Greetings,

I wanted to open the floor to a topic that has always been "wince worthy" with me, the purchase of karma.
Now according to the rules, karma can be purchased or sold for 5000 nuyen per point. Needless to say this is certainly meant in frame of reference to the canon pay scale which quite frankly, is slightly dumber than... hmmm actually that's a tough one, those are some silly pay scales.

5000 for a run? Screw you, I'm gonna become a car thief, easier and far far safer.

But that is neither here nor there, I give you, my problem.

Current rules of 1 pt for 5000 are ludicrous, I'd be buying Karma by the truck load.
Yes, I'm rich.
That's part of my problem.

I have NO use for money. I am a true "street" shaman. I live on the street. I have spells to clean me, clothes me, feel me and heal me, spirits to hide and guard me while I sleep ( just make sure you time it right and don't sleep through dawn or dusk, easy enough, tell the spirit to wake you when the sun begins to rise/set) I have no SIN and no need (I have fakes if I need one).

What I DO with my money is give it away, constantly, I spend my money on total strangers all the frakkin time ( It drives Nova INSANE!! )

My question is, if I'm giving money away hand over fist, aren't I, in a nutshell, buying karma? That's not why I do it, which in fact reinforces it since if you were doing it FOR the karma it wouldn't be quite as selfless.

Everyone else benefits both from the karma they earn and the money they spend to upgrade their bodies. Not that I would ever stick anything in my body I wasn't born with but I have bio-rejection to boot and my order strictly forbids it.

I spend my cash to help others and even then, I still have way too much and have been examining charity scenarios to get rid of it. Should I be awarded karma for all this monkey love?

Your thoughts are sought and welcome.

On a slightly different note, since I would NOT expect to get karma for this idea but let me bounce this one off your heads while I have the floor...

I had this really funny idea the other day. As some of you may or may not know, the percentage of awakened people statistically just doesn't reflect the reality of awakened life. This is because the large majority of beings with the potential never realize they have it and live their mundane life ignorant of their magical potential. The book even goes so far as to single out the barrens as places where people can easily escape detecting their awakened nature. I had already been thinking of opening an orphanage in Puyallup. Get/Buy a building in the barrens but just on the edge near Puyallup City or on the outskirts of it.
I spend pretty much all my free time, patrolling the barrens going from group of squatters to the next, feeding, clothing, cleaning and clothing the homeless, staying in touch with "the word on the street" and fighting a little evil along the way. (Oh I'm sorry? Did you think you could pick on squatters and no one was gonna stand up for them? SOOPRISE BIDGE!!)
As a full shaman, I have the skills to find these potential awakened, and the means and will to train them, teach them to use their powers ( I would get other teachers, I know my order would help )

So I kill 2 birds with one stone. I use my money to help others and I find and take in unawakened kids that have the potential to awaken and teach and train them, hopefully imparting some of the wisdom and kindness of monkey into what could have been far nastier lives growing up in the barrens, magicless.

I dare say the mere thought of it makes me giggle.

Kong

I came into this topic expecting X-Men and was rendered extremely disappointed.

no, he's talking about setting up his very own 'Xavier institute'. Except in the Puyallup Barrens instead of Westchester, and with awakened street-scum instead of an all-star international team of good-looking misfits. He could get them all their own rediculous outfits, use a bunch of Influence spells to ingrain the personality problems, and with a little plastic surgury he could have his X-men up and running.

I awarded 10 gK each to my team after they spent 1.5 mil financing an orphinage/ school. but I'm cheap with the karma, usually 2 per run unless something very valorus happened. (medics always got lots of karma)

Obviously all I need now is a spell... checker.

Kong

Remember, karma for money is an OPTIONAL rule (and a silly one at that). Most GMs ban it as soon as they start their game, right out of the box (gotta keep those ban-aids on hand!)

That said, IF I were allowing them to do that, I would be willing to let them blow a whole lot of money and get SOME karma, up to a maximum amount. 10 per three months is probably the maximum I'd give, and that's after a lot of money and personal work.

well, you are geting some benefit out of your philanthropy, that is the good will of those street folks around you. chances are not one bum in 5km around your doss is going to snitch on you and any one that does will quickly become another sad statistic of the street.

I am one of those GMs that bans karma for cash and cash for karma right out of the box. So I would say no to the whole karma for setting up the school idea.

I would however sort out all the details of the school and go thru you recruiting people and take the time to work things out. And over time you might find yourself doing more work for the school then running. And infact pulling others in as well until your doing "runs" for the school and earning karma.

Of course the question I first have is.. What motivates your monkey out of his comfort zone to go on shadowruns in the first place. It seems he can spend all his life with out ever having to go on a single shadowrun, so why does he ?

The way I see it, buying and selling Karma is exactly that. You get in touch with your fixer and tell him that you want some karma. Your fixer, in turn, contacts a karma broker. Some money is transfered and some rituals are preformed and BAM, you get someone's karma and someone gets your money. The karma broker takes a cut of both off the top, of course.

