I don't understand why they even put it in the book really. It was lame in SR3 and it looks lame in SR4 to me. Which is sad because I like the sound of it, roleplaying wise.
My issue with it is this: Who the hell would buy it?? It gives you an awesome boost at rating 2, but then you get instant unresistable drain equal to how long you use it. So at rating two you have 2 things to hope for, both of which suck:
1. You roll your 2d6 and get 12 rounds, yay, time to kick some ass. Fight lasts 3 rounds then a minute or two later you pass out.....that sucks, well better sleep all day now, hope the team understands....
2. You roll your 2d6 and get a low number....like 2...Which is better I think, but you still have the chance of it running out in the middle of a fight and giving you crap target modifiers...
Really, I understand the instant unresisted stun, but it seems like to much for it to be a marketable product....I'm hoping one of you guys will come along and tell me I'm a retard and explain how it really works....or else what good is it for?
Full Version: Adrenaline Pump....Guh
no, i'd say you've pretty much just nailed it, dead on. in fact, if you have filled up your stun condition monitor (ie, if you have taken stun damage enough to KO you after activating the pump) then you it has a rather good chance of killing you if you roll too high.
for example:
a rating 2 pump.
you fill up your stun monitor while on a 8 round adrenal gland rampage, plus 3 points of your physical damage boxes. the rampage ends. you take 8 physical damage. and probably die (or at least go into a coma), unless you are a troll or have lots of cyberlimbs or something.
just imagine the poor guy who has rating 3 and rolls 18. imagine what that must be like (oh great, i'm going to die in under a minute if i take the beating this thing is supposed to prevent me from feeling. i'm sure glad i've got an adrenal pump.
for example:
a rating 2 pump.
you fill up your stun monitor while on a 8 round adrenal gland rampage, plus 3 points of your physical damage boxes. the rampage ends. you take 8 physical damage. and probably die (or at least go into a coma), unless you are a troll or have lots of cyberlimbs or something.
just imagine the poor guy who has rating 3 and rolls 18. imagine what that must be like (oh great, i'm going to die in under a minute if i take the beating this thing is supposed to prevent me from feeling. i'm sure glad i've got an adrenal pump.
Just a note: You roll Rating x 1d6, not 2d6. There's a big difference there in terms of probability. And yes, it's not exactly the best piece of 'ware in the world. Perfect for installing into crazed death-machine type cyber-zombies, though... NPCs can be positively evil with one of these buggers.
Yup a complete piece of crap! plus they expect you to pay between 30,000¥ and 90,000¥!
A better option would have been to make it deal 2xRating in stun damage and maybe add a note that as long as at least one box is applied to your stun damage track the damage doesn't overflow whereas if you should have been knocked unconscious by the damage you had taken whilst under it's influence (eg full stun damage track) then you have a chance of dying (eg the damage will overflow)
Doesn't make it game breaking for it's points and also makes it actually useable
A better option would have been to make it deal 2xRating in stun damage and maybe add a note that as long as at least one box is applied to your stun damage track the damage doesn't overflow whereas if you should have been knocked unconscious by the damage you had taken whilst under it's influence (eg full stun damage track) then you have a chance of dying (eg the damage will overflow)
Doesn't make it game breaking for it's points and also makes it actually useable
I really want to use it though, because of the cool ignore stun penalty thing and just the idea that your character is totally hyped up.....I probably would be happy with it if it had a lower set stun amount( like evil1 said), or allowed you to resist it with body....
But it would just be dumb. I play the type of game where I would be fighting at least 3 times per session, and theres no way a guy could get thru it without falling going unconscious...
But it would just be dumb. I play the type of game where I would be fighting at least 3 times per session, and theres no way a guy could get thru it without falling going unconscious...
If you roll high you'll want to finish the battle as quick as possible and rush over to the magician to get your heal on. Of course if you've taken too much damage for the Heal to become permanent in time (even when the caster diverts some of the hits to reduce time to Permanent) you are humped anyway. 
The good news is that if he does manage to Heal you in time the new Stun damage is a fresh set of wounds that he can Heal again.
Overall it is one scary piece of ware to use.
The good news is that if he does manage to Heal you in time the new Stun damage is a fresh set of wounds that he can Heal again.
Overall it is one scary piece of ware to use.
