Ok, I just had a small brainstorm and wondered what you people think about it. In SR4 the line between Rigger and Decker became somewhat blurry and we got ourselves Hackers instead, basically capable of doing the same thing with the only difference being one piece of cyberware (Control Rig) that basically only gives the character +2D6 to piloting tests and nothing more since it is no longer a requirement for jumping into a drone.

Since ALL hackers/riggers can go full VR directly into a drone that would mean that Technomancers should be able to do the same thing, except for one thing, at least it seems like it. Technomancers cannot use complex forms as agents but they might use Sprites for it instead.

Now, here’s what I have been leading up to: Technomancers can use sprites very much like agents for controlling drones (Machine sprites). The problem is that these little buggers De-Rez after eight hours, unless you have registered sprites.

With the basically unlimited memory storage of 2070 wouldn’t it be possible to start the game (or create later) registred sprites with one task that you give a order like…

“Upload yourself to this drone and live in this drone and follow my orders until I die.”

The drawback would that you would have to decompile the sprite to remove him from the drone since he would basically BE the drone, it would have become his shell/body and he would not be able to leave.

Another drawback would be that unlike riggers you wouldn’t be able to stack them to get commands as a group - each one would have to be instructed separately. The third drawback would be that the Technomancer would need a registered sprite for each drone unlike riggers who can upload a pilot program on the fly to the drone that needs it.

The fourth drawback would be that it can no longer be given commands to do things that have to do with things that has nothing to do with it’s function as a drone (like doing a data search on the matrix for example)

The good things would be that you would have a sprite that you would have a connection to even outside matrix range (in the desert for example with no connection) as long as it is within the personas signal strength since it now resides within the drone.

They would be more secure against hacking since they would be more or less invisible (I have a hard time seeing a lonestar drone being able to access the technomancers “Wetlink” since it would not use any recognized computer language.

Finally, the BP sink in skills and needed autosoft complex forms eats up a LOT of BP and you need cash for the drones, rigger interface etc as with a normal rigger, like the normal Technomancer they would be severely limited from the beginning but would grow with Karma.

Actually, I see no reason why teh sprite should remain bound to the drone. The sprite simply "Rigs" the drone, jumping into it full VR and controlling it that way. It can leave the drone if it wants, and do matrix-y things.

True, the sprite would probably be limited due to the lack of programs the technomancer might have due to the amount of other stuff he might need. but would it be possible to have it "chained" to the drone and function as it's own little entity - I'm a bit loathe to use "normal" pilot programs when a Technomancer seems to be able to do the same thing. If one gives it an order to rig the drone and stay there forever then its service would never end, thus it shouldn't leave.

I like multi-purpose archetypes and it seems like the Technomancer might have the potential to become a nice rigger by using only his own abilities (albeit an expensive ones due to the demand of having autosofts as complex forms for its sprites so they can use the drones in question)

There should be an echo equivalent of the control rig.

i could be wrong, but i don't believe there is a control rig in SR4. as far as i know, there's nothing keeping a technomancer from rigging--matter of fact, given their high comm attributes, they'll probably be pretty damn good at it.

There is a Control Rig, but it is optional for rigging and gives +2 die to all vehicle tests including Gunnery.

ah. then, yeah, echo.

Well, it seems that the control rig is necessary according to this: (page 341)

VEHICLES & DRONES
Vehicle attributes are described in Vehicle Combat, p. 158.
Rigger Adaptation: When added to a vehicle, this
“black box” allows a character with a control rig (see p. 331)
to rig the vehicle (see Rigging and Drones, p. 238), either
through a direct fiberoptic cable or wireless link.

And that's the only place where they mention that it is required. If one follows the rules on the other hand there is nothing stopping a Technomancer to create a sprite with a permanent extended service of "living" in the drone by uploading itself completely into it's shell and follow the Technomancers order indefinitely. The technomancer can also have complex form autosofts for the sprites to use and can then be a quite fun Drone rigger, except he cannot rig them himself, he needs to use his little buddies.

Awesome. I'm going to go rig up a dikoted black Trans-Am with a perma-sprite.

The biggest limitation, I think, is that a technomancer is limited to Charisma number of sprites, whereas a rigger is "limited" to System x 2 -- unless he dumps multiple drones into a single subscriber, and then it is potentially unlimited.

The other drawback is the very limited number of autosofts that Machine Sprites get -- one per 3 full levels. Compared to the number that a decently rated pilot program can load, that's not very many.

Still, for a small number of vehicles, it is a good idea -- your personal transport, etc. I'd go with two services though -- "Control" and "Stability" -- being accident and glitch proof is a big help. And if you've got gremlins on the team, it's pretty much mandatory.

