Vaevictis
Nov 4 2005, 09:23 PM
Maybe this has already been brought up, but after spending about an hour trying to cram enough skills/cash/attributes into a build to create a combat decker, something occured to me.
It is possible to default to computer, cybercombat, hacking, and data search from logic at a -1 die pool penalty. (Electronic Warfare and Software are not "defaultable")
With normal skills, this is a big deal, because not only do you lose one die from the pool, but you also don't get the benefit of the dice from the linked skill. However, for purposes of the virtual world, the dice pool for all of these skills is a summation of the skill and a program, not the skill and an attribute.
Now think upon this for a moment. It is entirely possible to create a decker type character without investing a single point in any of these skills. Instead, max out your logic, buy a cerebral booster, and voila, you can have a character with an effective hacking/cybercombat/computer/data search of *seven* to start with without ever having spent a build point on skills, and you still get the benefit of your programs adding to your dice pool.
Other than the fact that this only works in the virtual world (for example, analyzing whether a computer is physically functional does take computer+logic), am I missing something? Surely I must be.
Slacker
Nov 4 2005, 09:30 PM
It doesn't explicitly say anywhere, but as I am sure others will chime in agreement, you can't default on matrix tests.
You don't have the program = you can't attempt the task; you don't have the skill = you can't attempt the tasks.
The attribute is not used at all in matrix tests.
SMDVogrin
Nov 4 2005, 09:31 PM
I would say one of two possible objection applies.
1. Since a Skill+Program roll has no "linked attribute", you may not default.
2. Since the definition of a skill test on pg 54 defines a test as Skill + Linked Attribute + modifiers, the Program rating becomes the Linked Attribute for Skill+Program tests. Thus, you can default, but your dice pool will be Program-1.
Vaevictis
Nov 4 2005, 09:39 PM
| QUOTE (Slacker) |
| It doesn't explicitly say anywhere, but as I am sure others will chime in agreement, you can't default on matrix tests. |
Well, looking at the table on p111, it has a list of skills, with the ones you can't default on italicized. Computer, Cybercombat, Data Search and Hacking are not italicized. Software and Electronic Warfare are.
It also *explicitly* says in the skill descriptions (p123-124) for computer, cybercombat, data search and hacking that you can default.
Now, where else is cybercombat used but in the matrix? That would suggest to me that absent a statement in the book to the contrary, you can default in the matrix.
| QUOTE (SMDVogrin) |
2. Since the definition of a skill test on pg 54 defines a test as Skill + Linked Attribute + modifiers, the Program rating becomes the Linked Attribute for Skill+Program tests. Thus, you can default, but your dice pool will be Program-1. |
I'll disagree with your first point, but #2 is a very interesting point of view, and possibly a good comprimise as a house rule.
I think it's still a bit snarly due to the table on p111, however, as for cybercombat, the linked attribute is still explicitly stated as logic.
Liper
Nov 4 2005, 09:40 PM
einstien with no training would not be able to do anything in the matrix, arguably one of the strongest logics in history =p
So that should answer the default, can I munchkin question =p
Rotbart van Dainig
Nov 4 2005, 09:41 PM
Programs can run on their own - but then, they only use their rating.
Vaevictis
Nov 4 2005, 09:50 PM
| QUOTE (Liper) |
| einstien with no training would not be able to do anything in the matrix, arguably one of the strongest logics in history =p |
Keep in mind that Einstein would also have the an "Unaware" rating for matrix skills, given the time frame he lived in.
Would Einstein born in 2065 have an unaware rating? Probably not, so maybe he really could default.
SMDVogrin
Nov 4 2005, 10:01 PM
| QUOTE (Vaevictis) |
| QUOTE (SMDVogrin) |
2. Since the definition of a skill test on pg 54 defines a test as Skill + Linked Attribute + modifiers, the Program rating becomes the Linked Attribute for Skill+Program tests. Thus, you can default, but your dice pool will be Program-1. |
I'll disagree with your first point, but #2 is a very interesting point of view, and possibly a good comprimise as a house rule.
I think it's still a bit snarly due to the table on p111, however, as for cybercombat, the linked attribute is still explicitly stated as logic.
|
Sure, the linked attribute is listed as Logic on Pg 111.
So? Page 54 explicitly states: "When a gamemaster calls for a test, he will provide the player with a description of the task and which skill (and linked attribute) is most appropriate."
So the GM can choose what linked attribute is appropriate. Now, to be helpful, the rulebook provides linked attributes for common tests.
For example, on pg. 218, we are told that "When you are dealing with a particular device, you roll Computer + Logic". Thus, Computer is the skill, and Logic is the attribute.
One sentence later, we are told "When you are utilizing a particular program, you roll Computer + Program Rating". Thus, the rulebook says that "Program Rating" is the linked attribute for these tests.
Pg. 111 is obviously not a definitive listing. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a Swimming+Willpower test for holding your breath. After all, the linked attribute is explicitly stated as Strength.
Vaevictis
Nov 4 2005, 10:25 PM
Ah hah. To get more to the heart of the matter, see page 208 under Matrix Tests: "... except that since you are interfacing with the machine world, you use an appropriate device or program attribute in place of your character's attribute."
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