Since my book has yet to arrive, I was just wondering, did they also reprint the pharmaceuticals that let you trigger the thing at will, or supress it from triggering? When the Adreanaline Pump was first presented in ShadowTech, a few chapters later they listed drugs that made the implant make much more sense from a tactical standpoint.
Nope, and worse yet you have to make a Composure Test (Willpower+Charisma vs. a Threshhold set by the GM based on how accustomed they judge the PC is to the freaky stuff going on around) or that damn thing goes off by itself.
First Aid heals Stun Damage.
Without the support of the proper supression and triggering drugs, the adrenaline pump becomes little more than an expensive gamble.
It's this sort of situation that makes me wish that the developers would take more time to try to step back and see the big picture when they port items from edition to edition. I can rattle off about a half-dozen other cases where a narrow focus on just the item itself means that the greater context gets passed by.
It's this sort of situation that makes me wish that the developers would take more time to try to step back and see the big picture when they port items from edition to edition. I can rattle off about a half-dozen other cases where a narrow focus on just the item itself means that the greater context gets passed by.
Stimulant Patches... Then, get help....
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| First Aid heals Stun Damage. |
That too (or Physical). However once again the number of boxes damage on the Condition Monitor is the number of Combat Turns of time it takes to effective the healing, and unlike the Heal spell there is no mechanism [given] for reducing that time. I suppose a nice [yet secretly devious
] GM might allow the First Aider to attempt a Rush Job, even though by RAW it isn't a Extended Test.
Oh man, what a great piece of cyber! From now on, all my NPCs will have this.
Sucks to be a PC today!! Hahahahaa...
Sucks to be a PC today!! Hahahahaa...
Until they simply pin that NPC down, wait for the stun effect and then hit them with gel rounds, harvets the pump and sell it, only to be harvested again by the same team down the road.
Big meanie GMs have big meanie fiat ways of dealing with that, like the "coming down" system shock that killed the NPC basically screwed all the bioware in the NPC as their body chemistry went basically toxic....or some such medical mumbo-jumbo silliness. 
hence why you need to bleed them in a proper manner, as in hang them by the ankles and slice across the throat, allowing the blood to drain fully. this should remove the toxins and keep the bioware from going toxic. Of course, this works best when the subject is still alive, even if near death.
however it is incredibly messy.
it also pays to have a rabbi runner perform the necessary rites so that the ghouls you sell the left-overs to can keep kosher if they so choose.
however it is incredibly messy.
it also pays to have a rabbi runner perform the necessary rites so that the ghouls you sell the left-overs to can keep kosher if they so choose.
Oh, but it was a so very fast acting toxic shock!
P.S. Of course that train of thought is really academic. After all what self-respecting NPC is going to be "pinned down"? Charge men! Their deathbots have a preset kill limit, we'll clog their finely tuned machinery with our bullet riddled corpses and choke them in a flood of our blood!
P.S. Of course that train of thought is really academic. After all what self-respecting NPC is going to be "pinned down"? Charge men! Their deathbots have a preset kill limit, we'll clog their finely tuned machinery with our bullet riddled corpses and choke them in a flood of our blood!
I knew there was a reason why I still read your posts.
that was funny.
that was funny.
That's because i stole parts of it from Futurama. 
hmm does seem a bit busted...
but does give me a nasty idea, set the runners to take the person alive, therefore the probable use ( abuse) of gell and stick'n'shock, then when the pump wears off the shit hits the fan.
though probably a bit too much of a plot hammer
but does give me a nasty idea, set the runners to take the person alive, therefore the probable use ( abuse) of gell and stick'n'shock, then when the pump wears off the shit hits the fan.
though probably a bit too much of a plot hammer
Pain Editor.
That explains why it's so damned funny Blakkie.
If you want to look at this from a medical standpoint, using "stim" patches (sort for stimulant) would probably be a good idea. Admittedly the rules allow it but realistically adding stimulants onto an already accelerated system would lead to some nasty side affects or overdose. But the stun damage is most likely to represent the excessive demands placed on the heart by unnaturally high adrenaline levels. A way to lessen this might be to reduce the stun damage by getting a synthacardium weave in the heart to make it stronger and a bit more resistant to excessive abuse. House rules would need apply.