I wonder...when you read through the autosoft section it seems that they mean that a pilot program automatically has a pilot rating equal to it's rating, that is, they have the ability to control the device/vehicle they are put into as a skill. That could mean that sprites, as agents, always have the correct skill to drive a drone/vehicle but they need other programs if they want to use for example machineguns or for lockpicking.

Agents are expensive as it is if you need to load up every little skill in order for them to even function as well.

BTW - are complex form litmited to the availability of it's software counterpart or can you begin the game with a pilot program of rating 6?

"Pilot rating" is something different than "Pilot" and applies to the superset, but the very similar name makes it confusing.

Personally i find it dubious that the same Pilot program could function just as well whether it is put in a truck, or a plane, or a boat, much less having a general use Agent do that job. But yes, it isn't particularly clear about what an Agent could do if loaded into a vehicle's computer. Likewise could my Pilot program be used for going out as a good little Matrix cybersoilder or info gatherer? *shrug*

Even with IC what it could do is poorly defined, as are the boundries of what the other 2 could do of it's job.

Going by page 321 Autosoft(6) doesn't exist, at the start or later. Only up to 4. *shrug*

I don't see any reason that a Technomancer wouldn't be able to command drones. They wouldn't be able to jump into them without cyber or a hypothetical echo, but having the Pilots subscribed to the technomancer's 'organic commlink' wouldn't be a problem. They'd likely find interacting with the Pilots to be a bit retro and clunky, but they're still able to command remotely (much like any non-control-rigged hacker and his commlink). No need to upload Sprites into the drone...
EDIT: Curses, scooped!

...although that would be a nice concept for flavour. A technomancer with a Registered sprite-drone! Like D&D Familiars, but with rotor blades!

If you are a technomancer, you are going to have a very difficult time at character creation trying to come up with the requisite skills to be an effective rigger using the default 400 BP, but it can be done. I strongly suggest taking the Essence/Resonance hit and implanting a Control Rig and Datajack, but that's just me (I also suggest implanting 2 points of Cerebral Booster, too, to increase the ever-useful technomancer Logic stat). Even though you can "jump into" a drone without one, the +2 to EVERYTHING (including Gunnery) is too good to pass up.

Your Complex Forms are limited by your Resonance Attribute... if you have a Resonance of 4, all of your Complex Forms have to be 4 or less.

As far as drone rigging, sprites don't "jump into full VR" to control drones just as Agents do not. However, Machine Sprites are well-suited to command and control drones without jumping into them. I'd probably write up a set of house rules to deal with Machine Sprites and drones (or other machines), if I ever ran into that situation.

Well, remeber that "jumping" into a drone is basically going full VR so one should get +2 D6 to all actions, or am i mistaken there? You essentially submerge yourself within the VR enviroment of the drone and leave your body behind.

Well, per se sprites don't "jump into full VR" but unless you want them to loose contact with the drone AND technomancer they need to be in a matrix rich enviroment, thats why i suggested a forced upload of the sprite into the drone itself, so the drone becomes it's private little matrix - makes runs easier when you are in the djungles of kambodia and no matrix access.

BTW the answer to that email i sent should clear up whether a Control Rig is a requirement or not for jumping in. It honestly seem clear to me that it wasn't at the time i wrote the email, but the way the email is worded makes it clear that i don't think a Control Rig is required. So to answer to question posed also answers the Control Rig requirement.

I would think that you wouldn't have to dedicate any resources to giving orders to a drone. It already has an OS in it, designed to accept remote commands and control the drone. (p238) You don't need to stick a sprite in a commlink to make a phone call with it, that's one of the thing's intrinsic functions. Ditto for a drone; you just beam a command to it and it does it, so long as the command is within its parameters. Since I couldn't find anything that tells me otherwise, a technomancer's living persona should be able to subscribe to a number of drones appropriate to a commlink with the same stats, or Logic*2.

What you do need one of those machine sprites for is controlling something that isn't already set up for rigger control. Making an automated car factory turn against the thugs chasing you is outside normal command parameters, so a sprite with Control would be rather helpful for convincing the robotic welding arms that the troll is a car.

So unless I find something that says otherwise in the BBB or the tech book when it comes out, I'd say that Technomancers can give commands to drones and rigged vehicles without any issues or requiring any sprites, up to their maximum subscriber list.

Now, actually getting manual control of the vehicle is another matter, and one that may require a control rig. It certainly needed a rig in SR 1-3 to control a vehicle or drone like your own body, and the wording is kinda poor in SR4. I'd give the Technos a break, though, and let them buy an external control rig that they can hook to with trodes rather than make them screw up their essence with an implanted version.

Giving commands would be no problem at all, I'm more interested in having a sprite controlled drone instead of using agents since agents are a "mundane" program compared to a technomancers sprite. An agent/sprite would be nessecary for the drone to act independently.