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Mystweaver
Hi there, I have a couple of questions about some SR3 rules. I have not had a chance to look over the SR4 rules yet so am unaware if this has been clarified. Perhaps someone could shed some light.


Firstly, when on the astral plane, whether perceiving or dual natured, when you assense someone, if that person is also looking back astrally or even not, is it noticeable that you are assessing them or is does it appear outwardly that you are just looking at them? Or as above can that magically active person "feel" you assensing them?

Secondly, according to MITS, it appears that if my Grade 10 Initiate (Magic 16) is attempting to assense another powerful initiate who is say Grade 12 (Magic 18) that the GM has to make two secret rolls. The first requires 16 dice TN 18 with two successes to penetrate, the second requires 18 dice TN 16 with one success... This leads me to believe that for high level initiates it is rare that they will notice each other very often. Is this the case or have I got the wrong end of the stick with regard to this set of rules. Same as before, can the other initiate "feel" you pierce their masking or the attempt?

P.S. Arrrgghhh! The topic is supposed to read "How Obvious is Aura READING"... oh well! spin.gif
nezumi
Assuming you are astrally perceiving and not projecting, reading someone's aura simply would involve looking at that person. If you're making a thorough examination, the guy might become suspicious that you're staring at him, but he wouldn't feel anything. If the other guy is astrally perceiving, he could probably guess what you're doing (since you're looking at him on the astral), but again, he wouldn't feel anything.

As for initiates... I thought they could only do that if they have the masking metamagic. I can double check the rules if I'm wrong, but yeah, masking is supposed to make you harder to see as it gets higher. A lot of initiates don't buy masking (then again, at the ungodly level 18, he probably has two of everything), so it doesn't come into play that often.
Mystweaver
Are you kidding me? Masking was the first Metamagic technique I took as it allows you to mask certain foci abiet at a weak level until you get to the initiate grade my character has (grade 10)... Takes a SERIOUS amount of Roleplay to get there mind...

But thanks for your reply. My GM tends to think that Aura Reading & Piercing Maskingis obvious. My arguement is that if you are masked, you dont look as though you are on the astral so how can the tell you are astrally perceiving let alone Reading their Aura. The character I play is a Drake so naturally Masking is extremely important!
Grinder
Being a Drake brings a lot of other problems too.
Mystweaver
Dont I know it! Bloody Great Dragons..
Grinder
Noone told you before? wink.gif
nezumi
QUOTE (Mystweaver)
Are you kidding me? Masking was the first Metamagic technique I took as it allows you to mask certain foci abiet at a weak level until you get to the initiate grade my character has (grade 10)...

Are you a:
A) Human
B) Elf, dwarf, ork, troll or other 'normal' metahuman race
C) A metahuman varient
D) A surgeling, or infected with a socially unacceptable disease
E) A freak of nature like a drake

Professionally, you:
A) Pursue a profession mostly dedicated with public research or teaching or magical work
B) Pursue privately funded research or magical work that is of a sensitive, but non-classified nature
C) Work regularly with classified or controlled information, materials and projects
D) Have no job
E) Are a professional criminal, regularly on the lam


If you choose E in both questions, masking MAY be more useful for you than the average 2060 mage. MOST initiates probably have no reason to purchase masking any more than I have a reason for lying to friends about what I do at work.
Velocity
In other words, it's ideal for shadowrunners. wink.gif
Mystweaver
I kinda thought that was our Job? However, although I have no choice about choosing E in the first instance, I would choose both C and E in the second instance. They kind of go hand in hand.

However, I find masking most important as a Drake (or any other awakened individual) can walk into Renraku as a Janitor (as long has said masked individual has formed an identity on the Renraku database and has a good enough understanding of Renraku Corporate Lingo) and get away scott free (and appear to be a Janitor!).

Hiding your Aura is the first step to being sneaky if you are awakened. All shadowrunners need to be sneaking imo... rather important methinks.


As for Dragons, well, its best to avoid them eh! Unless they trap you in their games or your fate decides you must work with them...
Sunday_Gamer
Well I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. Masking is the single greatest and most useful and DEFINITELY mandatory discipline of the shadowrunning mage.

Being to conceal your dual nature ALONE is worth it's weight in gold.

Masking also enables you to conceal spells on your self ( 1 force pt per grade) Masking allows a mage to appear as a mundane or an unitiated mage. No use? Ya, there's no historial precedence for masking the true measure of your power from your enemies.

On topic however, ascensing someone is as obvious as staring at someone. That's it "He's looking at you intently" is as much advanced warning I'm willing to give out about being ascensed.

Now granted everyone is entitled to their opinion about how useful masking is or isn't, in the end it depends on the game you're in. Where I come from, the sooner you can learn to mask, the happier you will be.

Sunday
Mystweaver
Thanks Sunday, that is how it always occured to me. However my GM always ran it that when you assense someone, you give away tell tale signs like a flicker of an eye or a strange look in your face when you assensed. Yet as far as I have read about peoples perception of what assensing is, is that it is not a sight rather a psychic sense.

