focus(3) guess where it's going...and i'll hazzard a guess i have the full support of my teammates on that choice.
P.S. Oh, and i'd have to drop something from my vision enhancement to make Avail room for SL.
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||
Assuming 3 Agility on my mage is....well it's assuming too much. Also when i can drop that 6BP instead into a Counterspelling Focus(3) instead guess where it's going...and i'll hazzard a guess i have the full support of my teammates on that choice. P.S. Oh, and i'd have to drop something from my vision enhancement to make Avail room for SL. |
It's the same, or worse, with the technomancer, I think. Though, technomancers don't get that wonderful 6 point invenstment that is the counterspell focus. Those things are so great, they ought to raise magician and mystical adept to 21 and 16 points, respecitvely, and include those foci in the cost.
Also, the pistols (heavy) 1(+2) isn't right. There's a discussion elsewhere here, but you can't have modifiers to a skill that make the value greater than 1.5 times the skill. Techinically, this would mean +0 in this case... but the sample characters show it as +1, not +2.
Not all modifiers count towards the Augmented Skill Limit.
Well, he said he was rolling two dice for his firearms so I assumed 3 agility with no skill in firearms.
You can go above avail 12 after char creation, so just upgrade to the vision enhancers, or put a smart link monocle over whatever you're using. And 6bp is fairly cheap to be able to provide firearm backup. Hell, the mage in our party has automatics 4.
You can go above avail 12 after char creation, so just upgrade to the vision enhancers, or put a smart link monocle over whatever you're using. And 6bp is fairly cheap to be able to provide firearm backup. Hell, the mage in our party has automatics 4.
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