Edit: last post should read would NOT be a good idea
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| Until they simply pin that NPC down, wait for the stun effect and then hit them with gel rounds, harvets the pump and sell it, only to be harvested again by the same team down the road. |
I can't imagine NPCs are pinned down all that often. After all, if you're shooting and it's someone who actually has valuable cyber, you're probably in a rush. I certainly can't imagine you having time to do open surgery in the middle of a run, and lugging a bag full of knocked out security guards doesn't seem like a great idea (however, it DOES bring a new meaning to stealing everything not nailed down).
That said, if a group is willing to go through all that trouble just to get around $3k and a reputation for harvesting organs out of living people, well... I guess that's their decision, ain't it?
Yeah organ-legging and harvesting along with implant theft is a great way to get a lot of nasty people gunning for the PCs in no uncertain terms. Lone Star, family members, the dude whose cyberskull you got 2.5k for's partner, corp sweep-and-clear teams. You name it it's a whole lot of nastiness. Professional criminal doesn't always have to equate to sadistic and psychotic, most people forget the "professional" part. Tamanous doesn't exactly like competitors either...
Who said anything about competing with Tamanous?
-Frank
-Frank
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| Until they simply pin that NPC down, wait for the stun effect and then hit them with gel rounds, harvets the pump and sell it, only to be harvested again by the same team down the road. |
Like that's going to happen... There's no possible way, short of getting a good amount of successes on a diagnose spell or assensing test AND having the background medical knowledge to interpret it to determine if someone has an active adrenal pump. In a normal combat situation, that's probably not going to happen, not before the engagement has already turned deadly.
You can also implant Adrenal pumps into guard dogs or other critters, making them quite scary.
Just supplying them...
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| You can also implant Adrenal pumps into guard dogs or other critters, making them quite scary. |
Until the players figure out the "make a loud noise and wait 30 seconds" strategy.
-Frank
rofl
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) | ||
Until the players figure out the "make a loud noise and wait 30 seconds" strategy. |
If the PCs already know this going into the run, they are either metagaming or they did some exceptional legwork. At the very least, making a "loud noise" or whatever would still require a Composure check to even trigger the pump before the dogs/NPCs are in melee range. You can also have a remote-activated version of the Adrenal Pump pretty easily (simply titrate the delivery mechanism with a cyber-radio-controlled valve), allowing the Adrenal Pump to be under the complete control of the handler.
As mentioned above, you can also combine it with a Pain Editor, and the Hounds (or human NPCs for that matter) will never fall unconscious from the Stun damage that they take from the Pump.
*shrugs* I'm just listing off ideas for the use of the Adrenal Pump, trying not to dismiss it entirely. It's still a bad piece of 'ware in my book.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| It's still a bad piece of 'ware in my book. |
Yeah, that it is. It's always been pretty craptacular in every edition, all the way back to its introduction in Shadowtech. And that's a shame, because it is really cool as a concept.
As is, it's unreliable, ultimately destructive, and expensive. I just can't justify the first two in light of the last. Really, you have to compare the Adrenal Pump to just getting yourself a Datajack, an Autoinjector, and a handful of doses of Kamikaze. And in that light, the Adrenal Pump really comes up short.
With the unreliability and ultimate lethality of getting the Pump, it should definately be cheaper than jacking yourself up on Kamikaze (which is just as ultimately lethal, but always works). And it's not. I do think it should be fixed, because there should be an eco-niche for that implant (on account of being wicked awesome).
Fix 1: It's dirt cheap. I mean 500
per rating point. And I'm not even kidding. This would put it into the price reach of live fast/die young go-gangers - the only ethnic group that would go under the knife for a edge this short-lived that is that destructive to your health.Fix 2: It's astoundingly less likely to end your life. Duration of the boost goes up to 1 minute/rating and/or the drain goes down to 1/2 the rolled duration. I could even see a setup where it simply caused a drain of 2 boxes/rating point rather than being tied to the duration at all. This direction would make the Adrenal Pump be the mark of a high-end modified Ork.
There's much to reccommend either fix from the standpoint of flavor. The first would make the Adrenal Pump be an item like unto doses of Kamikaze - something no self-respecting Shadowrunner would touch, but which is found on mid-range thugs to allow them to compete in the games that the big boys play (if only for a while). The second would put the Adrenal Pump on the Christmas list of high-end cyborgs after they got their cheaper immediate needs taken care of. Either make it something to live down or something to aspire to. Now it's just something to make fun of.