Assensing to me therefore is reading the aura that you feel when you look at someone. I have been disagreeing with him about this subject for quite some time but things still flow steadily and the current "house rule" as I would call it just means I dont assense people as often as I would (As my character follows the way of the shadow and rarely likes to give away that he is magically active... just incase people enquire further to find out I am also a Drake and send some more drek heads to skin me for my Talismonger properties nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif frown.gif ).
Fortune
QUOTE (Mystweaver)
I kinda thought that was our Job?

Yes, but nezumi's point is that the majority of Initiates in 2070 are not Shadowrunners, and therefore do not feel the same need to hide or mask their Auras.

No matter how useful Masking is for a Shadowrunner (and it is very useful indeed), it is certainly not a requirement for every single Initiate.
nezumi
QUOTE (Mystweaver)
However my GM always ran it that when you assense someone, you give away tell tale signs like a flicker of an eye or a strange look in your face when you assensed. Yet as far as I have read about peoples perception of what assensing is, is that it is not a sight rather a psychic sense.

With all we've said however, this line sums up the correct answer.

The GM has said this is how it is. That is how it is. You're, of course, welcome to mention to him how other GMs do it, but in the end, he wins.

Fortune - Thank you! I'm glad someone can understand what I'm saying nyahnyah.gif
Talia Invierno
QUOTE
No matter how useful Masking is for a Shadowrunner (and it is very useful indeed), it is certainly not a requirement for every single Initiate.
- Fortune

I'd even suggest that it's only among those where concealment of their true abilities is actively desirable that Masking would be popular at all: including shadowrunners certainly, but also including anyone working undercover or otherwise incognito. Additionally, I suspect many adepts might tend to discover Masking, in some cases completely unconsciously: since so many otherwise legitimate pursuits, such as sports, discriminate against adept magic specifically (but not cyber!).

Otherwise, I'm thinking displaying -- or even flaunting -- one's magical nature would generally be seen as a desirable thing: partly in the sense of "you don't want to mess with me", partly even in the sense of "I'm part of the magical Mensa / I'm better than you." I doubt most legit citizens would have any problem with the complete-reveal laws of many of the more regulated countries: although some even among them might be tempted to pick up Masking to avoid a compulsory ritual sample in places such as England.
NightRain
I always imagined that initiates would mask themselves, purely because no one likes to give away the exact extend of their knowledge, which is not too hard to determine if you can read someones aura. If they want to flaunt their initiate status but leave it at that, they can make themselves look mundane or the like when they're astrally active smile.gif
Mystweaver
Well that is the idea of this post - to see other peoples opinions on the matter.
When I said "I Kinda thought that was our Job" I was referring to Shadowrunners in general. The majority of magically active characters who work regular jobs all around the world not needing masking is pretty obvious.

However, the majority of magically active characters a successful shadowrun team comes up against are also going to be masked as they are usually highly trained security guards, though it is rare still that there are many who are has high grade as myself. (There are just more lower grade peeps instead who always provide a problem). Also, when going up against Critters, masking is quite useful as they tend to go for the more magically active characters and if you can mask, they will go for someone else in your team wobble.gif

Its always nice when another Shadowrun team is sent out to get us from one of our many enemies, and this is where my question comes from.

Oh and our timeline is at 2064. Chicago has not happened yet (so we can play it) and there are a few things that are out there that we do not know about (but are available from the new source books).
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Mystweaver)
Oh and our timeline is at 2064. Chicago has not happened yet (so we can play it) and there are a few things that are out there that we do not know about (but are available from the new source books).

If by Chicago, you mean Bug City and the events in Burning Bright, then it has been almost a decade from the Cermak Nuke event if you are playing in 2064. Do you mean 2054?
nick012000
He means his game is running on an alternate timeline to canon.
Mystweaver
That is correct Nick... It allows for our experienced GM to run those events or in this case write them into the existing and broad storyline so that we can create the outcome. We also have a very large behind the scenes edge to the campaign as we spend perhaps a third of our time sorting out issues related the this ancient world of Earthdawn.

Some craziness happens and it is quite highly powered (which it has to be with Karma earnt ranging from 400-700 karma per player (and 4-7players). I may post some of my session notes somewhere in here.
Demon_Bob
Our mage used to always Assess NPC's of note claiming that one couldn't tell.
One day the GM asked how someone couldn't tell you were giving him the thousand yard stare? As the insulted could have been cool Contact walked.
tisoz
QUOTE (Mystweaver)
However, I find masking most important as a Drake (or any other awakened individual) can walk into Renraku as a Janitor (as long has said masked individual has formed an identity on the Renraku database and has a good enough understanding of Renraku Corporate Lingo) and get away scott free (and appear to be a Janitor!).

You are still going to look the same, only your aura gets masked, not your meat Bod.

As far as how noticable assensing is, it requires being astrally active and a Simple Action. So how discretely can those 2 things be done?
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