I downloaded an excel sheet that automatically calculates things, and there was some math on it that confused me.
basically, if your base essense loss from cyberware was less than your essense loss from bioware, the cyberware essense loss was divided by 2. (e27 on the cyberware_bioware tab)
so if you had 1 essense in bioware, and .5 from cyber (eyes and ears say), your total essense loss is 1.25.
I couldn't find this in the rules, is this official? do you have a page number?
Full Version: Essense Cost of c- and bio- ware
Yup, that's the deal. Page 84, one paragraph down the right hand column.
BTW if you have the Sensitive System Quality this board had a discussion about this and it was generally concluded that you double the cyberware essense before determining which essense is less. If it is the Chargen.XLS sheet you have that's how it works. I don't know about the other sheets.
Note: It doesn't really say in RAW which to 1/2 if they are equal, but in the end it doesn't really matter either.
BTW if you have the Sensitive System Quality this board had a discussion about this and it was generally concluded that you double the cyberware essense before determining which essense is less. If it is the Chargen.XLS sheet you have that's how it works. I don't know about the other sheets.
Note: It doesn't really say in RAW which to 1/2 if they are equal, but in the end it doesn't really matter either.
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p84) |
| Essence losses from cyberware and bioware are tracked separately. Only the higher of the two totals deducts from Essence in full, with the other deducting at half. For example, if a character has an Essence loss of 1.5 from cyberware and 2.5 from bioware, then the character’s Essence is 6 – 2.5 (full bioware) – 0.75 (half cyberware), or 2.75. Players should keep track of both, as it’s possible one can outpace the other as the character implants more cyber or bio into his body. |
Son of a bitch! Hadn't seen that one! Thanks!
the part of this rule that needs a faq, is what happens if you upgrade, and change which of the two is higher? you never get essence back, and they track the two seperately.
That's already been answered:
| QUOTE (SR4 @ page 84) |
| Players should keep track of both, as it’s possible one can outpace the other as the character implants more cyber or bio into his body. |
Your Essence is at any time edit: 6 - (highest of cyber or bio) - (lowest of cyber or bio)/2. Note that the SR4 rules strongly imply in several places (but don't actually state) that removing cyber simply gives you the essence back. Of course, in other places it is strongly implied (though again not stated) that essence is never returned to you.
But regardless, if the character in the example picked up another 1.5 Essence of Cyberware, their Essence would drop to 1.75. Now, what their Essence would be if they removed 1.5 points of Bioware is anybody's guess. But as long as you keep adding ware the way things work is pretty clear.
-Frank
you mean
6 - highest (cyber/bio) -1/2 of lower of (cyber or bio)
I'm pretty sure I read specifically that you don't get it back, but you can fill the hole it left with something else
6 - highest (cyber/bio) -1/2 of lower of (cyber or bio)
I'm pretty sure I read specifically that you don't get it back, but you can fill the hole it left with something else
| QUOTE (ogbendog) |
| I'm pretty sure I read specifically that you don't get it back, but you can fill the hole it left with something else |
You did. In SR3. That rule is conspicuously absent from SR4. This means that some people say:
OMG! YOU GETZ YOUR ESSENCE BACK WHEN YOU REMOVE CYBERZ!
and some people say:
OMG! YOU CAN'T REPLACE YOUR CYBERZ ANYMORE!?
The fact is, it just doesn't say. The old rules were so complicated that few people understood them well anough to understand that they were houseruling them for simplicity. In keeping with SR4's design goal to make things simpler for people, it almost certainly will have a new simpler rule when they actually write it explicitly in Augmentation. Until then, pick one:
1. A character's essence bounces back as soon as offending cyber is removed (allowing the fluff about temporary cyber arms to make any sense at all).
2. A character's essence never bounces back (in keeping with the Vampire fluff).
3. A character's essence does not bounce back, but cyberware only reduces your essence if the current essence cost is more than 6 - your current essence (encouraging drug addicts to get cyberware, oddly enough).
4. A character's essence bounces back at some slowish rate (perhaps Willpower based healing checks?)
-Frank
that 3 is one messy option 
And the way most of us handled it 3rd ed. I kinda like that one, but i'm also down with being able to regain your essence after the ware is removed with some effort. And by effort I mean karma. I think a character could pay karma to increase their essence back to six as if it were a normal attribute. However, one could only do it after they had removed the offending implants, or kicked the addiction.
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
| I think a character could pay karma to increase their essence back to six as if it were a normal attribute. However, one could only do it after they had removed the offending implants, or kicked the addiction. |
I'd be comfortable with that both mechanically and thematically.
Fractional Essence costs could be handled easier than perhaps expected. If you have a 4.32 Essence, then you're wanting to raise it to a 5 and would have to spend 15. Your net gain wouldn't be a whole point, but subsequent raises wouldn't have that "initial hump" problem.
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