-Frank
The SR3 version wasn't too bad if you had a high willpower (or did you resist it with body? I can't remember now.) and picked up some of that MOA or whatever it was. Sure, it was pricey, but if you're going for a monster strength character, there's only so much you can do, and that happens to be a cheap... well, not cheap, but A way to get a few more points in.
Pain Editor?
| QUOTE (Azralon) |
| Pain Editor? |
I agree.
Except that the availability is 18F so it's hard to do it with a standard starting character, but together, very nasty combination.
Some 'ware only works well in conjunction with other 'ware.
<Evil DM Laugh>
Hmmm... Bio-Augmented Barghests with Lvl. 3 Adrenal Pump and Pain Editor....
</Evil DM Laugh>
Hmmm... Bio-Augmented Barghests with Lvl. 3 Adrenal Pump and Pain Editor....
</Evil DM Laugh>
then they should make it a package deal. if it's not gonna be useful on it's own, and no one in their right mind would want to have one on it's own, then why on earth are they selling it on it's own?
furthermore, you may not collapse at the end... but you're still gonna take monstrous damage at the end if you roll "well" on a high rating one.
i mean, i don't care if you can heal stun damage or whatever... you're still looking at up to 18 boxes (assuming rating 3) on top of whatever you've already got. which, if you are uninjured, at least won't put you into a coma. however, if you have taken only 5 damage (of either kind), an 18 round boost from the adrenal pump can kill you.
in fact, i would say you are better just buying the pain editor without the adrenal pump, and boosting your attributes some other way that isn't so likely to kill you.
furthermore, you may not collapse at the end... but you're still gonna take monstrous damage at the end if you roll "well" on a high rating one.
i mean, i don't care if you can heal stun damage or whatever... you're still looking at up to 18 boxes (assuming rating 3) on top of whatever you've already got. which, if you are uninjured, at least won't put you into a coma. however, if you have taken only 5 damage (of either kind), an 18 round boost from the adrenal pump can kill you.
in fact, i would say you are better just buying the pain editor without the adrenal pump, and boosting your attributes some other way that isn't so likely to kill you.
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Fix 1: It's dirt cheap. I mean 500 per rating point. And I'm not even kidding. This would put it into the price reach of live fast/die young go-gangers - the only ethnic group that would go under the knife for a edge this short-lived that is that destructive to your health. |
...Oh my. I just had the most wonderful idea. A Go-Gang named "Reavers" who are nothing but a bunch of psychotic, twisted, rage filled cannibals who will sew your skin to their armor, rape you, and devour you before killing you. And they all have Adrenaline Pumps.
God I love Joss Whedon. I never thought of porting something from Firefly into Shadowrun. Kick Ass.
Been there, stolen that. 
Take a look at the steppin'wulfs gang in LA - their 'patron' makes adrenal pumps and suprathyroid gland that are twice as effective and do less negative effect...
As for softening the 'blow' of an adrenal pump...have the character resist the damage with body, and maybe even deduct the rating from the total...and of course, reintroduce the activator/blocker from sr2 and 3.
As for softening the 'blow' of an adrenal pump...have the character resist the damage with body, and maybe even deduct the rating from the total...and of course, reintroduce the activator/blocker from sr2 and 3.
| QUOTE (Squinky) |
| I don't understand why they even put it in the book really. It was lame in SR3 and it looks lame in SR4 to me. Which is sad because I like the sound of it, roleplaying wise. My issue with it is this: Who the hell would buy it?? It gives you an awesome boost at rating 2, but then you get instant unresistable drain equal to how long you use it. So at rating two you have 2 things to hope for, both of which suck: 1. You roll your 2d6 and get 12 rounds, yay, time to kick some ass. Fight lasts 3 rounds then a minute or two later you pass out.....that sucks, well better sleep all day now, hope the team understands.... 2. You roll your 2d6 and get a low number....like 2...Which is better I think, but you still have the chance of it running out in the middle of a fight and giving you crap target modifiers... Really, I understand the instant unresisted stun, but it seems like to much for it to be a marketable product....I'm hoping one of you guys will come along and tell me I'm a retard and explain how it really works....or else what good is it for? |
Umm, could be just a weird Idea of little me, but isn't it possible to use something like... for example a slap patch to counter the adrenal pump?