Karma brokering services would be most popular with Free Spirits to whom karma is often a commodity far more valuable than money or precious minerals.
I'd venture to say that most karma brokers are enterprising Free Spirits as are most buyers.

As for the X-men idea, your professor will have his work cut out for him keeping the local gangers in check. Criminal orginizations that don't want competition will the biggest opponets of the school in the beginning. When the first class graduates into a team of elite yet SINless magi you'll have problems with more powerful groups.
Remember, the X-men were generally seen as dangerous criminals by the powers that be.

I look at the money for karma and karma for money thing i little deferent.

I let someone use karma for money ONCE in the life of there character. you won the lottery grats.

If you are spending money for karma i have two options.
1. You blow a 5k per point up to 5 points. Give me a good story as to why you get karma for this. and it is ear marked to be spent in only 1 place. (you bail someone out of jail and you got a favor out of it)
2. You buy an infrastructure of some sort and it is easer for you to learn something.(you lay down 50k for your own dojo athletic and martial arts 10% reduction to improve) or something like that. and you have to up grade the facility to use the reducton again.

Eh eh, my GM makes a good point about how else would I pay for all this but alas no, that is not why I run the shadows.

I run the shadows because of Nova.

Kirk Hamilton was a good cop. In a sea of corrupt and petty city officials he genuinely gave a crap about people. Then one day, some polyclub jackoffs, who weren't too happy with a series of arrests Officer Hamilton had performed, decided to send him a message, they murdered his sister.

Kirk Hamilton tracked them down, found their meeting hall. Killed the guards at the door and sent a few grenades into the room to announce his arrival. He came in with twin Ingrams and mowed every living thing in that room to the ground.

"Lone Star Cop goes Nova!" read the headlines.

Psyche evaluations and public brouhaha ended his career and now he runs the shadows.

I've seen what street life can do to a person, I've seen the easy and steady decline of morality and the eventual surrender to the evil of desperation and convenience. I can't let the polyclub win, not ever. So I befriended this man, and he wasn't so foolish as to ignore the fact he needed magical support.
So, I run the shadows. I pick my jobs carefully and by association, Novas as well. I try to keep him on the right path, make sure he never forgets he's one of the good guys. It's hard work.

Why am I obsessed with the polyclub? I have an intolerance to biggots and bullies and the entire reason I grew up on the streets is because on the Night of Rage, I watched them come into the store my parents operated in Puyallup City. I watched them murder Cindy, that nice Orcish girl who used to stock the shelves. I watched them murder my parents who tried to defend her and I, only 5 years old, could do nothing. They left me there, a child alone in a burning building, to die.

A nice Talismonger named Ray found me and took me in, raised me till the age of 12 when my magical abilities manifested. Ray then trained me and after that, I had everything I needed to survive.

Needless to say, I have a special place in my heart for biggots, which makes the Humanis Polyclub just about my favoritest people evar!

Didn't mean to launch into my history there, but someone asked why I ran the shadows and it's a long story... as you can see.

Meanwhile back on topic... (sorry bout that)

Please note I specifically said if I went with the school idea I did NOT expect to get any karma for it as it is pretty much well it's own reward.

I was asking about the money for karma as it relates to me giving away my money to charity.

Kong

As mentioned in an earlier thread, When several of the characters in my group decided to donate a sizeable sum to an NPC's refugee relief foundation I "adjusted" their individual karma awards appropriately at the end of the segment. The flip side is they all now have her as a permanent level 2 contact (read, occasional dependent).

Personally, I've always felt that the "Karma for Cash" rules should only apply to an "amoral" campaign.

A good example would be a Mafia or campaign. You spend your time running around breaking people's knee caps, eliminating witnesses, and setting car bombs. How would you justify getting karma for killing a snitch's entire family?

That's where the "amoral" campaing comes into play. Instead of karma, you earn money. You can then use the money to buy karma, and advance your character as normal. I also like the variable cost for the karma, as it keeps things interesting.

For a normal campaign, I'd be a little more hesitant to allow characters to buy their karma, especially characters that don't have much use for money. That's just my take on the "Karma for Cash" rules.

I don't like karma for cash most of all because - as the OP's example shows - many awakened archetypes can get away with very low cash expenditures, compared to cyber-oriented characters. (while they certainly can find things to spend money on, it's not nearly as vital that they do) If they were able to spend the money they don't need very much on even more karma to initiate with, the divide in terms of growth potential between them and the cyber-monkeys would only get worse.

Set a high cash to karma ratio. Instead of widening the discrepancy between the growth rates of the awakened and the mundane, it'll narrow it.

Actually I don't believe 'g' is used for noting pwers of 10. 'G' is and in that case 10 G karma would have been 10,000,000,000 karma. G=10^9.

So would doing both in one night even out?