I mean, If I would roll a 12 as stated above, fight for 3 rounds and THEN use the slap patch, or whatever substance counters the adrenal pump within the 4th round, wouldn't that mean that I take "only" 4 boxes of stun damage?
well, yes. hypothetically. if such a thing existed, you could use it to avoid killing yourself with your own bioware.
that's why people think that they should have one in this edition. probably one that is internal and DNI controlled, at that.
that's why people think that they should have one in this edition. probably one that is internal and DNI controlled, at that.
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| well, yes. hypothetically. if such a thing existed, you could use it to avoid killing yourself with your own bioware. that's why people think that they should have one in this edition. probably one that is internal and DNI controlled, at that. |
I always thought MAO would counter the adrenal pump. Does it still exist in the 4th version?
| QUOTE (Lung Han) |
| I always thought MAO would counter the adrenal pump. Does it still exist in the 4th version? |
MAO does counter the Adrenal Pump, and it has not yet been listed in 4th Edition.
It's a bit poor how the stun damage from this thing is unresisted. So basically it doesn't matter whether you have it installed in the fittest, healthiest, super athlete the world has ever seen, or in a 100 year old man who can barely stand up out of his chair without collapsing from exhaustion. They'll both take the same damage.
I guess with the rules (in my opinion not too well) written as they are, a rating 1 pump is worth a go. At worst you'll take 6 boxes of stun, which is really bad, but it's better than 12 or 18! and you still get +1 on a lot of attributes. Attributes being extremely powerful in SR4, this is quite a good thing.
Alternatively you could use combat drugs and only use them when YOU want to, rather than every time the GM thinks it would be amusing. The addiction rules seem to be more leniant than in SR3, and hey it even makes a difference what your relevant stats are!!
With a really high Body/Logic/Willpower (not easy, but bear with me), you can be rolling anything up to 12 dice (the usual exceptions aside), and that's on an Addiction (2) test (I'm assuming most combat drugs are classed as stimulants). Even better, you don't have to make the test every time you take drugs, and you can use Edge on it and all that good stuff.
Whereas with an Adrenal Pump 3 all you need to do is roll a 6 after heavy combat and you'll lose at SR4.
I guess with the rules (in my opinion not too well) written as they are, a rating 1 pump is worth a go. At worst you'll take 6 boxes of stun, which is really bad, but it's better than 12 or 18! and you still get +1 on a lot of attributes. Attributes being extremely powerful in SR4, this is quite a good thing.
Alternatively you could use combat drugs and only use them when YOU want to, rather than every time the GM thinks it would be amusing. The addiction rules seem to be more leniant than in SR3, and hey it even makes a difference what your relevant stats are!!
With a really high Body/Logic/Willpower (not easy, but bear with me), you can be rolling anything up to 12 dice (the usual exceptions aside), and that's on an Addiction (2) test (I'm assuming most combat drugs are classed as stimulants). Even better, you don't have to make the test every time you take drugs, and you can use Edge on it and all that good stuff.
Whereas with an Adrenal Pump 3 all you need to do is roll a 6 after heavy combat and you'll lose at SR4.
I think the only thing needed to fix the Adrenal Pump is just to flat out ignore the part in the description where it says that the Stun damage is unresisted. Add in a resistance test and suddely the ware is somewhat useful again.
dunno about that, Fortune. 18 boxes of stun damage is a problem, whether or not it can be resisted. i think the MAO is really needed here...
If the stun was resistable I'd at least consider taking an Adrenal Pump above rating 1 for a PC. 3 would probably still be too lethal unless you had extreme attributes, but you could manage with level 2. At least if you kept your composure...
Hrm. What about something like...
You take a number of unresistable boxes of stun damage equal to:
(Number of Rounds Pumped)/(Rating)
That would mean that you'll always take anywhere from 1-6 stun. It just means that the higher rating ones are even more efficient.
You take a number of unresistable boxes of stun damage equal to:
(Number of Rounds Pumped)/(Rating)
That would mean that you'll always take anywhere from 1-6 stun. It just means that the higher rating ones are even more efficient.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.